AI signing minor league MRs still an issue?

sovereignstar · 07-14-2006, 04:38 PM

I made a league using Tiger Fan's Fictional 30's League Template and am noticing an obsurd amount of middle relievers being released by every team in the league on the 1st of each month.

The league setup looks like this (if it helps):

Use of relievers: rarely
Use of closers: rarely
Pitcher endurance: normal
Typical rotation size: 4 man

Also, there are 3 levels of minors and I've noticed that there are roughly 3x as many middle relievers in the league than starters. Here are some sample transaction pages for one team.

http://suicane.com/jeffsdirlol/team_...ns_5_1943.html
http://suicane.com/jeffsdirlol/team_...ns_6_1943.html
http://suicane.com/jeffsdirlol/team_...ns_7_1943.html
http://suicane.com/jeffsdirlol/team_...ns_8_1943.html

f.montoya · 07-15-2006, 09:17 AM

From what Markus has said, the title of "Middle Reliever" is just a tag. In which case, I'm wondering if these releases have some logic behind them or are they totally defying logic? The reason I ask is because the 1930's also doesn't use middle relievers very much thus these players could be of lower value to the A.I. because they are not starters. Now this does is not to suggest that all is right, in fact I'm wondering if the settings "Rarely" use middle relievers results in such treatment of players "tagged" with the title "middle reliever", however unjustly.

bibs · 07-16-2006, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f.montoya

From what Markus has said, the title of "Middle Reliever" is just a tag. In which case, I'm wondering if these releases have some logic behind them or are they totally defying logic? The reason I ask is because the 1930's also doesn't use middle relievers very much thus these players could be of lower value to the A.I. because they are not starters. Now this does is not to suggest that all is right, in fact I'm wondering if the settings "Rarely" use middle relievers results in such treatment of players "tagged" with the title "middle reliever", however unjustly.

It certainly defies logic to release all of those MR on the 1st, and then sign a buch of them over the next week. You should look at the files he provided.

Carplos · 07-20-2006, 06:29 AM

Okay, so far I've only tested around with pre-patch leagues, but teams still sign a significant number of MRs (or rather, former SPs)... the good news is that the AI keeps a much more managable number of players at their lowest levels by cutting the extra baggage. The bad news a lot of the extra baggage is often the MRs they just signed the week or two before, so it still leads to many SP/MR signing, being cut, signing, etc within the same year. So far I haven't noticed these signings getting actual good prospects cut yet, at least.

Like I said, this is based off of pre-patch created leagues... but the roster management seems to have taken effect. Creating a new MAL quickstart would just be like loading a pre-patch league. Has anyone else with a post-patch league (ideally in similar size; it happens in smaller leagues, but not nearly as noticable from my experience) noticed this still?

sovereignstar · 07-20-2006, 11:23 AM

Is this what you're talking about? My league was using the latest public build at the time.

http://ootpdevelopments.com/board/sh...d.php?t=127233

battists · 07-20-2006, 04:51 PM

With the new patch released today, could you please try this and see if the MR-mania persists?

Thanks,

Steve

akw4572 · 07-21-2006, 09:49 PM

I've seen ALOT of minor league fa's (guys getting signed to minor league deals) signing with teams around the 20th of the month, then being released in the first week or two of the next month. And I mean ALOT.

Carplos · 07-21-2006, 10:32 PM

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=127746

That's what I'm talking about in that thread, basically. As is the link to the other thread.

akw4572 · 07-22-2006, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

With the new patch released today, could you please try this and see if the MR-mania persists?

Thanks,

Steve

Yes it does.........especially with players signed to minor league deals. I see alot signed around the 20th of each month, only to be released during the following month's first week.

battists · 07-24-2006, 02:20 PM

Sorry to dredge this up again, but how is this looking in the latest patch?

battists · 07-24-2006, 03:56 PM

I'm going to merge this thread with this one:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=127746

battists · 07-24-2006, 03:56 PM

And, once again, just looking for some more data on how this is looking in the most recent patch.

Carplos · 07-24-2006, 04:36 PM

It's doing what akw is saying--even with the most recent WIP patch (60). Like I said initially in the thread, the roster management is better... but they still sign a number of MR (many with high endurance--hence former SP). Then when the AI makes a bunch of roster cuts in a week or two--to keep roster size down (which is good), it cuts most of them.

