Spanning the globe...

RMc · 01-19-2006, 06:28 PM

It seems that everyone (including me) is fantasing about creating the ultimate global baseball league, with teams in every country. But just how good are different countries at baseball?

To answer this question, I went to the IBAF (International Baseball Federation) website to who's playin' ball these days. There are currently 110 member nations in the IBAF. (Some of these "national" federations are not independent nations, but I'll refer to them all as "countries" to avoid confusion.)

Then I set about trying to determine which national teams have been most successful lately, by using a weighted system of where each team placed in various tournaments (World Cup, Olympics, etc). Using somewhat shaky methodology and few hideous formulas, I came up with the Top 25 Baseball Countries:

U.S.A. 100
Cuba 90
Japan 88
South Korea 86
Panama 84
Canada 82
Chinese Taipei 80
Mexico 78
Nicaragua 76
Rep.Dominicana 74
Netherlands 72
Brazil 70
Puerto Rico 68
China 66
Italy 64
Australia 62
Colombia 60
Philippines 58
Russia 56
South Africa 54
France 52
Spain 50
Sweden 48
Greece 46
Czech Republic 44

The number to right is a Power Rating: The USA is a perfect 100, and the others are in relation to the top team.

Yes, of course the Cubans win every tournament they enter -- tournaments that don't feature MLB players. The US is the country that features (almost) all of the current Major league Baseball teams, and most of the players on those teams are Americans. There's no way, in my mind, the USA isn't number one, and probably by a lot larger margin that what I have listed. But we'll place Cuba at number two, with a 90 rating, and the Japanese just behind at 88.

Why 90 and 88? Several studies I've read suggest the level of play in the Japanese Leagues is roughly 88-90% as good as MLB, so that makes a decent starting point. The rest of the Top 25 step down two percentage points apiece....it's as good a measuring stick as any. (Too bad the IBAF doesn't have a world ranking of teams, like FIFA does.)

What about the other nations of the world? Well, let's start with the 85 (other) members of the IBAF, some of which are comically small (San Marino, the British Virgin Islands, the Cook Islands and Palau are all members of the IBAF -- and they have a combined population about 93,000, or less than my hometown). Figuring #26 should have a Power rating of 42 (2 less than #25 Czech Republic) and #110 should be rated at 2, here's what we come up with:

India 42
Indonesia 40
Pakistan 39
Nigeria 36
Germany 29
Turkey 26
Iran 26
Thailand 25
Great Britain 24
Ukraine 21
Myanmar 21
Argentina 20
Poland 20
Kenya 18
Morocco 18
Perú 17
Uganda 16
Uzbekistan 16
Malaysia 16
Venezuela 16
North Korea 15
Romania 15
Ghana 14
Sri Lanka 14
Ivory Coast 13
Cameroon 13
Chile 13
Kazakhstan 13
Guatemala 12
Ecuador 11
Zimbabwe 11
Mali 11
Zambia 11
Serbia and Montenegro 10
Portugal 10
Belgium 10
Belarus 10
Hungary 10
Tunisia 10
Bolivia 9
Austria 9
Switzerland 9
Bulgaria 9
Honduras 8
Israel 8
Hong Kong 8
El Salvador 8
Togo 7
Papua New Guinea 7
Denmark 7
Slovakia 7
Finland 7
Georgia 7
Norway 7
Croatia 7
Moldova 7
Singapore 7
Ireland 6
New Zealand 6
Costa Rica 6
Lithuania 6
Liberia 6
Armenia 5
Mongolia 5
Jamaica 5
Namibia 5
Slovenia 4
Lesotho 4
Estonia 4
Fiji 3
Cyprus 3
Malta 2
Brunei 2
Bahamas 2
Netherlands Antilles 2
Samoa 2
Guam 2
Micronesia 2
U.S. Virgin Islands 2
Aruba 2
American Samoa 2
San Marino 2
British Virgin Islands 2
Cook Islands 2
Palau 2

Is India really the #26 baseball-playing country in the world? I doubt it; try Googling "india baseball" sometime, and you won't find much. (They seems to play some other game with a ball and a bat.) But, lacking any other hard data, I decided to rank these 85 countries by population -- and India has 1,080,264,388 or so people, according to Wikipedia. That's a lot of people, yes? Would it really be that hard to scare up a 25-man roster out of a billion people?

And what about the countries that aren't even in the IBAF, starting with Pakistan...144 million people without a ballclub? OK, let's make Pakistan a 20 -- a replacement level country, if you will -- and rate the rest:

Bangladesh 20
Vietnam 19
Egypt 18
Ethiopia 18
Democratic Republic of the Congo 16
Sudan 13
Tanzania 13
Algeria 12
Afghanistan 11
Nepal 11
Saudi Arabia 11
Iraq 11
Yemen 9
Mozambique 9
Syria 9
Madagascar 9
Burkina Faso 8
Cambodia 8
Malawi 7
Niger 7
Angola 7
Senegal 7
Chad 7
Guinea 6
Somalia 6
Rwanda 6
Haiti 6
Azerbaijan 6
Benin 6
Tajikistan 6
Burundi 5
Paraguay 5
Laos 5
Sierra Leone 5
Libya 5
Jordan 5
Kyrgyzstan 5
Turkmenistan 5
Eritrea 4
Bosnia and Herzegovina 4
Lebanon 4
Central African Republic 4
Albania 4
Uruguay 4
Mauritania 4
Republic of the Congo 4
Oman 4
United Arab Emirates 3
West Bank 3
Kuwait 3
Latvia 3
Bhutan 3
Republic of Macedonia 3
Botswana 3
The Gambia 3
Guinea-Bissau 2
Gabon 2
Gaza Strip 2
Mauritius 2
Swaziland 2
Trinidad and Tobago 2
East Timor 2
Qatar 2
Réunion 2
Guyana 2
Bahrain 2
Comoros 2
Solomon Islands 2
Equatorial Guinea 2
Djibouti 1
Luxembourg 1
Macau SAR (PRC) 1
Guadeloupe 1
Suriname 1
Martinique 1
Cape Verde 1
Maldives 1
Iceland 1
Belize 1
Barbados 1
Western Sahara 1
French Polynesia 1
New Caledonia 1
Vanuatu 1
French Guiana 1
Mayotte 1
São Tomé and Príncipe 1
Saint Lucia 1
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 1
Tonga 1
Kiribati 1
Jersey 1
Grenada 1
Seychelles 1
Northern Mariana Islands 1
Isle of Man 1
Andorra 1
Dominica 1
Antigua and Barbuda 1
Bermuda 1
Guernsey 1
Marshall Islands 1
Greenland 1
Faroe Islands 0
Cayman Islands 0
Saint Kitts and Nevis 0
Liechtenstein 0
Monaco 0
Gibraltar 0
Turks and Caicos Islands 0
Wallis and Futuna 0
Anguilla 0
Nauru 0
Tuvalu 0

