MAJOR issue with 6.5

Deft · 10-18-2005, 01:28 AM

For some reason the game is ignoring the relief order for my bullpen. I have a rising star reliever that I want to get some playing time mid-season. But whatever I do the game will not put him in. I have several relievers that are better right now than him and they get the appearances while Dean Spangler sits.

Here's the team:
http://athl-online.com/stats/team20.html

Here's the last 7 games:
http://athl-online.com/stats/box.html

and here's the player:
http://athl-online.com/stats/p1300.html

mrbill · 10-18-2005, 04:24 AM

Will the AI favor playing the prospects if you set your "team focus" to rebuilding?

Deft · 10-18-2005, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbill

Will the AI favor playing the prospects if you set your "team focus" to rebuilding?

It might, but I am retooling not rebuilding and other positions I would like the prospects to sit. I just want the computer to substitute based on the pitching staff setup I chose.

eriqjaffe · 10-18-2005, 01:46 PM

I notice that you have Spanger in the first two slots in the MR section - could that be messing things up?

mrbill · 10-18-2005, 02:34 PM

Yeah, that's just one of the things you're going to be stuck with for now.

The ordering of pitchers within a role is not used when the AI decides who to bring in. Your prospect is the worst of the bunch in the pen, so if you want him to get work, AAA is the place for him to be.

battists · 10-18-2005, 04:02 PM

I have the same "issue" to a certain extent. This is one thing I'd really like to see with more flexibility in the new version. The AI seems to really favor certain pitchers in the pen. I have two pitchers with very similar numbers, yet the AI will pitch one guy into the ground, and the other guy will get close to 0 IP.

Without playing the games yourself, there's not many ways to change who the AI puts in.

I'm also aggravated by the fact that I gave up good prospects to acquire this absurdly good closer, and one month into the season, my right-handed setup man has 3 saves, and my closer has 4. I look in the game logs, and the AI keeps putting the setup guy in to close out the games. GRRR.

Anyway, what can you do?

Deft · 10-18-2005, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbill

Yeah, that's just one of the things you're going to be stuck with for now.

The ordering of pitchers within a role is not used when the AI decides who to bring in. Your prospect is the worst of the bunch in the pen, so if you want him to get work, AAA is the place for him to be.

For all this time, I thought it meant something. He's already spent a year and a half in AAA and didn't develop. His stuff rating has gone from 19 to 35 this season.

battists · 10-18-2005, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deft

For all this time, I thought it meant something. He's already spent a year and a half in AAA and didn't develop. His stuff rating has gone from 19 to 35 this season.

That's the fun thing about player development. You don't know if the 19 to 35 jump in stuff is because he's in the bigs, or whether he might have leapt up to 50 if you'd left him in AAA.

ssmarsh · 10-19-2005, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbill

The ordering of pitchers within a role is not used when the AI decides who to bring in.

That is one of my biggest complaints about OOTP. IF I set an order, OOTP should only deviate from it depending on whether the relievers are tired or not. I can't count the number of games where I've seen my set-up guy go in to get the save while my closer sits on the bench and never plays because OOTP likes the set-up guy more. This needs to be fixed in future OOTP versions.

Maybe have a "strict order" for bullpen rotations similar to starting rotations?

rem · 10-19-2005, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssmarsh

OOTP should only deviate from it depending on whether the relievers are tired or not.

I think the problem is that OOTP feels, righty or wrongly, that it needs to deviate from it in order to make sure that everyone stays not tired.

Bluenoser · 10-19-2005, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssmarsh

That is one of my biggest complaints about OOTP. IF I set an order, OOTP should only deviate from it depending on whether the relievers are tired or not. I can't count the number of games where I've seen my set-up guy go in to get the save while my closer sits on the bench and never plays because OOTP likes the set-up guy more. This needs to be fixed in future OOTP versions.

Maybe have a "strict order" for bullpen rotations similar to starting rotations?

I don't think "strict order" would be the solution. If I have two setup guys, #1 and #2 and OOTP just continues to use them in order, that's not good. There may be times when I want to use the same guy 3 or 4 times in a row and there may times when I want to use the other guy 3 or 4 times in a row.Theoretically the solution to this is managing each game individually. Realistically I know that's just not possible for a lot of people and online leagues. Still, I wouldn't want a "strict rotation" for my bullpen. I like the idea that OOTP keeps one guy from getting tired by spreading the workload. That's what real life managers do.

battists · 10-19-2005, 09:36 AM

I think it would be cool to have sliders for relievers in the team setup. They could be things like:

Trust - the higher the trust you have in a pitcher, the more likely the AI would be to put them in
Favor Rested Pitchers - the higher this value is, the less likely the AI would be to put in a pitcher who threw 35 pitches yesterday
Respect Pitching Roles - The higher this is, the more likely it would be that the AI would pitch your closer as your closer, instead of putting in your middle relief pitcher to get the save. Similarly, setup men would be used as setup men.

