Fictional Universe

[BPS]

Way back on 11/25/2005 we read on Markus' blog http://www.ootpbaseball2006.com/blog...news=view&id=5 :

But the best is that you can have AS MANY LEAGUES AS YOU LIKE in your baseball universe. I think this may be the right time to bury the saying ‘how’s your OOTP league going?’ – it’s got to be ‘how’s your OOTP baseball world going?’ from now on....

Now, you may ask, how does this all work, how does the game know which leagues are stronger, which weaker? ...The player creation modifiers from previous versions are back, but we have added more modifiers which we call ‘MLB equivalencies’.

Recap: It is a BIG DEAL, we are told, that OOTP2006 will allow you to create your own baseball universe. This requires, obviously, that OOTP knows which leagues are stronger and which are weaker. How does OOTP accomplish that?: the use of MLEs.

But it appears that no one is able to understand MLEs and their role because either MLEs are broken or no one has told OOTP players how they are supposed to (and do) work.

So, therefore, the above "BIG DEAL" of creating your own baseball universe is not possible.

No one officially associated with OOTP has responded to complaints about MLEs, etc., although they must obviously be aware of complaints. This suggests to me that the whole PCM/MLE algorhtym in OOTP2006 is so FUBAR that the OOTP team has decided it is best just to start over and try to fix it in the 2007 version. (FUBAR = "fowled (sic) up beyond all recognition") In the mean time they seem to plan just to say nothing about the problem with OOTP2006 because, well, it's kinda embarrassing that things are so messed up with MLEs.

But...but...but...you might say, wasn't OOTP2006 sold on the promise of the BIG DEAL of a massive fictional universe and such universes are not really possible with the FUBAR MLEs?

Caveat Emptor

[eriqjaffe]

in before lock!

[eswan9]

My first IBTL

[Raidergoo]

Why disrespect BPS in this fashion?

[Mister Bogart]

I have to say this thread did not live up to expectations. FUBAR would be a totally cool name for a fictional league. The Fictional Universe Baseball Association Republic.

- Bogey
Member of the FUBAR:Fictional Baseball League

[His Own Bad Self]

I'm a little confused about the question, actually. I just skimmed over f.montoya's thread from last month...

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=122241

...and it seemed that there was a general understanding of how they should work. What's the real problem, aside from a lack of an official response? Is it that no one really knows how MLEs work yet, or that they're not working in practice like they should?

[Carplos]

Is it that no one really knows how MLEs work yet, or that they're not working in practice like they should?

They're not working like you would think if you read the Game Guide.

It sounds like they're working as they were programmed to however, judging by montoya's comments, along with Markus' (brief) response in a thread in technical questions.

It is entirely possible to set up a huge (or small) universe using MLEs, although it seems better to use PCMs for more precise manipulations. I've found you'll need to mess with league totals more with the PCM method, though. MLEs seem most applicable in the initial creation for leagues with minors.

[BPS]

Originally Posted by jdawgsenior

Is it that no one really knows how MLEs work yet, or that they're not working in practice like they should?

No one knows how they work or how they are supposed to work. Almost everyone who plays around with MLEs find that they are broken (if what the manual says is taken at face value). Almost everytime some says, "this is how they work" it turns out they don't work that way.

No offical response.

But most people are only interested, it appears, in MLB/USA universes and so they never encounter the strange operation of MLEs when multinations/independent leagues are used.

No functioning/understood MLEs --> no functioning baseball universes --> Caveat Emptor

[fauteuil7]

Originally Posted by Carplos

It is entirely possible to set up a huge (or small) universe using MLEs, although it seems better to use PCMs for more precise manipulations. I've found you'll need to mess with league totals more with the PCM method, though. MLEs seem most applicable in the initial creation for leagues with minors.

I've been using a combination of the two myself, and have gotten results pretty close to what I was looking for.

The real point of this thread is somewhat different though. Most of the OOTP games have not been enjoyable "out of the box" because they each have had mystifying features which usually take the message board community a while to figure out how to tweak to the point of getting what you want from the game. Lots of experimentation, lots of shots in the dark, and then eventually a Papal Decree putting us straight(-ish). It would be so easy in this version for SI to release a bunch of quickstart files that would line up with different eras of baseball. I don't think the system's FUBAR, just a little difficult, and some help would be appreciated.

[BPS]

Originally Posted by Carplos

It sounds like they're working as they were programmed to however, judging by montoya's comments, along with Markus' (brief) response in a thread in technical questions.

Montoya's claims in the relevant thread appear to have been rejected by most thread participants as not consistent with how MLEs actually did work in the game so it's hard to know if "they're working as they were programmed."