I drew the line at countries with 10,000 people.

Putting it all together:

U.S.A. 100
Cuba 90
Japan 88
South Korea 86
Panama 84
Canada 82
Chinese Taipei 80
Mexico 78
Nicaragua 76
Dominican Republic 74
Netherlands 72
Brazil 70
Puerto Rico 68
China 66
Italy 64
Australia 62
Colombia 60
Philippines 58
Russia 56
South Africa 54
France 52
Spain 50
Sweden 48
Greece 46
Czech Republic 44
India 42
Indonesia 40
Pakistan 39
Nigeria 36
Germany 29
Turkey 26
Iran 26
Thailand 25
Great Britain 24
Ukraine 21
Myanmar 21
Argentina 20
Poland 20
Bangladesh 20
Vietnam 19
Kenya 18
Morocco 18
Egypt 18
Ethiopia 18
Perú 17
Uganda 16
Uzbekistan 16
Malaysia 16
Venezuela 16
Dem Rep of Congo 16
North Korea 15
Romania 15
Ghana 14
Sri Lanka 14
Ivory Coast 13
Cameroon 13
Chile 13
Kazakhstan 13
Sudan 13
Tanzania 13
Guatemala 12
Algeria 12
Ecuador 11
Zimbabwe 11
Mali 11
Zambia 11
Afghanistan 11
Nepal 11
Saudi Arabia 11
Iraq 11
Serbia and Montenegro 10
Portugal 10
Belgium 10
Belarus 10
Hungary 10
Tunisia 10
Bolivia 9
Austria 9
Switzerland 9
Bulgaria 9
Yemen 9
Mozambique 9
Syria 9
Madagascar 9
Honduras 8
Israel 8
Hong Kong 8
El Salvador 8
Burkina Faso 8
Cambodia 8
Togo 7
Papua New Guinea 7
Denmark 7
Slovakia 7
Finland 7
Georgia 7
Norway 7
Croatia 7
Moldova 7
Singapore 7
Malawi 7
Niger 7
Angola 7
Senegal 7
Chad 7
Ireland 6
New Zealand 6
Costa Rica 6
Lithuania 6
Liberia 6
Guinea 6
Somalia 6
Rwanda 6
Haiti 6
Azerbaijan 6
Benin 6
Tajikistan 6
Armenia 5
Mongolia 5
Jamaica 5
Namibia 5
Burundi 5
Paraguay 5
Laos 5
Sierra Leone 5
Libya 5
Jordan 5
Kyrgyzstan 5
Turkmenistan 5
Slovenia 4
Lesotho 4
Estonia 4
Eritrea 4
Bosnia and Herzegovina 4
Lebanon 4
Central African Republic 4
Albania 4
Uruguay 4
Mauritania 4
Republic of the Congo 4
Oman 4
Fiji 3
Cyprus 3
United Arab Emirates 3
West Bank 3
Kuwait 3
Latvia 3
Bhutan 3
Republic of Macedonia 3
Botswana 3
The Gambia 3
Malta 2
Brunei 2
Bahamas 2
Netherlands Antilles 2
Samoa 2
Guam 2
Micronesia 2
U.S. Virgin Islands 2
Aruba 2
American Samoa 2
San Marino 2
British Virgin Islands 2
Cook Islands 2
Palau 2
Guinea-Bissau 2
Gabon 2
Gaza Strip 2
Mauritius 2
Swaziland 2
Trinidad and Tobago 2
East Timor 2
Qatar 2
Réunion 2
Guyana 2
Bahrain 2
Comoros 2
Solomon Islands 2
Equatorial Guinea 2
Djibouti 1
Luxembourg 1
Macau SAR (PRC) 1
Guadeloupe 1
Suriname 1
Martinique 1
Cape Verde 1
Maldives 1
Iceland 1
Belize 1
Barbados 1
Western Sahara 1
French Polynesia 1
New Caledonia 1
Vanuatu 1
French Guiana 1
Mayotte 1
São Tomé and Príncipe 1
Saint Lucia 1
St Vincent/Grenadines 1
Tonga 1
Kiribati 1
Jersey 1
Grenada 1
Seychelles 1
Northern Mariana Islands 1
Isle of Man 1
Andorra 1
Dominica 1
Antigua and Barbuda 1
Bermuda 1
Guernsey 1
Marshall Islands 1
Greenland 1
Faroe Islands 0
Cayman Islands 0
Saint Kitts and Nevis 0
Liechtenstein 0
Monaco 0
Gibraltar 0
Turks and Caicos Islands 0
Wallis and Futuna 0
Anguilla 0
Nauru 0
Tuvalu 0

That's 224 countries, each with their own league. Figure eight teams in each league, and 200 players in each team's system...that's 358,400 players!

Ouch. Gotta get outta the house more...

jm47048 · 01-19-2006, 06:40 PM

This is great stuff but I gotta tell ya, you need a life

Just kidding. This is great information that I think I will use to create my own league set.

spark240 · 01-19-2006, 08:38 PM

[QUOTE=RMc]...But just how good are different countries at baseball?
...
Venezuela 16
...

Umm...no. The formula needs some work, bud.

Sublimity · 01-19-2006, 09:21 PM

Wilco is ranked too low.