Combined with settings for "pitch count," "favor lefty/righty matchups," and "hook", that would make it pretty flexible.

Some other possibilities:

"never pitch this player for more than X innings" - for cases like you see in MLB all the time - the setup guy who NEVER pitches more than one inning

"favor between innings changes" - stop the AI from changing relief pitches after 1 out, unless absolutely necessary

Anyway, just some thoughts. Probably too late to get this to Markus!

Sublimity · 10-19-2005, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

Probably too late to get this to Markus!

You gotta believe! (Plus, there are always patches)

Why not throw this in the wishlist forum? These are some good ideas.

battists · 10-19-2005, 09:56 AM

Done! At least, for my comments.

f.montoya · 10-19-2005, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

I think it would be cool to have sliders for relievers in the team setup. They could be things like:

Trust - the higher the trust you have in a pitcher, the more likely the AI would be to put them in
Favor Rested Pitchers - the higher this value is, the less likely the AI would be to put in a pitcher who threw 35 pitches yesterday
Respect Pitching Roles - The higher this is, the more likely it would be that the AI would pitch your closer as your closer, instead of putting in your middle relief pitcher to get the save. Similarly, setup men would be used as setup men.

Combined with settings for "pitch count," "favor lefty/righty matchups," and "hook", that would make it pretty flexible.

Some other possibilities:

"never pitch this player for more than X innings" - for cases like you see in MLB all the time - the setup guy who NEVER pitches more than one inning

"favor between innings changes" - stop the AI from changing relief pitches after 1 out, unless absolutely necessary

Anyway, just some thoughts. Probably too late to get this to Markus!

I'll second this. Markus?

Bluenoser · 10-19-2005, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

I think it would be cool to have sliders for relievers in the team setup. They could be things like:

Trust - the higher the trust you have in a pitcher, the more likely the AI would be to put them in
Favor Rested Pitchers - the higher this value is, the less likely the AI would be to put in a pitcher who threw 35 pitches yesterday
Respect Pitching Roles - The higher this is, the more likely it would be that the AI would pitch your closer as your closer, instead of putting in your middle relief pitcher to get the save. Similarly, setup men would be used as setup men.

Combined with settings for "pitch count," "favor lefty/righty matchups," and "hook", that would make it pretty flexible.

Some other possibilities:

"never pitch this player for more than X innings" - for cases like you see in MLB all the time - the setup guy who NEVER pitches more than one inning

"favor between innings changes" - stop the AI from changing relief pitches after 1 out, unless absolutely necessary

Anyway, just some thoughts. Probably too late to get this to Markus!

As long as this is optional or there's a default setting that leaves things the way they are now, I think it would be a nice addition.

Bluenoser · 10-19-2005, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

Done! At least, for my comments.

You should put it in the OOTP2006 Suggestions/Wishlist Forum rather than the technical assistance forum.

battists · 10-19-2005, 10:17 AM

Oh hey, looky that. I never even noticed that forum.

Done!

sporr · 10-21-2005, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceM

I don't think "strict order" would be the solution. If I have two setup guys, #1 and #2 and OOTP just continues to use them in order, that's not good. There may be times when I want to use the same guy 3 or 4 times in a row and there may times when I want to use the other guy 3 or 4 times in a row.Theoretically the solution to this is managing each game individually. Realistically I know that's just not possible for a lot of people and online leagues. Still, I wouldn't want a "strict rotation" for my bullpen. I like the idea that OOTP keeps one guy from getting tired by spreading the workload. That's what real life managers do.

Or maybe the ability to set your relief "rotation" per schedule day just as you can with your batting order.

endgame · 10-21-2005, 08:37 PM

Obviously, the AI is evaluating either the current status or the likelihood of a pitcher's "tired" level. In one sense, simply establishing a linear percentage of allowance and the ability to dictate a definition of acceptable tolerance would in turn alleviate most of that decision making.

While I would have no grasp of the existing vernacular, it would be simply on the order, on a pitcher by pitcher basis, of the day-to-day injury. The %'s are there or they aren't. Assign Dodson an 88 and he'll be allowed an appearance under the AI's assessment if he's within that range. Assign Gibbers a 22 and the likelihood of his relief appearance is diminished (you want to keep him fresh as often as possible). And so on....

Of course this applies almost solely to simulated play as the solo player, more often than not, makes all those decisions manually anyway.

