Cutting Players

smeyers003 · 07-14-2002, 10:14 PM

I'm running a league with a slary cap so i had to cut some veterans. When i go to see if i can resign them for less, they tell me what they want and i offer it to them, then nothing comes up in the comments sections and it doesn't let me sign them. What's going on?

Steve Kuffrey · 07-14-2002, 10:31 PM

Have you completed simming the games for that particular day? That is often the reason for no response, players don't sign in the middle of a day.

smeyers003 · 07-15-2002, 07:12 AM

Yeah, I've simmed a few days after i cut them too.

Steve Kuffrey · 07-15-2002, 07:30 AM

Are all the league settings as they should be? Finances on, team human controlled, etc?

smeyers003 · 07-15-2002, 07:43 AM

Yes and i can sign other players, it just doesn't let me sign a player that i've cut. And if i take control of another team they will sign there. I'm guessing they don't want to sign with me, but it should say something like i don't like your organization.

Crackerjack · 07-15-2002, 10:20 AM

I have had this problem also.....I thought it was something built in the game that does not allow a team to keep cutting players and signing them for less? If I remember eventually (2-3 sims) I could resign them to their original teams again.

Scott Vibert · 07-15-2002, 10:21 AM

They shouldn't sign with your team... its unrealisitic to expect that the player you just said get out of here too would want to sign with you.

Plus it would be stupid on the teams part anyway. When you cut the player you paid him the rest of his old contract... now you want to sign him to another contract? So you'll be paying him slightly less than double the money than you would have been before? That doesn't make good business sense to do.

I agree a message that said, you can not sign a player you just cut would be appropriate.

darkhorse · 07-15-2002, 10:49 AM

Sounds realistic to me. Cut me and no way would I resign with you after your display of love and loyalty to moi.

Steve G · 07-15-2002, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ScottVib
They shouldn't sign with your team... its unrealisitic to expect that the player you just said get out of here too would want to sign with you.

Plus it would be stupid on the teams part anyway. When you cut the player you paid him the rest of his old contract... now you want to sign him to another contract? So you'll be paying him slightly less than double the money than you would have been before? That doesn't make good business sense to do.

I agree a message that said, you can not sign a player you just cut would be appropriate.

This effectively happens in football all the time. In order to lower a salary cap number, the team tells the player "take a pay cut or get cut" (effectively the same as cutting and signing them back. The difference is that in baseball the contracts are garunteed (you cut a guy making $3 mil a year for the next two years, you pay him $6 mil then and there), where in football they aren't.

SufferingSoxFan · 07-15-2002, 12:42 PM

I offered Bruce Kison (pitcher from the 70's and 80's) an extension of 7.6 mill per year for 4 years. He basically said "screw you" to that. When the season ended, he became a free agent and I signed him for 4.5 per year for 4 years. I was suprised that he wanted to deal with me, period, let alone sign with me. He threw away 12.4 mill.

Other times, I've tried the same thing and the player tells me that he doesn't like my organization.

Also, regarding Kison, I offered him 8 million extension for 5 years at first and he jumped at it. I then canceled the offer basically renegging. I think that when this happens you piss off the player and any offer he will refuse. Funny how by the time he became a free agent he changed his tune. Has this happened to anyone else?

Steve G · 07-15-2002, 12:49 PM

I had a pitcher (Chris Reitsma) want an extension for $3 or $4 million (was making like $1.3 mil at the time). I had plenty of young pitching, but might have resigned him for around what he was making. I let him become a free agent and noticed that he signed several weeks into the next season for something like $640,000.

smeyers003 · 07-15-2002, 04:32 PM

I don't mind that i'm paying them more because my team has a bunch of money, i just need cap space. In the NFL this year the Jets released Marvin Jones only to resign him a week later.

Scott Vibert · 07-15-2002, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by smeyers003
I don't mind that i'm paying them more because my team has a bunch of money, i just need cap space. In the NFL this year the Jets released Marvin Jones only to resign him a week later.

Once again the difference is in the contracts in baseball/OOTP are guarenteed, in football they are not.

In addition in the NFL the players has often already negotiated the new lower contract value and knows what it coming prior to the release, thus the reason for the player being amenable to resigning. The release is simply a formality for the renegotiated contract to take effect, without the release the player could attempt to force the team to pay the old salary and the team would take the old cap hit.

Comparing the liklihood of a player resigning immediately after release in the NFL to that in baseball is like comparing apples and oranges they are completely different situations.

Now regarding OOTP since the contract is guarenteed the player is treating you like any baseball player would treat you if you cut him and then tried to resign him for less money. IMO this is realistic and should be left in this way.

I do agree that notification that the player doesn't want to sign with you because you recently cut him is needed.

Steve G · 07-15-2002, 06:02 PM

I guess the question is how does OOTP consider payouts to a released player in regards to the salary cap? If you can release a player with no cap penalty, then doing what smyers003 makes sense. If you can release a guy making $3,000,000 a year with two years left and afford the $6,000,000 payment, and that DECREASES your cap amount by $3,000,000, then it could make sense to resign him for $1.5 million.

