Shop player

zonk84 · 06-14-2005, 10:26 PM

Haven't seen this one praised yet -- so let me say I LOVE this feature.... No more offering the veteran contract to all 29 teams, then trying to remember which was the best offer.

One thing I've love to see would be the ability to "click and accept" from the shopping report rather than going to the trade screen, but a minor quibble and I do realize its coming from a report, not the game interface.

One issue concerning trades, though -- it seems the AI still doesn't like to offer up players NOT on the 40 man roster? Thus far -- I DEFINITELY think Markus did a great job on the player evals - the AI team's roster management seems much better - waiver more realistic, most 40 mans are generally what I would guess....

However - like I said - offering a player still only seems to return offers from the players 40 man, at least so far as I can tell. Additionally - the reverse is true, at least in the players that the AI will accept list, the AI only seems to ask for non 40 man players back.

Still -- so far, this looks and plays like a STEAL for $10!

SackAttack · 06-14-2005, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zonk84

Haven't seen this one praised yet -- so let me say I LOVE this feature.... No more offering the veteran contract to all 29 teams, then trying to remember which was the best offer.

One thing I've love to see would be the ability to "click and accept" from the shopping report rather than going to the trade screen, but a minor quibble and I do realize its coming from a report, not the game interface.

One issue concerning trades, though -- it seems the AI still doesn't like to offer up players NOT on the 40 man roster? Thus far -- I DEFINITELY think Markus did a great job on the player evals - the AI team's roster management seems much better - waiver more realistic, most 40 mans are generally what I would guess....

However - like I said - offering a player still only seems to return offers from the players 40 man, at least so far as I can tell. Additionally - the reverse is true, at least in the players that the AI will accept list, the AI only seems to ask for non 40 man players back.

Still -- so far, this looks and plays like a STEAL for $10!

What's interesting is that the players a team is willing to offer seems to be at least somewhat fluid. When I shopped an older guy, there wasn't much out there that other teams were willing to give up for him.

When I put him on waivers and Atlanta claimed him, however, they were willing to give up a decent young prospect (***) in trade for him - a player they hadn't orignally offered when I did the 'shop player.'

I don't know if that's because he wasn't on the 40-man roster, or if they were willing to give up more once they had a definite interest in him.

rdklein · 06-14-2005, 10:35 PM

yeah, this is a pretty cool feature.

You'll Thank Me Later · 06-14-2005, 11:23 PM

If you pay attention, check semi-regularly, and know the other teams' rosters you can pull off a small raid once in a while with this feature.

You'll Thank Me Later · 06-14-2005, 11:24 PM

And I don't think that's an exploit. If you read Moneyball, you're just doing things Billy Beane style. "What will you give me for this guy I want to move...no, not him, no, no, not that guy, nope...yeah, I'll take that guy."

Giants44 · 06-14-2005, 11:45 PM

where is this feature? I can't find it

Giants44 · 06-14-2005, 11:47 PM

never mind - just found it

for others interested - it is on the players card

Vezna31 · 06-14-2005, 11:59 PM

It's a great feature, but I don't think it works well. I just shopped my 5-star pitcher who is 33 years old and won 31 games last season and got offered nothing but 1-star duds. If I go to the trade screen, I got plenty of good offerings from teams individually including another team's 5-star starter and 5-star prospects from others.

Gil Thorp · 06-15-2005, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by You'll Thank Me Later

If you read Moneyball, you're just doing things Billy Beane style."

I guess I won't like this feature.

jbmagic · 06-15-2005, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vezna31

It's a great feature, but I don't think it works well. I just shopped my 5-star pitcher who is 33 years old and won 31 games last season and got offered nothing but 1-star duds. If I go to the trade screen, I got plenty of good offerings from teams individually including another team's 5-star starter and 5-star prospects from others.

wow so its not consistent? shop player and trade screen

how is your player AI evaluation weight %?

i hear you get better result if you do the % high on rating and low on stats.

Vezna31 · 06-15-2005, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbmagic

wow so its not consistent? shop player and trade screen

how is your player AI evaluation weight %?

i hear you get better result if you do the % high on rating and low on stats.

I'm in the month of April:

Ratings - 50%
Last year - 30%, drop to 25% in Sept
Current year - 0%, increases 5% with every month played
two years ago - 20%, decreases 5% with every month played

AI Trading preference is neutral.

jbmagic · 06-15-2005, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vezna31

I'm in the month of April:

Ratings - 50%
Last year - 30%, drop to 25% in Sept
Current year - 0%, increases 5% with every month played
two years ago - 20%, decreases 5% with every month played

AI Trading preference is neutral.

try to up the % for current rating over 70% and see how the shop player goes

JDOldSchool · 06-15-2005, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gil Thorp

I guess I won't like this feature.