10-18-2005, 01:46 PM	#4
eriqjaffe Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Location: Under The Christmas Fish Posts: 7,718	I notice that you have Spanger in the first two slots in the MR section - could that be messing things up? __________________

10-18-2005, 02:34 PM	#5
mrbill All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: LA, CA Posts: 982	Yeah, that's just one of the things you're going to be stuck with for now. The ordering of pitchers within a role is not used when the AI decides who to bring in. Your prospect is the worst of the bunch in the pen, so if you want him to get work, AAA is the place for him to be. __________________ UBL - Best Online League Evar! - Los Angeles Dodgers: 25 seasons, 13 NL West titles, 4 WC, 8 NL Titles, 5-time Champs LBB v5 league (retired) - Detroit Tigers/Commish: 19 seasons, 18 straight AL Central titles, 2006, 2008, 2014, 2015 Champs! NGBL v6 league (dead) - Texas Rangers: 10 seasons, 4 AL South titles, 2 Wild Cards, one WS app

10-21-2005, 08:37 PM	#20
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	Obviously, the AI is evaluating either the current status or the likelihood of a pitcher's "tired" level. In one sense, simply establishing a linear percentage of allowance and the ability to dictate a definition of acceptable tolerance would in turn alleviate most of that decision making. While I would have no grasp of the existing vernacular, it would be simply on the order, on a pitcher by pitcher basis, of the day-to-day injury. The %'s are there or they aren't. Assign Dodson an 88 and he'll be allowed an appearance under the AI's assessment if he's within that range. Assign Gibbers a 22 and the likelihood of his relief appearance is diminished (you want to keep him fresh as often as possible). And so on.... Of course this applies almost solely to simulated play as the solo player, more often than not, makes all those decisions manually anyway. __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________

10-18-2005, 01:28 AM	#1
Deft All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,112	MAJOR issue with 6.5 For some reason the game is ignoring the relief order for my bullpen. I have a rising star reliever that I want to get some playing time mid-season. But whatever I do the game will not put him in. I have several relievers that are better right now than him and they get the appearances while Dean Spangler sits. Here's the team: http://athl-online.com/stats/team20.html Here's the last 7 games: http://athl-online.com/stats/box.html and here's the player: http://athl-online.com/stats/p1300.html __________________ ATHL Louisville Jockeys (2001-present) 2002, 2007, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2020 World Champions Uniform Template 1.2

10-18-2005, 04:24 AM	#2
mrbill All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: LA, CA Posts: 982	Will the AI favor playing the prospects if you set your "team focus" to rebuilding? __________________ UBL - Best Online League Evar! - Los Angeles Dodgers: 25 seasons, 13 NL West titles, 4 WC, 8 NL Titles, 5-time Champs LBB v5 league (retired) - Detroit Tigers/Commish: 19 seasons, 18 straight AL Central titles, 2006, 2008, 2014, 2015 Champs! NGBL v6 league (dead) - Texas Rangers: 10 seasons, 4 AL South titles, 2 Wild Cards, one WS app

10-18-2005, 04:02 PM	#6
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	I have the same "issue" to a certain extent. This is one thing I'd really like to see with more flexibility in the new version. The AI seems to really favor certain pitchers in the pen. I have two pitchers with very similar numbers, yet the AI will pitch one guy into the ground, and the other guy will get close to 0 IP. Without playing the games yourself, there's not many ways to change who the AI puts in. I'm also aggravated by the fact that I gave up good prospects to acquire this absurdly good closer, and one month into the season, my right-handed setup man has 3 saves, and my closer has 4. I look in the game logs, and the AI keeps putting the setup guy in to close out the games. GRRR. Anyway, what can you do?

10-19-2005, 09:36 AM	#12
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	I think it would be cool to have sliders for relievers in the team setup. They could be things like: Trust - the higher the trust you have in a pitcher, the more likely the AI would be to put them in Favor Rested Pitchers - the higher this value is, the less likely the AI would be to put in a pitcher who threw 35 pitches yesterday Respect Pitching Roles - The higher this is, the more likely it would be that the AI would pitch your closer as your closer, instead of putting in your middle relief pitcher to get the save. Similarly, setup men would be used as setup men. Combined with settings for "pitch count," "favor lefty/righty matchups," and "hook", that would make it pretty flexible. Some other possibilities: "never pitch this player for more than X innings" - for cases like you see in MLB all the time - the setup guy who NEVER pitches more than one inning "favor between innings changes" - stop the AI from changing relief pitches after 1 out, unless absolutely necessary Anyway, just some thoughts. Probably too late to get this to Markus!

10-19-2005, 09:56 AM	#14
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	Done! At least, for my comments.

10-19-2005, 10:17 AM	#18
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	Oh hey, looky that. I never even noticed that forum. Done!