Feedback Needed! AI Changing My Roster/Lineups/Depth Charts!

battists · 07-13-2006, 10:51 AM

OK, I need your feedback!

Many of you are experiencing a bug where the AI is making unwanted changes to your roster, lineups, or depth charts. I am determined to squash this elusive brat in the next patch.

What I need to know are specific scenarios that you can replicate wherein the AI always seems to make changes.

For example: "If I change the depth charts of my AAA affiliate and sim a day, the AI has changed them back."

The example I just cited was an issue, and I have confirmed that it will be fixed in the next patch. But, I'm fairly sure there are some other scenarios out there. The more specific, replicable scenarios you can provide, the harder I can test to make sure they are resolved! Please include details about your basic league configuration! ("1977 Lahman with AAA", or "MAL standard," etc...)

Thanks!

Steve

Cooker · 07-13-2006, 11:38 AM

Steve, I've noticed that in my minor leagues (human-controlled fictional league team where I'm the GM) if I set the lineups and depth-charts for minor league players to play other than their existing primary positions (i.e., to learn new positions), the AI nonetheless puts them back to their primary listed position.

For example, in my fictional league (created using the in-game Quick-Start) I have a AAA prospect named Tom Sanders who's listed as a RF. He's rated 84 (on a 100 point scale) in RF. I want him to learn CF, so I made that change in my AAA team lineups and depth-charts. A couple days later I go back and check and he's shown in the lineups and depth-charts as playing RF. This has happened several times; I keep making the change over and over.

So Sanders has played some in CF (the AI doesn't seem to change him back to RF on a daily basis - it seems fairly random). In half a season he's increased to a 12 rating in CF, but clearly his progression would be quicker if the AI didn't continue to return him to RF.

For those who use the minors to increase players' skills at new positions, check to be sure the AI doesn't routinely move minor league players back to their default positions. Thanks.

battists · 07-13-2006, 11:45 AM

Cooker, and you're not changing the player's assigned position, correct? You're simply trying to play a RF in CF in the depth charts/lineups, and the AI keeps changing it back?

Steve

endgame · 07-13-2006, 11:53 AM

Steve, unless I missed it, we also need to know whether the checkbox "Do not allow roster moves" for the owning team has been selected.

Posts #18-#26 in this thread link (with the exception of the OP) address this aspect:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=126623

steady teddy · 07-13-2006, 12:04 PM

Would it be possible to let the AI manager fill the lineups but use some common sense in the process?

I prefer to just play the role of GM, sim games, and let my AI handle at least the minor league rosters. When I call up a player from the minors, it wreaks havoc on that minor league team if I let the AI manager fill the new lineup(s). I'd prefer not go through the process resetting depth charts and lineups, a process I have to repeat over and over if I send that player back to his minor league club.

The AI manager will fill the lineup based on natural position, which makes sense. But if I only have one player who is a natural 1B or SS for example, the AI manager will insert that player in the lineup for every single game past the point of exhaustion.

I don't know if the game can be coded to have a utility IF who naturally plays 2B & SS playing 3B or put a Catcher at 1st base to give those starters a breather once in a while but it sure would make things a lot easier.

Markus Heinsohn · 07-13-2006, 12:25 PM

Minor leagues were buggy, and this was fixed a couple of days ago... please let me know how about the majors.

digi · 07-13-2006, 12:30 PM

Steve,

As an FYI, it appears to change everything back (linups, depth charts) after the Force Start on Certain Weekday setting.

Cooker · 07-13-2006, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

Cooker, and you're not changing the player's assigned position, correct? You're simply trying to play a RF in CF in the depth charts/lineups, and the AI keeps changing it back?
Steve

That's correct. I've considered (as a work-around) editing him (while acting as commissioner) to make CF his assigned position instead of RF. But so far I haven't tried that. It shouldn't be needed.

battists · 07-13-2006, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooker

Steve, I've noticed that in my minor leagues (human-controlled fictional league team where I'm the GM) if I set the lineups and depth-charts for minor league players to play other than their existing primary positions (i.e., to learn new positions), the AI nonetheless puts them back to their primary listed position.

For example, in my fictional league (created using the in-game Quick-Start) I have a AAA prospect named Tom Sanders who's listed as a RF. He's rated 84 (on a 100 point scale) in RF. I want him to learn CF, so I made that change in my AAA team lineups and depth-charts. A couple days later I go back and check and he's shown in the lineups and depth-charts as playing RF. This has happened several times; I keep making the change over and over.

So Sanders has played some in CF (the AI doesn't seem to change him back to RF on a daily basis - it seems fairly random). In half a season he's increased to a 12 rating in CF, but clearly his progression would be quicker if the AI didn't continue to return him to RF.

For those who use the minors to increase players' skills at new positions, check to be sure the AI doesn't routinely move minor league players back to their default positions. Thanks.