Anyway, I think this would be a nearly impossible thing to accurately figure out, but good job making an attempt.

cdheer · 01-19-2006, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RMc

Faroe Islands 0
Cayman Islands 0
Saint Kitts and Nevis 0
Liechtenstein 0
Monaco 0
Gibraltar 0
Turks and Caicos Islands 0
Wallis and Futuna 0
Anguilla 0
Nauru 0
Tuvalu 0

OOOO, I am so going to have a Zero league in my Heerniverse. I'll call it, um, Absolut Zero. ("E" missing on purpose. It's what passes for wit in my house.) Crank their equivalencies waaayyyy down...they'll be the comic relief of my universe!*

--chris

*Thus putting the Devil Rays out of work.

Sublimity · 01-19-2006, 09:55 PM

I would think the Devil Rays would be the Absolut Zero.

a1steak · 01-19-2006, 10:03 PM

That's just wrong, dued. The Devil Rays aren't that bad...

cdheer · 01-20-2006, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1steak

That's just wrong, dued. The Devil Rays aren't that bad...

Number of winning seasons: 0.
Winning pct. over life of team: .396
Average number of games back at end of season: 34.56

How would you define a truly bad team?

enuttage · 01-20-2006, 10:45 AM

Yeah. Venezuela is WAY to low on the power ranking there. And, IMO, several others should be above Panama, including VZ and MX.

Awesome idea, though. I'm right there with you.

RMc · 01-20-2006, 11:05 AM

Venezuela 16
...
Umm...no. The formula needs some work, bud.

Quite right, considering Venezuela's produced 181 major leaguers. And, in fact, they placed 6th at the 2002 Intercontinental Cup, which I overlooked. Let's put them even with Colombia with a Power rating of 60 (for now).

Time for some more tweaking, using factors such as (a) big leaguers produced; (b) popularity of other outdoor sports like cricket and soccer; and (c) location, location, location.

RMc · 01-20-2006, 12:26 PM

OK, here's an update.

That's cricket, mate
I downgraded countries that are full members of the International Cricket Council, largely by dividing their power ratings by the square root of 2. (When you have a math background like mine, you always want to divide or multiply everything by the square root of two...it's just such a perfect number

) The full members are India, New Zealand, Pakistan, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, UK, Australia, South Africa and the West Indies. (I left Australia's and South Africa's ratings alone, since they're both in the Top 26 and have proved themselves in international baseball competition; also I kept West Indies [actually several island nations] and the UK the same because of their contributions to MLB [see below].)

A kick in the grass
Interestingly, many of the top teams in the FIFA world rankings [like Brazil, Mexico, the US and the Czech Republic (!)] are also in Baseball's Top 26. (Probably a function of the fact that they're just plain large countries, or are in a warm-weather part of the planet, or both.) So the only countries I decided to ding because they had good soccer teams were Argentina and Portugal, and not by much.

Goin' the big leagues
Here's a complete list of the foreign countries that have produced at least five MLB players (thanks, Baseball-Reference):

Dominican Republic 410
Puerto Rico 215
Canada 205
Venezuela 181
Cuba 150
Mexico 98
Panama 45
Germany (incl. W. Germany) 41
Ireland 40
Japan 32
England 30
Australia 19
South Korea 12
Virgin Islands 10
France 8
Nicaragua 8
Scotland 8
Colombia 7
Italy 6
Holland 6
Bahamas 5
Curacao 5
Russia 5

I don't know what's more amazing...the fact that the Dominicans have produced 410 major leaguers, or the fact that Haiti, located on the very same island as the DR, has never produced any!

Germany, Ireland and (especially) Venezuela, the only countries high on this list that weren't in the original Power ratings Top 25, get a boost. And the UK and the Carribean nations get to stay where they are and not pay the Cricket Tax.

Hot enough for you?
I decided not to award (or take away) any points for weather, since any baseball-playing country worth their salt has to have at least part of their territory in nice weather most of the time. Besides, what's the point in punishing Greenland further?

So now, here's the updated list (I eliminated the zeroes, wise guys

):