You should join the online league I'm in. My sabermetrically-configured Kansas City Royals team is enjoying the best record in the American League in just my third year (I took over a team that finished 71-91 and with little hope for the future). I'd like to know the reason for the anti-Moneyball sentement. It works.

Vezna31 · 06-15-2005, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbmagic

try to up the % for current rating over 70% and see how the shop player goes

I used 80% on ratings and shopped and I got the same list of players as before. They are all 1-star players for my 5-star #1 pitcher.

jbmagic · 06-15-2005, 10:29 AM

is anybody else seeing different trade offers if you use shop player and then goto trade screen. you will get different offers from teams that you didnt from shop player?

why its not the same?

Gil Thorp · 06-15-2005, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

I'd like to know the reason for the anti-Moneyball sentement. It works.

Especially in a DIPS based baseball simulation game.

zonk84 · 06-15-2005, 10:42 AM

But, since someone brought up trading exploits with the AI --

I'll toss these minor quirks out there. Not complaining about them - if you don't want to cheat the AI, just don't use them, but a couple AI trading issue Markus may want to take a look at...

#1- Once you've settled on a trade with another team, the AI seems to recognize monetary inclusions in the package only in increments of 100k. For example -- you can ALWAYS get the AI to kick in 99,999 for the trade (if they have the money). Minor issue - but when I'm feeling especially mean, it's pretty easy to swindle an extra half mil or so just through trades. I usually set my team market to Tiny or Non-existant - but I can usually finance all my promotion days through opposing teams.

#2 - The AI should really look at pitchers more generically -- I DO like the way the AI is willing to give its stud 5 star prospect SPs their first taste of the majors by putting them in the bullpen, but the problem is -- while the AI absolutely won't trade that prospect except for a good return package when his position is noted as "Starter", if he ever gets shifted to "Reliever", it suddenly devalues the pitcher by quite a bit.

#3 - In general - reliever prospects seem to be a bit undervalued... A package of 5 non-entities can almost always get you a top shelf relief prospect. I notice this seems to have improved a bit in 6.5, but its still a bit too easy to build your stable of minor league relief prospects. Coupled with #2 above - this is a very easy way to build your staff. I know its been mentioned before as a possible enhancement - this is more fuel for the idea of eliminating pitcher roles and treating them more generically (i.e., factor the endurance rating like the other ratings). By carefully shopping for minor league relievers -- you almost never need to worry about drafting or trading for true closers or starters.

Not really complaining - its easy enough to just avoid "cheating" - but since OOTP6.5 did do such a good job updating the AI player eval routines, just thought I'd toss these out there as cracks that still seem to be present.

Pete Grassi · 06-15-2005, 10:45 AM

I almost wish Marcus would take the star system out of the game. I am sure there are many other factors. What is his record this season? WHat does his contract look like?

Cardinal Rule · 06-15-2005, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Grassi

I almost wish Marcus would take the star system out of the game. I am sure there are many other factors. What is his record this season? WHat does his contract look like?

I turn the stars off. Some like it but I find it too easy to just look only at the stars and nothing else, and that's not a very complete way to look at a player. I think somewhere down the line I'll probably turn ratings off too and just go off stats only. But I don't mind that the stars are there as long as you can toggle them - some people would rather have them.

Vezna31 · 06-15-2005, 12:25 PM

Ok, let me give more detail about the trade I looked at last night. I have a 35 year old #1 starter - ratings are stuff 36, control 73, movement 89. Last season, he was by far the best pitcher with a record of 31-11, 2.76 ERA. I think the next highest pitcher had 22 or 24 wins and an ERA over 3.00.

If I go to the normal trade screen, from one team, I get offered another 5-star premier pitcher in the league or a 4.5 star fielder that would make the deal. Other teams offer really good players as well as 5-star prospects.

When I use the shop around feature from the player card, all players offered are 1-gold star players. The best hitter had a 37 contact rating. I've even clicked on the player offered to make sure his contact wasn't low because he was an undeveloped 18 year old rookie and with a talent of 80. IMO, the game should give you a list consistent as if you go to every team individually.

06-14-2005, 11:23 PM	#4
You'll Thank Me Later Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ready to bite Posts: 193	If you pay attention, check semi-regularly, and know the other teams' rosters you can pull off a small raid once in a while with this feature. __________________ "If you don't care enough to search for the answer, or to give a good description of your problem, why should anybody take the time to help you?" - Dark Horse

06-14-2005, 11:24 PM	#5
You'll Thank Me Later Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ready to bite Posts: 193	And I don't think that's an exploit. If you read Moneyball, you're just doing things Billy Beane style. "What will you give me for this guy I want to move...no, not him, no, no, not that guy, nope...yeah, I'll take that guy." __________________ "If you don't care enough to search for the answer, or to give a good description of your problem, why should anybody take the time to help you?" - Dark Horse

06-14-2005, 11:59 PM	#8
Vezna31 All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: Wherever My VPN says Posts: 1,990	It's a great feature, but I don't think it works well. I just shopped my 5-star pitcher who is 33 years old and won 31 games last season and got offered nothing but 1-star duds. If I go to the trade screen, I got plenty of good offerings from teams individually including another team's 5-star starter and 5-star prospects from others. __________________ Owner/Operator - Vezna Financial Services - Accounting and taxes.

