Gay and lesbian acceptance for team executives

[Anyone]

Originally Posted by TanzKommandant

A player's romantic life can affect his play and his team in numerous ways in real life. This happens with regularity.

If they ever decide to include stories about players' romantic lives, then not all players should be straight. As far as I know they don't currently include such stories. I don't personally see enough reason to add them.

They certainly should not add them just to have stories about sexual orientation, and as long as they aren't in the game, players' sexual orientation is not an issue in the game and you can imagine any player (especially if you use fictional players) as any orientation you want.

[TuckerDuckson]

Originally Posted by Anyone

If they ever decide to include stories about players' romantic lives, then not all players should be straight. As far as I know they don't currently include such stories. I don't personally see enough reason to add them.

They certainly should not add them just to have stories about sexual orientation, and as long as they aren't in the game, players' sexual orientation is not an issue in the game and you can imagine any player (especially if you use fictional players) as any orientation you want.

I know for a fact in OOTP17 there was the "so and so is out 13 months with a torn UCL after his wife hit him with a frying pan" and "so and so is out for 9 months with a concussion after an argument with his wife"

In OOTP18 I've seen the "wife complains about the team that the player is on stadium (usually happens when the player is angry at the team and demands a trade) and she says she wants to go somewhere else." And the "so and so has had a kid (name of the kid) both (player) and wife are super excited by this news, however (Player) has taken some time off with his wife to take care of the newborn" (basically a bereavement list announcement)

But see, changing any of these news story's (which you can actually do Tanz, go and change the news article in the notes second from "wife" to "husband" but I know your going to ignore this anyways) has little to no effect on the game as a whole. In total it's just a luxury thing that would be on the bottom of the list in fictional leagues.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by ForeverRoyalKC

Why can't everyone be included and just be quiet about it. If I had AIDS or cancer, I wouldn't be on here (or anywhere else) sounding off that the game should have an AIDS or cancer storyline!

I think the game *does* have cancer storylines though...

So as I see it you have a couple points for it and a couple against it:

For:

- Increased diversity (actually I think this would be pretty cool too). The game already has, like, zero issues creating black and Latino owners even as the overwhelming majority of owners are still older white men. Are people complaining about this? Because I haven't seen it.

- Storylines already exist and as such the personal lives of these fake players already impacts the game in some way. I actually can see a pretty decent argument here that by showing ballplayers getting married to women, getting into fights with their girlfriends, and so on, but never showing men marrying other men, it's denying the existence of gay relationships and so is stealth-guilty of second generation homophobia.

I realize that word is tough for people to look at, and I want to make it clear that in no way am I accusing Markus of being a homophobe. The whole entire point of second generation bigotry is that it's not caused by bigots; indeed, it's often caused by otherwise well-meaning people who simply never had cause to think about a particular issue.

- The game also doesn't have women owners ATM so this probably needs to recoded for verisimilitude anyway, women owners absolutely having been a part of baseball's history.

Cons:

- It *would* require an additional field or two in the database as well as a spot to change the pronoun genders. I'm not unsympathetic to the notion that it's not the biggest of deals ATM so unless Markus and Co. spend virtually no time on it, maybe it shouldn't be a thing... then again, if, again, you're already bringing in women owners, why not

- Some people will get butthurt that OOTP is ruining their safe space. We're seeing this expressed in this very thread. Homosexuality is a fact of life, not a political issue, but regardless, *any* time spent on it will probably make the game a few enemies.

- The fact is that there *is* an issue with sexual preference and sports in which gay men, for whatever reason, don't appear to be represented at the professional levels to anywhere near what the overall population levels are. I believe that baseball has *still* yet to have an active out player and a very, very small number of guys who were even out to their teammates (Glenn Burke is, off-hand, the only guy I can think of).