U.S.A. 100
Cuba 90
Japan 88
South Korea 86
Panama 84
Canada 82
Chinese Taipei 80
Mexico 78
Nicaragua 76
Rep.Dominicana 74
Netherlands 72
Brazil 70
Puerto Rico 68
China 66
Italy 64
Australia 62
Colombia 60
Venezuela 60
Philippines 58
Russia 56
South Africa 54
France 52
Spain 50
Sweden 48
Greece 46
Czech Republic 44
Indonesia 40
Nigeria 36
Germany 31
India 30
Pakistan 29
Iran 26
Turkey 26
Thailand 25
Great Britain 24
Myanmar 21
Ukraine 21
Poland 20
Vietnam 19
Egypt 18
Ethiopia 18
Kenya 18
Morocco 18
Perú 17
Democratic Republic of the Congo 16
Malaysia 16
Uganda 16
Uzbekistan 16
North Korea 15
Romania 15
Argentina 14
Bangladesh 14
Ghana 14
Cameroon 13
Chile 13
Ivory Coast 13
Kazakhstan 13
Sudan 13
Tanzania 13
Algeria 12
Guatemala 12
Afghanistan 11
Ecuador 11
Iraq 11
Mali 11
Nepal 11
Saudi Arabia 11
Zambia 11
Belarus 10
Belgium 10
Hungary 10
Serbia and Montenegro 10
Sri Lanka 10
Tunisia 10
Austria 9
Bolivia 9
Bulgaria 9
Madagascar 9
Mozambique 9
Switzerland 9
Syria 9
Yemen 9
Burkina Faso 8
Cambodia 8
El Salvador 8
Honduras 8
Hong Kong 8
Israel 8
Portugal 8
Zimbabwe 8
Angola 7
Chad 7
Croatia 7
Denmark 7
Finland 7
Georgia 7
Malawi 7
Moldova 7
Niger 7
Norway 7
Papua New Guinea 7
Senegal 7
Singapore 7
Slovakia 7
Togo 7
Azerbaijan 6
Benin 6
Costa Rica 6
Guinea 6
Haiti 6
Ireland 6
Liberia 6
Lithuania 6
Rwanda 6
Somalia 6
Tajikistan 6
Armenia 5
Burundi 5
Jamaica 5
Jordan 5
Kyrgyzstan 5
Laos 5
Libya 5
Mongolia 5
Namibia 5
New Zealand 5
Paraguay 5
Sierra Leone 5
Turkmenistan 5
Albania 4
Bosnia and Herzegovina 4
Central African Republic 4
Eritrea 4
Estonia 4
Lebanon 4
Lesotho 4
Mauritania 4
Oman 4
Republic of the Congo 4
Slovenia 4
Uruguay 4
Bhutan 3
Botswana 3
Cyprus 3
Fiji 3
Kuwait 3
Latvia 3
Republic of Macedonia 3
The Gambia 3
United Arab Emirates 3
West Bank 3
American Samoa 2
Aruba 2
Bahamas 2
Bahrain 2
British Virgin Islands 2
Brunei 2
Comoros 2
Cook Islands 2
East Timor 2
Equatorial Guinea 2
Gabon 2
Gaza Strip 2
Guam 2
Guinea-Bissau 2
Guyana 2
Malta 2
Mauritius 2
Micronesia 2
Netherlands Antilles 2
Palau 2
Qatar 2
Réunion 2
Samoa 2
San Marino 2
Solomon Islands 2
Swaziland 2
Trinidad and Tobago 2
U.S. Virgin Islands 2
Andorra 1
Anguilla 1
Antigua and Barbuda 1
Barbados 1
Belize 1
Bermuda 1
Cape Verde 1
Cayman Islands 1
Djibouti 1
Dominica 1
Faroe Islands 1
French Guiana 1
French Polynesia 1
Gibraltar 1
Greenland 1
Grenada 1
Guadeloupe 1
Guernsey 1
Iceland 1
Isle of Man 1
Jersey 1
Kiribati 1
Liechtenstein 1
Luxembourg 1
Macau SAR (PRC) 1
Maldives 1
Marshall Islands 1
Martinique 1
Mayotte 1
Monaco 1
Nauru 1
New Caledonia 1
Northern Mariana Islands 1
Saint Kitts and Nevis 1
Saint Lucia 1
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 1
São Tomé and Príncipe 1
Seychelles 1
Suriname 1
Tonga 1
Turks and Caicos Islands 1
Tuvalu 1
Vanuatu 1
Wallis and Futuna 1
Western Sahara 1

No, I feel fine. Why do you ask...?

s7venrw · 01-20-2006, 01:26 PM

My goal, depending on how the financials are run, is this:

I'm not going to create leagues in every country, but I might do it for every geographical area. For example: The US will have a league with 51 teams (50 states + D.C.), Canada and Greenland will have a league with a team for every province, Mexico will have a league with a team for everyone of their states, Central America/the Carribian will have a league for their countries, Europe will have a league with teams for every one of their countries, etc. If the countries have a league of some sort, I'm going to try to imitate their leagues in schedule and team format (e.g mexico's teams have 28 players rather than 25 and have a shorter schedule)

I plan on making the stadiums as real as possible and hope to simulate the whether as much as possible, and want the market to reflect the population and the Gross National/State Product. Avg. Elevation and ballpark dimensions will determine hitting factors.

This is going to take a lot of work, but I think it would be fun.

Kelric · 01-23-2006, 04:22 AM

Latvia with a 3! Rock on homeland of my grandparents!

PotatoPeeler · 01-23-2006, 06:06 AM

My brother just got married to a girl from Latvia. He was there last month and didn't say anything about people playing baseball!

theasfl · 01-23-2006, 02:42 PM

I really wish I had the time to emass info like this together, I still hope to have some sort of world-spanning universe with a few levels of leagues in each country. The number of levels depends on the popularity and population of the country.

perezh · 01-23-2006, 08:23 PM

I find it hard to believe that the Rep. Dominicana (Dominican Republic) is not ranked higher. The major reason why they don't do as well in international tournaments is because their country is picked about by the major leagues starting when the best kids are 13 and 14. Maybe I misread the study's purpose, but the Dominican Republic's output of major leaguers puts it way ahead of countries like South Korea, Japan, Mexico and others.

Kivlehan · 01-23-2006, 11:13 PM

You've gotta give some of these European countries more props. You're rating Kazhakstan above Ireland and other European countries that have national teams and play in tournaments:

http://www.baseballireland.com/national_team.htm

Plus Ireland has at least contributed a significant number of big leaguers. In the 1890s, many big leaguers either came from Ireland or were 1st generation. Give the Emerald Isle some props for this.

At least more respect than Zimbabwe and such places.

Twelvefield · 01-26-2006, 03:21 AM

OOTPB probably won't model this, but here's food for thought: it may be difficult to run a league that spans too many time zones, i.e. the Canada -Greenland league. The CFL (Canadian Football League) has enough problems with this as it is, I can't imagine there would be very many alert viewers for the Vancouver-Qaanaaq series. That, and Greenland has closer ties to Denmark than Canada, with Greenland being the stick that's stirring the enmity pot between us Canucks and those Danish over Hans Island.

canadiancreed · 01-26-2006, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twelvefield

OOTPB probably won't model this, but here's food for thought: it may be difficult to run a league that spans too many time zones, i.e. the Canada -Greenland league. The CFL (Canadian Football League) has enough problems with this as it is, I can't imagine there would be very many alert viewers for the Vancouver-Qaanaaq series. That, and Greenland has closer ties to Denmark than Canada, with Greenland being the stick that's stirring the enmity pot between us Canucks and those Danish over Hans Island.

damn their love over a worthless lump of frozen rock!

and we're rated behind Panama?! Ya freckin right! :P

schielma · 01-26-2006, 08:44 AM

I just have one question. How does a person really have this much free time to do this much research on such an "interesting" topic?