06-15-2005, 10:42 AM	#17
zonk84 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 263	I hesitate to add.... But, since someone brought up trading exploits with the AI -- I'll toss these minor quirks out there. Not complaining about them - if you don't want to cheat the AI, just don't use them, but a couple AI trading issue Markus may want to take a look at... #1- Once you've settled on a trade with another team, the AI seems to recognize monetary inclusions in the package only in increments of 100k. For example -- you can ALWAYS get the AI to kick in 99,999 for the trade (if they have the money). Minor issue - but when I'm feeling especially mean, it's pretty easy to swindle an extra half mil or so just through trades. I usually set my team market to Tiny or Non-existant - but I can usually finance all my promotion days through opposing teams. #2 - The AI should really look at pitchers more generically -- I DO like the way the AI is willing to give its stud 5 star prospect SPs their first taste of the majors by putting them in the bullpen, but the problem is -- while the AI absolutely won't trade that prospect except for a good return package when his position is noted as "Starter", if he ever gets shifted to "Reliever", it suddenly devalues the pitcher by quite a bit. #3 - In general - reliever prospects seem to be a bit undervalued... A package of 5 non-entities can almost always get you a top shelf relief prospect. I notice this seems to have improved a bit in 6.5, but its still a bit too easy to build your stable of minor league relief prospects. Coupled with #2 above - this is a very easy way to build your staff. I know its been mentioned before as a possible enhancement - this is more fuel for the idea of eliminating pitcher roles and treating them more generically (i.e., factor the endurance rating like the other ratings). By carefully shopping for minor league relievers -- you almost never need to worry about drafting or trading for true closers or starters. Not really complaining - its easy enough to just avoid "cheating" - but since OOTP6.5 did do such a good job updating the AI player eval routines, just thought I'd toss these out there as cracks that still seem to be present.

06-15-2005, 12:25 PM	#20
Vezna31 All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: Wherever My VPN says Posts: 1,990	Ok, let me give more detail about the trade I looked at last night. I have a 35 year old #1 starter - ratings are stuff 36, control 73, movement 89. Last season, he was by far the best pitcher with a record of 31-11, 2.76 ERA. I think the next highest pitcher had 22 or 24 wins and an ERA over 3.00. If I go to the normal trade screen, from one team, I get offered another 5-star premier pitcher in the league or a 4.5 star fielder that would make the deal. Other teams offer really good players as well as 5-star prospects. When I use the shop around feature from the player card, all players offered are 1-gold star players. The best hitter had a 37 contact rating. I've even clicked on the player offered to make sure his contact wasn't low because he was an undeveloped 18 year old rookie and with a talent of 80. IMO, the game should give you a list consistent as if you go to every team individually. __________________ Owner/Operator - Vezna Financial Services - Accounting and taxes.

06-14-2005, 10:26 PM	#1
zonk84 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 263	Shop player Haven't seen this one praised yet -- so let me say I LOVE this feature.... No more offering the veteran contract to all 29 teams, then trying to remember which was the best offer. One thing I've love to see would be the ability to "click and accept" from the shopping report rather than going to the trade screen, but a minor quibble and I do realize its coming from a report, not the game interface. One issue concerning trades, though -- it seems the AI still doesn't like to offer up players NOT on the 40 man roster? Thus far -- I DEFINITELY think Markus did a great job on the player evals - the AI team's roster management seems much better - waiver more realistic, most 40 mans are generally what I would guess.... However - like I said - offering a player still only seems to return offers from the players 40 man, at least so far as I can tell. Additionally - the reverse is true, at least in the players that the AI will accept list, the AI only seems to ask for non 40 man players back. Still -- so far, this looks and plays like a STEAL for $10!

06-14-2005, 10:35 PM	#3
rdklein All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: The other side. Posts: 773	yeah, this is a pretty cool feature.

06-14-2005, 11:45 PM	#6
Giants44 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 2,408	where is this feature? I can't find it

06-14-2005, 11:47 PM	#7
Giants44 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 2,408	never mind - just found it for others interested - it is on the players card

06-15-2005, 10:29 AM	#15
jbmagic Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,417	is anybody else seeing different trade offers if you use shop player and then goto trade screen. you will get different offers from teams that you didnt from shop player? why its not the same?

06-15-2005, 10:45 AM	#18
Pete Grassi Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 386	I almost wish Marcus would take the star system out of the game. I am sure there are many other factors. What is his record this season? WHat does his contract look like?