I just ran a test in the newest (unreleased) patch, and this is looking good. Just after the inaugural draft, I jumbled my entire AAA depth charts and lineups, playing people out of position, putting starters into reserve roles and scrubs in the starting lineup, etc. I took screen shots of each so I could compare.

So far I've simmed up until the ammy pool is released, with no changes whatsoever. I've had injuries and so forth, and the AI hasn't touched my depth charts or lineups. I will continue through Jan 1 of next season at least - I want to make sure it doesn't mess around with stuff after the ammy draft, or after the season ends.

battists · 07-13-2006, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digi

Steve,

As an FYI, it appears to change everything back (linups, depth charts) after the Force Start on Certain Weekday setting.

So, are you saying you do this?

1. Start a game
2. Set your depth charts, lineups, etc.
3. Change the Force Start on Certain Weekday Setting
4. Check your depth charts, lineups, and they will be changed.

??

Seems pretty odd, but I'll try that, if that's what you're saying!

digi · 07-13-2006, 04:03 PM

Sorry,

I should have been clearer. It may be unrelated but if the Force Start Date is set to Monday, is seems to reset the minors after Mondays games. Does that make sense?

battists · 07-13-2006, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digi

Sorry,

I should have been clearer. It may be unrelated but if the Force Start Date is set to Monday, is seems to reset the minors after Mondays games. Does that make sense?

Can you tell me what kind of league it is, fictional/historical, etc.? I want to replicate what you are seeing as closely as possible.

digi · 07-13-2006, 05:49 PM

It's a fictional. If you'd like, I can send u my league file.

battists · 07-13-2006, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digi

It's a fictional. If you'd like, I can send u my league file.

Sure. Zip up just the .dat files, and e-mail it to me at steve.battisti@ootpdevelopments.com.

So, you're saying that once I load that league, if I sim for a week, until Monday, any changes I make to depth charts should get changed?

endgame · 07-13-2006, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

Sure. Zip up just the .dat files, and e-mail it to me at steve.battisti@ootpdevelopments.com.

So, you're saying that once I load that league, if I sim for a week, until Monday, any changes I make to depth charts should NOT get changed? Until you sim that Monday.

Fixed that. If they do at all. His comment reminded me that there was some contention in earlier threads that changes were being made weekly rather than any random method, and Monday was the day of note.

It doesn't sound like that's the case given the many "weeks" you've already simmed. Btw, referring to my post #4 above, are you checking the Do not Allow Roster Moves box for your team, Steve? Or are your results w/o utilizing that selection?

battists · 07-13-2006, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endgame

Fixed that. If they do at all. His comment reminded me that there was some contention in earlier threads that changes were being made weekly rather than any random method, and Monday was the day of note.

It doesn't sound like that's the case given the many "weeks" you've already simmed. Btw, referring to my post #4 above, are you checking the Do not Allow Roster Moves box for your team, Steve? Or are your results w/o utilizing that selection?

My results are "vanilla." No special checkboxes. I'm just the GM of a major league club.

JimG · 07-13-2006, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooker

Steve, I've noticed that in my minor leagues (human-controlled fictional league team where I'm the GM) if I set the lineups and depth-charts for minor league players to play other than their existing primary positions (i.e., to learn new positions), the AI nonetheless puts them back to their primary listed position.

This is a known bug in Patch 2 and it is being given "top priority". More info here.

endgame · 07-13-2006, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

My results are "vanilla." No special checkboxes. I'm just the GM of a major league club.

Which will lead me eventually to the question, IF you're getting good results with vanilla settings then what further is gained with the selection of the checkbox? Personally, I've used the selection box and watched it through about 3 months now day by day and, injury notwithstanding, the lineup has not moved once at the active level. I have yet to look at the minors though in the same fashion.

endgame · 07-13-2006, 09:38 PM

JimG, the MORE INFO is attempting to be gathered in THIS thread. That's what Steve's trying to establish. If you don't have pertinent information derived directly from your experience actually playing the game, then let's allow those who do have relevant information detail it here as requested.

tk19 · 07-13-2006, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endgame

Fixed that. If they do at all. His comment reminded me that there was some contention in earlier threads that changes were being made weekly rather than any random method, and Monday was the day of note.

It doesn't sound like that's the case given the many "weeks" you've already simmed. Btw, referring to my post #4 above, are you checking the Do not Allow Roster Moves box for your team, Steve? Or are your results w/o utilizing that selection?

Battists - I tested my new league created in 1.0.2 - still resetting my lineups overnight from Sunday to Monday - HOWEVER, I read in another thread about a mystical "Options & Ballpark" screen that I don't think I've ever seen before (nobody has ever told me about it). I checked "Prevent any AI Roster Changes" and that seemed to solve the problem.

I'm not sure if this was the whole problem, or if it is a combination of this and your fix. If I have the chance sometime soon I will go back and test my league created in 1.0.0 and see if it still occurs.