01-19-2006, 09:21 PM	#4
Sublimity Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: This thread. Posts: 3,199	Wilco is ranked too low. Anyway, I think this would be a nearly impossible thing to accurately figure out, but good job making an attempt. __________________ mrs ria: I hereby dub Sublimity the Glorious Upholder of the 5B3. Current leading vote-getter in the Worst Poster in OT History poll.

01-19-2006, 09:55 PM	#6
Sublimity Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: This thread. Posts: 3,199	I would think the Devil Rays would be the Absolut Zero. __________________ mrs ria: I hereby dub Sublimity the Glorious Upholder of the 5B3. Current leading vote-getter in the Worst Poster in OT History poll.

01-20-2006, 10:45 AM	#9
enuttage Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Hill Country Posts: 2,430	Yeah. Venezuela is WAY to low on the power ranking there. And, IMO, several others should be above Panama, including VZ and MX. Awesome idea, though. I'm right there with you. __________________ The former GM of the WHBL Managua Four Roses *"The best way to find out if you can trust somebody is to trust them."*

01-23-2006, 06:06 AM	#14
PotatoPeeler Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rapid City, SD Posts: 3,639	My brother just got married to a girl from Latvia. He was there last month and didn't say anything about people playing baseball! __________________ 培傑西 I have never taken a lesson on how to talk on TV in my life. - Tim McCarver Guns have only two enemies; rust and liberals. The world is a comedy to those that think; a tragedy to those that feel.

01-23-2006, 02:42 PM	#15
theasfl Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Coral Springs, FL or Orlando, FL (UCF) Posts: 7,988	I really wish I had the time to emass info like this together, I still hope to have some sort of world-spanning universe with a few levels of leagues in each country. The number of levels depends on the popularity and population of the country. __________________ All-Sports Fantasy League The ASFL 22 different games, 9 sports. Please check out the website (www.theasfl.com/asfl2/). The league is free- if you're interested please fill out the signup form and/or email the commissioner. Miami Talons (ABL): 2004, 2005 & 2008 Champs