What should happen in the above senario is that $6,000,000 should be applied to the current year cap number. If you don't have that much available, you can't release him. If there is no peanalty, then there is no point in having a cap, as a big-money team can sign a player by offering him a long-term deal and just pay the cash when they cut him after a year or two.

bozanic · 07-16-2002, 11:10 AM

Cutting guys makes sense if you can only keep a maximum amount of cash (10,000,000 in our league) from one season to the next. Any amount over this maximum is given to the other teams. As long as you have enough money over the max, you are in effect not spending any money to cut players with existing multiple year contracts. In fact you are saving money.

07-14-2002, 10:14 PM	#1
smeyers003 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 416	Cutting Players I'm running a league with a slary cap so i had to cut some veterans. When i go to see if i can resign them for less, they tell me what they want and i offer it to them, then nothing comes up in the comments sections and it doesn't let me sign them. What's going on?

07-14-2002, 10:31 PM	#2
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,036	Have you completed simming the games for that particular day? That is often the reason for no response, players don't sign in the middle of a day. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

07-15-2002, 07:30 AM	#4
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,036	Are all the league settings as they should be? Finances on, team human controlled, etc? __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

07-15-2002, 07:43 AM	#5
smeyers003 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 416	Yes and i can sign other players, it just doesn't let me sign a player that i've cut. And if i take control of another team they will sign there. I'm guessing they don't want to sign with me, but it should say something like i don't like your organization. Last edited by smeyers003; 07-15-2002 at 07:45 AM.

07-15-2002, 10:20 AM	#6
Crackerjack Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 362	same thing I have had this problem also.....I thought it was something built in the game that does not allow a team to keep cutting players and signing them for less? If I remember eventually (2-3 sims) I could resign them to their original teams again. __________________ Cheers Bird WWW.CRACKERJACKBASEBALL.COM

07-15-2002, 07:12 AM	#3
smeyers003 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 416	Yeah, I've simmed a few days after i cut them too.

07-15-2002, 10:21 AM	#7
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,275	They shouldn't sign with your team... its unrealisitic to expect that the player you just said get out of here too would want to sign with you. Plus it would be stupid on the teams part anyway. When you cut the player you paid him the rest of his old contract... now you want to sign him to another contract? So you'll be paying him slightly less than double the money than you would have been before? That doesn't make good business sense to do. I agree a message that said, you can not sign a player you just cut would be appropriate.

07-15-2002, 10:49 AM	#8
darkhorse Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: fort worth, tx Posts: 10,850	Sounds realistic to me. Cut me and no way would I resign with you after your display of love and loyalty to moi. __________________ "The Human Torch was denied a bank loan."

07-15-2002, 12:42 PM	#10
SufferingSoxFan Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Attleboro, MA Posts: 150	I offered Bruce Kison (pitcher from the 70's and 80's) an extension of 7.6 mill per year for 4 years. He basically said "screw you" to that. When the season ended, he became a free agent and I signed him for 4.5 per year for 4 years. I was suprised that he wanted to deal with me, period, let alone sign with me. He threw away 12.4 mill. Other times, I've tried the same thing and the player tells me that he doesn't like my organization. Also, regarding Kison, I offered him 8 million extension for 5 years at first and he jumped at it. I then canceled the offer basically renegging. I think that when this happens you piss off the player and any offer he will refuse. Funny how by the time he became a free agent he changed his tune. Has this happened to anyone else?

07-15-2002, 12:49 PM	#11
Steve G Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 157	I had a pitcher (Chris Reitsma) want an extension for $3 or $4 million (was making like $1.3 mil at the time). I had plenty of young pitching, but might have resigned him for around what he was making. I let him become a free agent and noticed that he signed several weeks into the next season for something like $640,000.

07-15-2002, 04:32 PM	#12
smeyers003 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 416	I don't mind that i'm paying them more because my team has a bunch of money, i just need cap space. In the NFL this year the Jets released Marvin Jones only to resign him a week later.

07-15-2002, 06:02 PM	#14
Steve G Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 157	I guess the question is how does OOTP consider payouts to a released player in regards to the salary cap? If you can release a player with no cap penalty, then doing what smyers003 makes sense. If you can release a guy making $3,000,000 a year with two years left and afford the $6,000,000 payment, and that DECREASES your cap amount by $3,000,000, then it could make sense to resign him for $1.5 million. What should happen in the above senario is that $6,000,000 should be applied to the current year cap number. If you don't have that much available, you can't release him. If there is no peanalty, then there is no point in having a cap, as a big-money team can sign a player by offering him a long-term deal and just pay the cash when they cut him after a year or two.

07-16-2002, 11:10 AM	#15
bozanic Bat Boy Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 14	Cutting guys makes sense if you can only keep a maximum amount of cash (10,000,000 in our league) from one season to the next. Any amount over this maximum is given to the other teams. As long as you have enough money over the max, you are in effect not spending any money to cut players with existing multiple year contracts. In fact you are saving money.