Obviously the AI shouldn't stop signing minor league FA altogether, but if the signings will put the bottom level of the organization at a size where it will need to cut players, it probably shouldn't sign them--especially if the player is just going to be fodder at that level. (The AI should still sign actual prospects if they're available or higher level minor league free agents---my concern here is that adjustments on the part of Markus may mess around with other parts of the AI I think are good.)

It really seems like the AI is overrating MRs with high endurance. The ones that are kept generally are kept only because thye were good enough to be put into the rotation as a SP.

battists · 08-11-2006, 11:10 PM

*sigh*

One more try. Still the same in 12262?

Steve

John · 08-12-2006, 06:53 AM

yes, still the same in xxx62

AI loads up on all of the Free Agent Pitchers, bloating the Rookie level minors. then releases them. The signs them again. Rinse and repeat.

Just check out the lowest level minor league rosters around the end of the second month of the season, and check the free agent lists and its fairly obvious.

battists · 08-12-2006, 08:39 AM

Grr! Can you explain what your league setup is? I'd like to try the same thing.

John · 08-12-2006, 10:10 AM

Game created from a template that was created after the xxx62 patch

Major League, 2 subleagues, each with 2 divisions of 6 teams (24 teams total)
Similar setup for the minors... a 3A, 2A, 1A and R level "league" with each major league team owning one minor team, at each level

International League (Mexico) - 1 league, no sub-league or divisions, full compliment of minors (3A, 2A, 1A, and R)

financials at .430 (with some additional manual scaling)

PCM's at 1 (Mexican League at .900)
MLE at the Sim defaults

the current Sim (sim date is 7/17/47, second year of the league) right now reflects a free agent pool of 891 hitters and 15, fifteen, pitchers... all of the "excess" pitchers are sitting on the Rookie level rosters. The pitchers seem to be added, and then released, throughout the season.

I seem to be incapable (user inadequacy...

) of capturing screen shots or attachments that fit the size limits for the forum, but if there is anything else I can do please let me know.

Carplos · 08-14-2006, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

*sigh*

One more try. Still the same in 12262?

Steve

From my experience, yes. My post from 7/24 (right above yours) still sums it up, IMO. Again, I like the size the lower levels are kept at now, but it still signs players and then decides to keep the roster more manageable and releases a bunch of them just a week or two later.

Personally, the way I would like it to work is just to have the AI not sign players at the lower levels if the rosters are at a size where they're likely to cut players--unless a player's current/potential ratings actually suggest it may move up at some point.

I still think it's related to the AI somewhat overrating MRs with high endurance . The players that are kept when signed are those who were good enough to crack the rotation and stay as SPs.

Again, my only concern is this will be "overcorrected" and it will screw up minor league FA signings on higher levels, or in leagues with no drafts and rookie free agents.

battists · 08-19-2006, 10:16 PM

OK, I've logged this one again, as TT # 2510. Hopefully Markus can take another look at this for the 1.0.3 patch.

Thanks,

Steve

07-14-2006, 04:38 PM	#1
sovereignstar Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 263	AI signing minor league MRs still an issue? I made a league using Tiger Fan's Fictional 30's League Template and am noticing an obsurd amount of middle relievers being released by every team in the league on the 1st of each month. The league setup looks like this (if it helps): Use of relievers: rarely Use of closers: rarely Pitcher endurance: normal Typical rotation size: 4 man Also, there are 3 levels of minors and I've noticed that there are roughly 3x as many middle relievers in the league than starters. Here are some sample transaction pages for one team. http://suicane.com/jeffsdirlol/team_...ns_5_1943.html http://suicane.com/jeffsdirlol/team_...ns_6_1943.html http://suicane.com/jeffsdirlol/team_...ns_7_1943.html http://suicane.com/jeffsdirlol/team_...ns_8_1943.html

07-15-2006, 09:17 AM	#2
f.montoya Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,077	From what Markus has said, the title of "Middle Reliever" is just a tag. In which case, I'm wondering if these releases have some logic behind them or are they totally defying logic? The reason I ask is because the 1930's also doesn't use middle relievers very much thus these players could be of lower value to the A.I. because they are not starters. Now this does is not to suggest that all is right, in fact I'm wondering if the settings "Rarely" use middle relievers results in such treatment of players "tagged" with the title "middle reliever", however unjustly. __________________ Fidel Montoya Asahi2 Baseball League ex-Commissioner(Historical League Since 2004) Ex-Web Host Current Mod Maker??