01-19-2006, 06:28 PM	#1
RMc All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,715	Spanning the globe... It seems that everyone (including me) is fantasing about creating the ultimate global baseball league, with teams in every country. But just how good are different countries at baseball? To answer this question, I went to the IBAF (International Baseball Federation) website to who's playin' ball these days. There are currently 110 member nations in the IBAF. (Some of these "national" federations are not independent nations, but I'll refer to them all as "countries" to avoid confusion.) Then I set about trying to determine which national teams have been most successful lately, by using a weighted system of where each team placed in various tournaments (World Cup, Olympics, etc). Using somewhat shaky methodology and few hideous formulas, I came up with the Top 25 Baseball Countries: U.S.A. 100 Cuba 90 Japan 88 South Korea 86 Panama 84 Canada 82 Chinese Taipei 80 Mexico 78 Nicaragua 76 Rep.Dominicana 74 Netherlands 72 Brazil 70 Puerto Rico 68 China 66 Italy 64 Australia 62 Colombia 60 Philippines 58 Russia 56 South Africa 54 France 52 Spain 50 Sweden 48 Greece 46 Czech Republic 44 The number to right is a Power Rating: The USA is a perfect 100, and the others are in relation to the top team. Yes, of course the Cubans win every tournament they enter -- tournaments that don't feature MLB players. The US is the country that features (almost) all of the current Major league Baseball teams, and most of the players on those teams are Americans. There's no way, in my mind, the USA isn't number one, and probably by a lot larger margin that what I have listed. But we'll place Cuba at number two, with a 90 rating, and the Japanese just behind at 88. Why 90 and 88? Several studies I've read suggest the level of play in the Japanese Leagues is roughly 88-90% as good as MLB, so that makes a decent starting point. The rest of the Top 25 step down two percentage points apiece....it's as good a measuring stick as any. (Too bad the IBAF doesn't have a world ranking of teams, like FIFA does.) What about the other nations of the world? Well, let's start with the 85 (other) members of the IBAF, some of which are comically small (San Marino, the British Virgin Islands, the Cook Islands and Palau are all members of the IBAF -- and they have a combined population about 93,000, or less than my hometown). Figuring #26 should have a Power rating of 42 (2 less than #25 Czech Republic) and #110 should be rated at 2, here's what we come up with: India 42 Indonesia 40 Pakistan 39 Nigeria 36 Germany 29 Turkey 26 Iran 26 Thailand 25 Great Britain 24 Ukraine 21 Myanmar 21 Argentina 20 Poland 20 Kenya 18 Morocco 18 Perú 17 Uganda 16 Uzbekistan 16 Malaysia 16 Venezuela 16 North Korea 15 Romania 15 Ghana 14 Sri Lanka 14 Ivory Coast 13 Cameroon 13 Chile 13 Kazakhstan 13 Guatemala 12 Ecuador 11 Zimbabwe 11 Mali 11 Zambia 11 Serbia and Montenegro 10 Portugal 10 Belgium 10 Belarus 10 Hungary 10 Tunisia 10 Bolivia 9 Austria 9 Switzerland 9 Bulgaria 9 Honduras 8 Israel 8 Hong Kong 8 El Salvador 8 Togo 7 Papua New Guinea 7 Denmark 7 Slovakia 7 Finland 7 Georgia 7 Norway 7 Croatia 7 Moldova 7 Singapore 7 Ireland 6 New Zealand 6 Costa Rica 6 Lithuania 6 Liberia 6 Armenia 5 Mongolia 5 Jamaica 5 Namibia 5 Slovenia 4 Lesotho 4 Estonia 4 Fiji 3 Cyprus 3 Malta 2 Brunei 2 Bahamas 2 Netherlands Antilles 2 Samoa 2 Guam 2 Micronesia 2 U.S. Virgin Islands 2 Aruba 2 American Samoa 2 San Marino 2 British Virgin Islands 2 Cook Islands 2 Palau 2 Is India really the #26 baseball-playing country in the world? I doubt it; try Googling "india baseball" sometime, and you won't find much. (They seems to play some other game with a ball and a bat.) But, lacking any other hard data, I decided to rank these 85 countries by population -- and India has 1,080,264,388 or so people, according to Wikipedia. That's a lot of people, yes? Would it really be that hard to scare up a 25-man roster out of a billion people? And what about the countries that aren't even in the IBAF, starting with Pakistan...144 million people without a ballclub? OK, let's make Pakistan a 20 -- a replacement level country, if you will -- and rate the rest: Bangladesh 20 Vietnam 19 Egypt 18 Ethiopia 18 Democratic Republic of the Congo 16 Sudan 13 Tanzania 13 Algeria 12 Afghanistan 11 Nepal 11 Saudi Arabia 11 Iraq 11 Yemen 9 Mozambique 9 Syria 9 Madagascar 9 Burkina Faso 8 Cambodia 8 Malawi 7 Niger 7 Angola 7 Senegal 7 Chad 7 Guinea 6 Somalia 6 Rwanda 6 Haiti 6 Azerbaijan 6 Benin 6 Tajikistan 6 Burundi 5 Paraguay 5 Laos 5 Sierra Leone 5 Libya 5 Jordan 5 Kyrgyzstan 5 Turkmenistan 5 Eritrea 4 Bosnia and Herzegovina 4 Lebanon 4 Central African Republic 4 Albania 4 Uruguay 4 Mauritania 4 Republic of the Congo 4 Oman 4 United Arab Emirates 3 West Bank 3 Kuwait 3 Latvia 3 Bhutan 3 Republic of Macedonia 3 Botswana 3 The Gambia 3 Guinea-Bissau 2 Gabon 2 Gaza Strip 2 Mauritius 2 Swaziland 2 Trinidad and Tobago 2 East Timor 2 Qatar 2 Réunion 2 Guyana 2 Bahrain 2 Comoros 2 Solomon Islands 2 Equatorial Guinea 2 Djibouti 1 Luxembourg 1 Macau SAR (PRC) 1 Guadeloupe 1 Suriname 1 Martinique 1 Cape Verde 1 Maldives 1 Iceland 1 Belize 1 Barbados 1 Western Sahara 1 French Polynesia 1 New Caledonia 1 Vanuatu 1 French Guiana 1 Mayotte 1 São Tomé and Príncipe 1 Saint Lucia 1 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 1 Tonga 1 Kiribati 1 Jersey 1 Grenada 1 Seychelles 1 Northern Mariana Islands 1 Isle of Man 1 Andorra 1 Dominica 1 Antigua and Barbuda 1 Bermuda 1 Guernsey 1 Marshall Islands 1 Greenland 1 Faroe Islands 0 Cayman Islands 0 Saint Kitts and Nevis 0 Liechtenstein 0 Monaco 0 Gibraltar 0 Turks and Caicos Islands 0 Wallis and Futuna 0 Anguilla 0 Nauru 0 Tuvalu 0 I drew the line at countries with 10,000 people. Putting it all together: U.S.A. 100 Cuba 90 Japan 88 South Korea 86 Panama 84 Canada 82 Chinese Taipei 80 Mexico 78 Nicaragua 76 Dominican Republic 74 Netherlands 72 Brazil 70 Puerto Rico 68 China 66 Italy 64 Australia 62 Colombia 60 Philippines 58 Russia 56 South Africa 54 France 52 Spain 50 Sweden 48 Greece 46 Czech Republic 44 India 42 Indonesia 40 Pakistan 39 Nigeria 36 Germany 29 Turkey 26 Iran 26 Thailand 25 Great Britain 24 Ukraine 21 Myanmar 21 Argentina 20 Poland 20 Bangladesh 20 Vietnam 19 Kenya 18 Morocco 18 Egypt 18 Ethiopia 18 Perú 17 Uganda 16 Uzbekistan 16 Malaysia 16 Venezuela 16 Dem Rep of Congo 16 North Korea 15 Romania 15 Ghana 14 Sri Lanka 14 Ivory Coast 13 Cameroon 13 Chile 13 Kazakhstan 13 Sudan 13 Tanzania 13 Guatemala 12 Algeria 12 Ecuador 11 Zimbabwe 11 Mali 11 Zambia 11 Afghanistan 11 Nepal 11 Saudi Arabia 11 Iraq 11 Serbia and Montenegro 10 Portugal 10 Belgium 10 Belarus 10 Hungary 10 Tunisia 10 Bolivia 9 Austria 9 Switzerland 9 Bulgaria 9 Yemen 9 Mozambique 9 Syria 9 Madagascar 9 Honduras 8 Israel 8 Hong Kong 8 El Salvador 8 Burkina Faso 8 Cambodia 8 Togo 7 Papua New Guinea 7 Denmark 7 Slovakia 7 Finland 7 Georgia 7 Norway 7 Croatia 7 Moldova 7 Singapore 7 Malawi 7 Niger 7 Angola 7 Senegal 7 Chad 7 Ireland 6 New Zealand 6 Costa Rica 6 Lithuania 6 Liberia 6 Guinea 6 Somalia 6 Rwanda 6 Haiti 6 Azerbaijan 6 Benin 6 Tajikistan 6 Armenia 5 Mongolia 5 Jamaica 5 Namibia 5 Burundi 5 Paraguay 5 Laos 5 Sierra Leone 5 Libya 5 Jordan 5 Kyrgyzstan 5 Turkmenistan 5 Slovenia 4 Lesotho 4 Estonia 4 Eritrea 4 Bosnia and Herzegovina 4 Lebanon 4 Central African Republic 4 Albania 4 Uruguay 4 Mauritania 4 Republic of the Congo 4 Oman 4 Fiji 3 Cyprus 3 United Arab Emirates 3 West Bank 3 Kuwait 3 Latvia 3 Bhutan 3 Republic of Macedonia 3 Botswana 3 The Gambia 3 Malta 2 Brunei 2 Bahamas 2 Netherlands Antilles 2 Samoa 2 Guam 2 Micronesia 2 U.S. Virgin Islands 2 Aruba 2 American Samoa 2 San Marino 2 British Virgin Islands 2 Cook Islands 2 Palau 2 Guinea-Bissau 2 Gabon 2 Gaza Strip 2 Mauritius 2 Swaziland 2 Trinidad and Tobago 2 East Timor 2 Qatar 2 Réunion 2 Guyana 2 Bahrain 2 Comoros 2 Solomon Islands 2 Equatorial Guinea 2 Djibouti 1 Luxembourg 1 Macau SAR (PRC) 1 Guadeloupe 1 Suriname 1 Martinique 1 Cape Verde 1 Maldives 1 Iceland 1 Belize 1 Barbados 1 Western Sahara 1 French Polynesia 1 New Caledonia 1 Vanuatu 1 French Guiana 1 Mayotte 1 São Tomé and Príncipe 1 Saint Lucia 1 St Vincent/Grenadines 1 Tonga 1 Kiribati 1 Jersey 1 Grenada 1 Seychelles 1 Northern Mariana Islands 1 Isle of Man 1 Andorra 1 Dominica 1 Antigua and Barbuda 1 Bermuda 1 Guernsey 1 Marshall Islands 1 Greenland 1 Faroe Islands 0 Cayman Islands 0 Saint Kitts and Nevis 0 Liechtenstein 0 Monaco 0 Gibraltar 0 Turks and Caicos Islands 0 Wallis and Futuna 0 Anguilla 0 Nauru 0 Tuvalu 0 That's 224 countries, each with their own league. Figure eight teams in each league, and 200 players in each team's system...that's 358,400 players! Ouch. Gotta get outta the house more...