By the way, I also did limited testing of changing some players' positions around (to test for the bug that many have seen, including myself) and the AI was not changing them back. So that may be fixed as well.

I guess the moral of the story is to make sure that anyone complaining about bugs along this line are aware of the Options & Ballpark page! Actually, if I may make a suggestion - this page is kind of hidden. Is there a way to make it easier to find? I think more players in the future might fall into this trap of having the AI change things around, and getting frustrated at the game, because they haven't yet found this options page.

Thanks for all your help!

07-13-2006, 12:30 PM	#7
digi Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 73	Steve, As an FYI, it appears to change everything back (linups, depth charts) after the Force Start on Certain Weekday setting. __________________ DiGi

07-13-2006, 04:03 PM	#11
digi Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 73	Sorry, I should have been clearer. It may be unrelated but if the Force Start Date is set to Monday, is seems to reset the minors after Mondays games. Does that make sense? __________________ DiGi

07-13-2006, 05:49 PM	#13
digi Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 73	It's a fictional. If you'd like, I can send u my league file. __________________ DiGi

07-13-2006, 09:38 PM	#19
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	JimG, the MORE INFO is attempting to be gathered in THIS thread. That's what Steve's trying to establish. If you don't have pertinent information derived directly from your experience actually playing the game, then let's allow those who do have relevant information detail it here as requested. __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________

07-13-2006, 10:51 AM	#1
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	Feedback Needed! AI Changing My Roster/Lineups/Depth Charts! OK, I need your feedback! Many of you are experiencing a bug where the AI is making unwanted changes to your roster, lineups, or depth charts. I am determined to squash this elusive brat in the next patch. What I need to know are specific scenarios that you can replicate wherein the AI always seems to make changes. For example: "If I change the depth charts of my AAA affiliate and sim a day, the AI has changed them back." The example I just cited was an issue, and I have confirmed that it will be fixed in the next patch. But, I'm fairly sure there are some other scenarios out there. The more specific, replicable scenarios you can provide, the harder I can test to make sure they are resolved! Please include details about your basic league configuration! ("1977 Lahman with AAA", or "MAL standard," etc...) Thanks! Steve

07-13-2006, 11:38 AM	#2
Cooker All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 592	Steve, I've noticed that in my minor leagues (human-controlled fictional league team where I'm the GM) if I set the lineups and depth-charts for minor league players to play other than their existing primary positions (i.e., to learn new positions), the AI nonetheless puts them back to their primary listed position. For example, in my fictional league (created using the in-game Quick-Start) I have a AAA prospect named Tom Sanders who's listed as a RF. He's rated 84 (on a 100 point scale) in RF. I want him to learn CF, so I made that change in my AAA team lineups and depth-charts. A couple days later I go back and check and he's shown in the lineups and depth-charts as playing RF. This has happened several times; I keep making the change over and over. So Sanders has played some in CF (the AI doesn't seem to change him back to RF on a daily basis - it seems fairly random). In half a season he's increased to a 12 rating in CF, but clearly his progression would be quicker if the AI didn't continue to return him to RF. For those who use the minors to increase players' skills at new positions, check to be sure the AI doesn't routinely move minor league players back to their default positions. Thanks.

07-13-2006, 11:45 AM	#3
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	Cooker, and you're not changing the player's assigned position, correct? You're simply trying to play a RF in CF in the depth charts/lineups, and the AI keeps changing it back? Steve

07-13-2006, 11:53 AM	#4
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	Steve, unless I missed it, we also need to know whether the checkbox "Do not allow roster moves" for the owning team has been selected. Posts #18-#26 in this thread link (with the exception of the OP) address this aspect: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=126623 __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________ Last edited by endgame; 07-13-2006 at 12:01 PM.

07-13-2006, 12:04 PM	#5
steady teddy Major Leagues Join Date: May 2003 Location: Macomb, Michigan Posts: 407	Would it be possible to let the AI manager fill the lineups but use some common sense in the process? I prefer to just play the role of GM, sim games, and let my AI handle at least the minor league rosters. When I call up a player from the minors, it wreaks havoc on that minor league team if I let the AI manager fill the new lineup(s). I'd prefer not go through the process resetting depth charts and lineups, a process I have to repeat over and over if I send that player back to his minor league club. The AI manager will fill the lineup based on natural position, which makes sense. But if I only have one player who is a natural 1B or SS for example, the AI manager will insert that player in the lineup for every single game past the point of exhaustion. I don't know if the game can be coded to have a utility IF who naturally plays 2B & SS playing 3B or put a Catcher at 1st base to give those starters a breather once in a while but it sure would make things a lot easier.

07-13-2006, 12:25 PM	#6
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,805	Minor leagues were buggy, and this was fixed a couple of days ago... please let me know how about the majors.