07-20-2006, 06:29 AM	#4
Carplos Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,896 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	AI signing minor league MRs still an issue? Okay, so far I've only tested around with pre-patch leagues, but teams still sign a significant number of MRs (or rather, former SPs)... the good news is that the AI keeps a much more managable number of players at their lowest levels by cutting the extra baggage. The bad news a lot of the extra baggage is often the MRs they just signed the week or two before, so it still leads to many SP/MR signing, being cut, signing, etc within the same year. So far I haven't noticed these signings getting actual good prospects cut yet, at least. Like I said, this is based off of pre-patch created leagues... but the roster management seems to have taken effect. Creating a new MAL quickstart would just be like loading a pre-patch league. Has anyone else with a post-patch league (ideally in similar size; it happens in smaller leagues, but not nearly as noticable from my experience) noticed this still?

07-21-2006, 09:49 PM	#7
akw4572 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 2,601	in season minor league fa's I've seen ALOT of minor league fa's (guys getting signed to minor league deals) signing with teams around the 20th of the month, then being released in the first week or two of the next month. And I mean ALOT.

07-20-2006, 11:23 AM	#5
sovereignstar Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 263	Is this what you're talking about? My league was using the latest public build at the time. http://ootpdevelopments.com/board/sh...d.php?t=127233

07-20-2006, 04:51 PM	#6
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	With the new patch released today, could you please try this and see if the MR-mania persists? Thanks, Steve

07-21-2006, 10:32 PM	#8
Carplos Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,896 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=127746 That's what I'm talking about in that thread, basically. As is the link to the other thread.

07-24-2006, 02:20 PM	#10
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	Sorry to dredge this up again, but how is this looking in the latest patch?

07-24-2006, 03:56 PM	#11
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	I'm going to merge this thread with this one: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=127746

07-24-2006, 04:36 PM	#13
Carplos Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,896 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	It's doing what akw is saying--even with the most recent WIP patch (60). Like I said initially in the thread, the roster management is better... but they still sign a number of MR (many with high endurance--hence former SP). Then when the AI makes a bunch of roster cuts in a week or two--to keep roster size down (which is good), it cuts most of them. Obviously the AI shouldn't stop signing minor league FA altogether, but if the signings will put the bottom level of the organization at a size where it will need to cut players, it probably shouldn't sign them--especially if the player is just going to be fodder at that level. (The AI should still sign actual prospects if they're available or higher level minor league free agents---my concern here is that adjustments on the part of Markus may mess around with other parts of the AI I think are good.) It really seems like the AI is overrating MRs with high endurance. The ones that are kept generally are kept only because thye were good enough to be put into the rotation as a SP.

08-11-2006, 11:10 PM	#14
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	sigh One more try. Still the same in 12262? Steve

08-12-2006, 06:53 AM	#15
John Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 186	yes, still the same in xxx62 AI loads up on all of the Free Agent Pitchers, bloating the Rookie level minors. then releases them. The signs them again. Rinse and repeat. Just check out the lowest level minor league rosters around the end of the second month of the season, and check the free agent lists and its fairly obvious.

08-12-2006, 08:39 AM	#16
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	Grr! Can you explain what your league setup is? I'd like to try the same thing.

08-12-2006, 10:10 AM	#17
John Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 186	Game created from a template that was created after the xxx62 patch Major League, 2 subleagues, each with 2 divisions of 6 teams (24 teams total) Similar setup for the minors... a 3A, 2A, 1A and R level "league" with each major league team owning one minor team, at each level International League (Mexico) - 1 league, no sub-league or divisions, full compliment of minors (3A, 2A, 1A, and R) financials at .430 (with some additional manual scaling) PCM's at 1 (Mexican League at .900) MLE at the Sim defaults the current Sim (sim date is 7/17/47, second year of the league) right now reflects a free agent pool of 891 hitters and 15, fifteen, pitchers... all of the "excess" pitchers are sitting on the Rookie level rosters. The pitchers seem to be added, and then released, throughout the season. I seem to be incapable (user inadequacy... ) of capturing screen shots or attachments that fit the size limits for the forum, but if there is anything else I can do please let me know.

08-19-2006, 10:16 PM	#19
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	OK, I've logged this one again, as TT # 2510. Hopefully Markus can take another look at this for the 1.0.3 patch. Thanks, Steve