01-19-2006, 06:40 PM	#2
jm47048 All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,247	This is great stuff but I gotta tell ya, you need a life Just kidding. This is great information that I think I will use to create my own league set. __________________ The New York Yankees World Series Champions 1923, 1927, 1928, 1932, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1941, 1943, 1947, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1956, 1958, 1961, 1962, 1977, 1978, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2009 American League Champions 1921, 1922, 1923, 1926, 1927, 1928, 1932, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1947, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1981, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2009, 2024

01-19-2006, 08:38 PM	#3
spark240 All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Highest county in the Virginia hills Posts: 637	[QUOTE=RMc]...But just how good are different countries at baseball? ... Venezuela 16 ... Umm...no. The formula needs some work, bud.

01-19-2006, 10:03 PM	#7
a1steak Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 44	That's just wrong, dued. The Devil Rays aren't that bad...

01-20-2006, 11:05 AM	#10
RMc All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,715	Venezuela 16 ... Umm...no. The formula needs some work, bud. Quite right, considering Venezuela's produced 181 major leaguers. And, in fact, they placed 6th at the 2002 Intercontinental Cup, which I overlooked. Let's put them even with Colombia with a Power rating of 60 (for now). Time for some more tweaking, using factors such as (a) big leaguers produced; (b) popularity of other outdoor sports like cricket and soccer; and (c) location, location, location.