I'm not terribly sympathetic with this issue because, quite frankly, the game assumes not just a modern setting but something of an idealized modern setting. There is no switch to flip to only allow white ballplayers in a fictional league (or black ones); if you want to create a fictional Negro Leagues, it's been well established that you will do that on your own time. Even though racial BS does happen from time to time in the real major leagues, there are no storylines that deal with it. We see guys getting popped for steroid abuse but the game doesn't come with a 90s-era storyline involving guys getting sudden, strange increases to their power abilities that is later coupled with them being blackballed from the Hall of Fame. There isn't a Pete Rose type story in the base game. Hell, there isn't even a Curt Flood type storyline, even though Flood's unsuccessful lawsuit had a *huge* effect on the game. As far as the game is concerned, one year you have the reserve clause and then the next, boom, free agency.

We're *already* whitewashing all the bad things people don't want to think about too much from the game of baseball; why not also whitewash the game's history of homophobia, too?

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by TuckerDuckson

I know for a fact in OOTP17 there was the "so and so is out 13 months with a torn UCL after his wife hit him with a frying pan" and "so and so is out for 9 months with a concussion after an argument with his wife"

In OOTP18 I've seen the "wife complains about the team that the player is on stadium (usually happens when the player is angry at the team and demands a trade) and she says she wants to go somewhere else." And the "so and so has had a kid (name of the kid) both (player) and wife are super excited by this news, however (Player) has taken some time off with his wife to take care of the newborn" (basically a bereavement list announcement)

But see, changing any of these news story's (which you can actually do Tanz, go and change the news article in the notes second from "wife" to "husband" but I know your going to ignore this anyways) has little to no effect on the game as a whole. In total it's just a luxury thing that would be on the bottom of the list in fictional leagues.

You *can* but you have no way to control which events happen to which players. As in my previous post, I think the "in" here is that the game is already going to have to account for women owners at some point (as well as perhaps women GMs) in order to remain realistic; at that point, why not code in gay people too?

[Anyone]

I hadn't seen, or didn't remember, the stories referring to players' wives or girlfriends.

Since they do exist, ideally there should be some small random factor that, maybe 1 time in 20, changes the word "wife" to "husband" or "girlfriend" to "boyfriend."

I don't know the programming language the game is coded in and am not any sort of expert programmer, but I recall C had a replace_string function and it would look something like this in C: if(!random(20)) replace_string("wife","husband"); That would be pretty easy to do.

(Sorry if the code is a little off, even from the version of C I once used. I never programmed professionally, and haven't programmed at all in over 10 years).

So, I'll grant that to the OP.

[Padreman]

First of all I hope to God this isn't getting the game ever because it's just doesn't belong there. I would rather have the team spend time and Energy in getting base coaches, Bullpen coaches, strength and conditioning coaches and presidents of baseball operations into the game. A coaching system that's more in depth. More qualities and specialities in the coaches. So you can hire the right ones to take on additional roles in your team besides the standard coach titles. Assign one baserunning/stealing instructor, one as catching instructor one as fielding Instructor ECT. This allows you to be more emerged into the game cause it's part of baseball. Not a man that has sex with another man. No place for it

[Anyone]

Originally Posted by Padreman

This allows you to be more emerged into the game cause it's part of baseball. Not a man that has sex with another man. No place for it

That's discriminatory, the same as if the game never generated black or Hispanic fictional players, or something.

I was with you, as long as it didn't give any clue as to whom any player was having sex with, which was what I thought was the case. But since it mentions at times the girlfriends or wives the players are having sex with, it needs to acknowledge that a realistic percentage are having sex with other men. If you think it's okay to have sex with one gender and not another, then you deserve to be offended.

If it's like the old coding I once did, it's also trivially easy to do. I still would disagree with what I think the OP believed, that there should be stories specifically about reactions to gay players. While I haven't played anything old historical in the game, they likely just begin inserting black players at the (now customizable) appropriate time. Maybe they do a story to mention the color line has been broken, but they probably don't have "John Doe wants to leave the Dodgers because he doesn't want to play with black players." So there is no need for such story lines with gay players.

But you can't mention wives if you never mention husbands (in proportion to real life). That suggests one is okay and the other is not, which is way behind the times and frankly pretty disgusting.