[endgame]

I'll only add at this point an observation. BPS doesn't ask any questions in his post other than those that are rhetorical in nature. He's making a point, and most certainly not asking for all of us to join in and re-create the substance (or lack thereof) in the once much visited MLE thread. He wants an official response or statement from Markus. Pure and simple. His aim is furthering his (and presumably others') clarification of what he maintains is ambiguous at best. Leave it at that. Let him "make his statement." He's simply waiting and wanting Markus to make one as well. Further contributions are futile, IMHO.

Edit: Not that *I* understand them at all , just trying to ensure the direction of the thread doesn't become oppositional. Rough as he sounds, that's not really his intention.

[His Own Bad Self]

Originally Posted by BPS

No one knows how they work or how they are supposed to work. Almost everyone who plays around with MLEs find that they are broken (if what the manual says is taken at face value). Almost everytime some says, "this is how they work" it turns out they don't work that way.

No offical response.

But most people are only interested, it appears, in MLB/USA universes and so they never encounter the strange operation of MLEs when multinations/independent leagues are used.

No functioning/understood MLEs --> no functioning baseball universes --> Caveat Emptor

Well, I just started a world of fourteen independent major leagues, all with different MLEs. If the system's FUBAR as you say, so be it - I'll find that out in due time. But the limited test runs I've given the game using different MLEs haven't given me any reason to think they don't work.

Caveat emptor, indeed, but I was already prepared for glitches such as this (if in fact it doesn't work).

[sovereignstar]

Count me in as someone who wants to know what's going on here. I've made a template (that I can hopefully use some day) which contains my own MLB setup (with 4 levels of minors) and a custom independent Northern League. I was going by the manual, so I only modified the MLE's for the NL to be numbers in between what the Single A and Double A minors are given in the fictional quickstart. Also, there is a 2-round draft for this league. I figured that I was set. Apparently not.

[BPS]

Originally Posted by fauteuil7

Most of the OOTP games have not been enjoyable "out of the box" because they each have had mystifying features which usually take the message board community a while to figure out how to tweak to the point of getting what you want from the game.

Why doesn't Markus just TELL people how they are supposed to work?

A multi-nation baseball universe is central to this version of OOTP (unlike, say, clutch hitting was in an earlier version of OOTP) and not something that users should not have to figure out for themselves.

The use of MLEs, etc, should not be something that folks have to mess with for weeks to gain their own private knowledge about (which doesn't help others playing the game): e.g., someone might say, "I messed around with PCMs/MLEs/development for a week and eventually found, for my particular league configuration, what I wanted. You too must do the same thing, sorry! What, you don't have the time or are offended that you have to do this to play a game you bought? All I can say is, buyer beware!"

[The Wolf]

I'd like to know myself.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by BPS

Why doesn't Markus just TELL people how they are supposed to work?

Great. Now you've opened the door to a new discussion. You had to ask a question.

[D Love]

Originally Posted by BPS

Why doesn't Markus just TELL people how they are supposed to work?

What fun would that be? It's like the league totals in prior versions of OOTP (and perhaps this one too) where you lower the value to increase the occurrence of the stat... totally counterintuitive and nonsensical from a layman's point of view, but somehow no one in charge ever felt it needed to be properly explained other than "lower the number to raise the occurrence of the stat".

If you think about it too much, it'll just hurt your head.

[Carplos]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Count me in as someone who wants to know what's going on here. I've made a template (that I can hopefully use some day) which contains my own MLB setup (with 4 levels of minors) and a custom independent Northern League. I was going by the manual, so I only modified the MLE's for the NL to be numbers in between what the Single A and Double A minors are given in the fictional quickstart. Also, there is a 2-round draft for this league. I figured that I was set. Apparently not.

Have you attempted to start a league as it is? It should give you what you want (without knowing any more specifics.)

The only possibly issue is that MLEs aren't an exact % (which it says in the game guide, I believe) so your NL ratings might be a bit higher than you expect. (But with a template, it should be easy to mess with.)

[Carplos]

The use of MLEs, etc, should not be something that folks have to mess with for weeks to gain their own private knowledge about (which doesn't help others playing the game): e.g., someone might say, "I messed around with PCMs/MLEs/development for a week and eventually found, for my particular league configuration, what I wanted. You too must do the same thing, sorry! What, you don't have the time or are offended that you have to do this to play a game you bought? All I can say is, buyer beware!"

I'm not saying someone shouldn't come out and clear the air here--but it shouldn't take you very long to be ablee to figure out how to set them up for your universe.

Certainly less than the month and a half you've been waiting for an official answer...

[BPS]

Funny... someone took the time to cut the "FUBAR" from the thread title but not the time to say anything in the thread itself.

Sigh...