01-20-2006, 12:26 PM	#11
RMc All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,715	OK, here's an update. That's cricket, mate I downgraded countries that are full members of the International Cricket Council, largely by dividing their power ratings by the square root of 2. (When you have a math background like mine, you always want to divide or multiply everything by the square root of two...it's just such a perfect number ) The full members are India, New Zealand, Pakistan, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, UK, Australia, South Africa and the West Indies. (I left Australia's and South Africa's ratings alone, since they're both in the Top 26 and have proved themselves in international baseball competition; also I kept West Indies [actually several island nations] and the UK the same because of their contributions to MLB [see below].) A kick in the grass Interestingly, many of the top teams in the FIFA world rankings [like Brazil, Mexico, the US and the Czech Republic (!)] are also in Baseball's Top 26. (Probably a function of the fact that they're just plain large countries, or are in a warm-weather part of the planet, or both.) So the only countries I decided to ding because they had good soccer teams were Argentina and Portugal, and not by much. Goin' the big leagues Here's a complete list of the foreign countries that have produced at least five MLB players (thanks, Baseball-Reference): Dominican Republic 410 Puerto Rico 215 Canada 205 Venezuela 181 Cuba 150 Mexico 98 Panama 45 Germany (incl. W. Germany) 41 Ireland 40 Japan 32 England 30 Australia 19 South Korea 12 Virgin Islands 10 France 8 Nicaragua 8 Scotland 8 Colombia 7 Italy 6 Holland 6 Bahamas 5 Curacao 5 Russia 5 I don't know what's more amazing...the fact that the Dominicans have produced 410 major leaguers, or the fact that Haiti, located on the very same island as the DR, has never produced any! Germany, Ireland and (especially) Venezuela, the only countries high on this list that weren't in the original Power ratings Top 25, get a boost. And the UK and the Carribean nations get to stay where they are and not pay the Cricket Tax. Hot enough for you? I decided not to award (or take away) any points for weather, since any baseball-playing country worth their salt has to have at least part of their territory in nice weather most of the time. Besides, what's the point in punishing Greenland further? So now, here's the updated list (I eliminated the zeroes, wise guys ): U.S.A. 100 Cuba 90 Japan 88 South Korea 86 Panama 84 Canada 82 Chinese Taipei 80 Mexico 78 Nicaragua 76 Rep.Dominicana 74 Netherlands 72 Brazil 70 Puerto Rico 68 China 66 Italy 64 Australia 62 Colombia 60 Venezuela 60 Philippines 58 Russia 56 South Africa 54 France 52 Spain 50 Sweden 48 Greece 46 Czech Republic 44 Indonesia 40 Nigeria 36 Germany 31 India 30 Pakistan 29 Iran 26 Turkey 26 Thailand 25 Great Britain 24 Myanmar 21 Ukraine 21 Poland 20 Vietnam 19 Egypt 18 Ethiopia 18 Kenya 18 Morocco 18 Perú 17 Democratic Republic of the Congo 16 Malaysia 16 Uganda 16 Uzbekistan 16 North Korea 15 Romania 15 Argentina 14 Bangladesh 14 Ghana 14 Cameroon 13 Chile 13 Ivory Coast 13 Kazakhstan 13 Sudan 13 Tanzania 13 Algeria 12 Guatemala 12 Afghanistan 11 Ecuador 11 Iraq 11 Mali 11 Nepal 11 Saudi Arabia 11 Zambia 11 Belarus 10 Belgium 10 Hungary 10 Serbia and Montenegro 10 Sri Lanka 10 Tunisia 10 Austria 9 Bolivia 9 Bulgaria 9 Madagascar 9 Mozambique 9 Switzerland 9 Syria 9 Yemen 9 Burkina Faso 8 Cambodia 8 El Salvador 8 Honduras 8 Hong Kong 8 Israel 8 Portugal 8 Zimbabwe 8 Angola 7 Chad 7 Croatia 7 Denmark 7 Finland 7 Georgia 7 Malawi 7 Moldova 7 Niger 7 Norway 7 Papua New Guinea 7 Senegal 7 Singapore 7 Slovakia 7 Togo 7 Azerbaijan 6 Benin 6 Costa Rica 6 Guinea 6 Haiti 6 Ireland 6 Liberia 6 Lithuania 6 Rwanda 6 Somalia 6 Tajikistan 6 Armenia 5 Burundi 5 Jamaica 5 Jordan 5 Kyrgyzstan 5 Laos 5 Libya 5 Mongolia 5 Namibia 5 New Zealand 5 Paraguay 5 Sierra Leone 5 Turkmenistan 5 Albania 4 Bosnia and Herzegovina 4 Central African Republic 4 Eritrea 4 Estonia 4 Lebanon 4 Lesotho 4 Mauritania 4 Oman 4 Republic of the Congo 4 Slovenia 4 Uruguay 4 Bhutan 3 Botswana 3 Cyprus 3 Fiji 3 Kuwait 3 Latvia 3 Republic of Macedonia 3 The Gambia 3 United Arab Emirates 3 West Bank 3 American Samoa 2 Aruba 2 Bahamas 2 Bahrain 2 British Virgin Islands 2 Brunei 2 Comoros 2 Cook Islands 2 East Timor 2 Equatorial Guinea 2 Gabon 2 Gaza Strip 2 Guam 2 Guinea-Bissau 2 Guyana 2 Malta 2 Mauritius 2 Micronesia 2 Netherlands Antilles 2 Palau 2 Qatar 2 Réunion 2 Samoa 2 San Marino 2 Solomon Islands 2 Swaziland 2 Trinidad and Tobago 2 U.S. Virgin Islands 2 Andorra 1 Anguilla 1 Antigua and Barbuda 1 Barbados 1 Belize 1 Bermuda 1 Cape Verde 1 Cayman Islands 1 Djibouti 1 Dominica 1 Faroe Islands 1 French Guiana 1 French Polynesia 1 Gibraltar 1 Greenland 1 Grenada 1 Guadeloupe 1 Guernsey 1 Iceland 1 Isle of Man 1 Jersey 1 Kiribati 1 Liechtenstein 1 Luxembourg 1 Macau SAR (PRC) 1 Maldives 1 Marshall Islands 1 Martinique 1 Mayotte 1 Monaco 1 Nauru 1 New Caledonia 1 Northern Mariana Islands 1 Saint Kitts and Nevis 1 Saint Lucia 1 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 1 São Tomé and Príncipe 1 Seychelles 1 Suriname 1 Tonga 1 Turks and Caicos Islands 1 Tuvalu 1 Vanuatu 1 Wallis and Futuna 1 Western Sahara 1 No, I feel fine. Why do you ask...?

01-20-2006, 01:26 PM	#12
s7venrw Bat Boy Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 19	My goal, depending on how the financials are run, is this: I'm not going to create leagues in every country, but I might do it for every geographical area. For example: The US will have a league with 51 teams (50 states + D.C.), Canada and Greenland will have a league with a team for every province, Mexico will have a league with a team for everyone of their states, Central America/the Carribian will have a league for their countries, Europe will have a league with teams for every one of their countries, etc. If the countries have a league of some sort, I'm going to try to imitate their leagues in schedule and team format (e.g mexico's teams have 28 players rather than 25 and have a shorter schedule) I plan on making the stadiums as real as possible and hope to simulate the whether as much as possible, and want the market to reflect the population and the Gross National/State Product. Avg. Elevation and ballpark dimensions will determine hitting factors. This is going to take a lot of work, but I think it would be fun.

01-23-2006, 04:22 AM	#13
Kelric Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Greater Boston Area Posts: 3,992	Latvia with a 3! Rock on homeland of my grandparents!

01-23-2006, 08:23 PM	#16
perezh Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 38	I find it hard to believe that the Rep. Dominicana (Dominican Republic) is not ranked higher. The major reason why they don't do as well in international tournaments is because their country is picked about by the major leagues starting when the best kids are 13 and 14. Maybe I misread the study's purpose, but the Dominican Republic's output of major leaguers puts it way ahead of countries like South Korea, Japan, Mexico and others.

01-23-2006, 11:13 PM	#17
Kivlehan Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Allentown, PA Posts: 160	You've gotta give some of these European countries more props. You're rating Kazhakstan above Ireland and other European countries that have national teams and play in tournaments: http://www.baseballireland.com/national_team.htm Plus Ireland has at least contributed a significant number of big leaguers. In the 1890s, many big leaguers either came from Ireland or were 1st generation. Give the Emerald Isle some props for this. At least more respect than Zimbabwe and such places.

01-26-2006, 03:21 AM	#18
Twelvefield All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,188	OOTPB probably won't model this, but here's food for thought: it may be difficult to run a league that spans too many time zones, i.e. the Canada -Greenland league. The CFL (Canadian Football League) has enough problems with this as it is, I can't imagine there would be very many alert viewers for the Vancouver-Qaanaaq series. That, and Greenland has closer ties to Denmark than Canada, with Greenland being the stick that's stirring the enmity pot between us Canucks and those Danish over Hans Island.

01-26-2006, 08:44 AM	#20
schielma Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hamilton, OH Posts: 94	I just have one question. How does a person really have this much free time to do this much research on such an "interesting" topic?