[NCBeachBum]

Slick Thrift pretty much spoke my mind on this one better than I could. I will just add that I keep seeing all these mentions about coding time being "wasted" on this, and so want to reiterate something I said earlier: we're not talking about coding, we're talking about a storyline, and if you look at one of the penned threads a lot of this work is being done by volunteer members of the community... one of whom even kinda sorta almost halfway volunteered himself in this thread for the work. Unless there's some technical reason I can't understand that would keep such a player-written storyline from working, the entire mention of devel time is nothing but a strawman.

I also had the thought earlier that if we the GMs still had in-game wives, there would be an incredibly strong argument in favour of this... I, like a couple of others, had forgotten the stories that mention players' SOs. Now that it's mentioned, though, I'm almost certain I remember one in which a player cheats on his wife with a masseuse, in addition to the others mentioned here.

[TuckerDuckson]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

You *can* but you have no way to control which events happen to which players. As in my previous post, I think the "in" here is that the game is already going to have to account for women owners at some point (as well as perhaps women GMs) in order to remain realistic; at that point, why not code in gay people too?

Theoretically you could.

While you can't control who is or is not gay, you could just copy each note in the "storyline" folder that has the keyword of "wife" or spouse equivalent and change all or some (up to your prefrence) to "husband" or even "partner" so everyone is happy. See, the option is in the game, it just takes some work.

[Sweed]

It's threads like this that make OOTP the laughing stock of the sports gaming community.

I don't even attempt to defend OOTP anymore when I read comments on other boards about the silliness that goes on here, it's just not worth it.

[Bunktown Ballers]

I told yall this was gonna happen a couple weeks ago when somebody was wanting every nationality in the game.....just because. Again, same reply as I had back then leave us the options not to have those annoucements. If this is allowed I promise this is my last version to buy. I'm tired of ONE or TWO people shoving crap down my throat that I don't want. This is just getting to damn much. THINK OF SOME PRODUCTIVE IDEAS OR NO AT ALL For those interested I have a gay nephew & we go to games together. Stop It

[Klaus 74]

Originally Posted by TanzKommandant

There seems to be a lot of pushback on the possible inclusion of this feature and I'm unsure why. If the gaming experience can be enhanced by adding more diversity within the game then why not allow it? Others say it's not important enough to have and other features would be more valuable to include. Why would the feature need to be in lieu of a different feature? Why couldn't they both exist?

Unsure why? Well how about OOTP Developments forfeiting their license with MLB.com, MLBPA, and Minor League Baseball so this 'feature' may be included?

Now go away....

[Anyone]

Originally Posted by Klaus 74

Unsure why? Well how about OOTP Developments forfeiting their license with MLB.com, MLBPA, and Minor League Baseball so this 'feature' may be included?

Why would they lose their license with any of those groups by including realistic sexual orientation ratios?

In fact, if any such group took punitive action for that reason, I can imagine gay rights groups boycotting MLB over its bigotry.

All players being straight = all players being white. They are equally bad.

[Padreman]

Originally Posted by Anyone

Why would they lose their license with any of those groups by including realistic sexual orientation ratios?

In fact, if any such group took punitive action for that reason, I can imagine gay rights groups boycotting MLB over its bigotry.

All players being straight = all players being white. They are equally bad.

That's the point boycotting...... come one it's a baseball game I don't need to know if man sleeps with another man I just need to know if he can hit the ball or pitch that's it.

[Raidergoo]

Key components of OOTP started as mods. Catobase, Facegen...they were mods before they were in the game.

Where is your gay and lesbian acceptance for team executives mod?

[Padreman]

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

Key components of OOTP started as mods. Catobase, Facegen...they were mods before they were in the game.

Where is your gay and lesbian acceptance for team executives mod?

Good point if you want it in the game mod it. Then those who want it can install it. And don't force or pressure others to do it for you

[Lukas Berger]

Thread closed.

Guys, please stop feeding the troll.

When he opens another thread like this please just restrain yourselves and let it die a natural death.