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Old 10-23-2014, 04:07 PM   #61
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Yes each coach has their own strategic preferences and attributes.

Yes you can call a play, or ask your coaches to call it, in which case the relevant co-ord does it.
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Old 11-02-2014, 12:11 PM   #62
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Cool...

Here's an idea. If you're acting as HC (belichick speak), Could you have the Offensive Coordinator/Def Coordinator send in the play, then you approve it?

In the GUI, it would be a button that says "Ask ... Coordinator" The coordinator says "Trips Right, Slant #87", Then you approve it, or disapprove it. If you disapprove, you can ask the OC for another one.

Same with the DC.

Not sure how hard it would be to code into the AI, but it's just an idea.

I've played other football sims where it can be really confusing to pick a play. If you ask the AI to do it, then it seems you have no control over what the AI selects. That give more control, rather than weeding through all the schemes or play options...
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Old 11-02-2014, 01:42 PM   #63
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I'm not sure exactly how the GUI will work yet (as we've not designed it!), but ideally that is something I would like
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Old 11-17-2014, 10:51 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Francis Cole View Post
These are the staff you hire currently. Bear in mind it may have changed slightly by the time of release; I don't expect it to, but you never know.

Head Coach
Offensive Co-Ord
Def co-ord
ST co-ord
QBs Coach
RBs Coach
WRs ""
TEs ""
OLs ""
DLs ""
LBs ""
DBs ""
STs ""
Director of Pro Personnel (i.e. pro scout)
Director of College Scouting (i.e. college scout)
Head of Strength and Conditioning (i.e. physio/doctor)
I love this, thank you!!! As an avid FOF player, this is one area I feel FOF lacks. So happy to see you will have position coaches and actual scouts.

I am very excited about what I have been reading about BTS and can't wait to play it. IMO, a game such as you are developing is truly priceless to an avid football fan if you give them "a true GM experience".
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Old 12-15-2014, 07:55 PM   #65
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Interesting that this comes out, but my money is still on an OOTP developments crew producing a better game just because OOTP has always been immersive and had an emphasis on information and history being available. Although Front Office Football has a decent game for realistic and unpredictable results, it's presentation is lacking and really takes away from the immersion. I'll definitely want some reviews before I purchase Front Page but I'll at least read about it.


Agreed. To bad an OOTP / Solecismic arrangement couldn't have been made to use/mod the FOF engine with OOTP style updated graphics. Would have streamlined the process, added to the client base even more and created a product that would be years ahead in maturing the final product, like OOTP itself.
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Old 12-20-2014, 11:54 AM   #66
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My biggest issue with FOF is that Jim (the developer) has some very strong feelings about how the game should be played which I fundamentally don't agree with. He forces a salary cap and does not support player editing because he thinks it makes the game too easy.

I play sports sims to create interesting scenarios, I like to build up dynasties with certain compelling player combinations... something that's not possible in FOF. I also like to go in and force trades for AI controlled teams. I'll then go in and control one of the weakest teams and try to win the championship. All of this was possible with Front Page Sports Football; I never had more fun playing that game, especially with Sundby tools.

I'm really hoping this game gives me that level of control. I'm also hoping that there is some kind of visual indication of how the plays worked out. Not having that was a huge downer with FHM, that kills immersion more than anything. FPSF was so popular because it was the only game at the time that simulated with the actual game engine and did a great job creating highlights of important game moments.

If BTSF can incorporate these features I will play the game to death, but I'm assuming it will take a few versions before it can realistically compete with FOF on features.

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Old 12-23-2014, 08:33 PM   #67
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My biggest issue with FOF is that Jim (the developer) has some very strong feelings about how the game should be played which I fundamentally don't agree with. He forces a salary cap and does not support player editing because he thinks it makes the game too easy.

I play sports sims to create interesting scenarios, I like to build up dynasties with certain compelling player combinations... something that's not possible in FOF. I also like to go in and force trades for AI controlled teams. I'll then go in and control one of the weakest teams and try to win the championship. All of this was possible with Front Page Sports Football; I never had more fun playing that game, especially with Sundby tools.

I'm really hoping this game gives me that level of control. I'm also hoping that there is some kind of visual indication of how the plays worked out. Not having that was a huge downer with FHM, that kills immersion more than anything. FPSF was so popular because it was the only game at the time that simulated with the actual game engine and did a great job creating highlights of important game moments.

If BTSF can incorporate these features I will play the game to death, but I'm assuming it will take a few versions before it can realistically compete with FOF on features.
At the very least, games should always have that option when it is in the appropriate genre such as sports games with customization. There is the whole argument that as an art form, video games shine because of the ability to interact and choose in the world versus cinema where you interpret the creators meaning though it's final form.

Anyways, I bought FPS on steam a few days ago during the sale and can't advance due to a roster bug. Which is very frustrating because I really wanted to play a football based sim. This has never been an issue I have had with an OOTP game, and I took it for granted. This is really the one thing I want from BTS. Please learn from past developers mistakes of releasing a game before it's tested and finished. Diablo 3 also did this, and this made me mad enough to never want to buy another Blizzard product again.
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Old 12-28-2014, 10:51 PM   #68
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The two most important aspects of FB-Pro for me was the Play designer and the head-to-head online ability in coaching mode. Those two things set that game apart from anything before it or since it died with the 99 version fiasco. I own a plethora of Sports Sims and I almost never play single player...usually my experience with single player is to learn the chronological order of events so I can play in/run an online league. FB-Pro98 was hands down the greatest Football Simulation ever made!


These two things I am hoping make it into BTS, I realize having it in the first version is probably a pipe dream, but it's never too early to "dream" about the next great Football Simulation
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Old 01-17-2015, 02:59 PM   #69
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Believe it or not I still play FBPro 97, and I agree, Play Design would be a big plus
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Old 01-19-2015, 11:44 PM   #70
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That Basketball game shows Players on the Court live like NBALIVE does but has more features then any Video NBA game does that has Live play by play that OTTP,BTS,FHM needed.
Front Page Sports games are good.
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Old 02-04-2015, 07:03 AM   #71
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I don't believe Sierra sold them the license. From what I gather, the copyright on it simply expired, so they were able to simply copyright it themselves, or something to that effect.
I'd be very surprised if that was the case. With current copyright/trademark law, corporations can hold onto a copyright basically forever. My guess is that Activision/Blizzard (who now own Sierra) just decided they were never going to do another sports sim, so opted to get a few bucks by selling it.

Incidentally, back in my programming days, I worked on, I believe, the last three iterations of FPS:FB. There are quite a few stories I could tell about that last version, which was a corporate cluster**** of monumental proportions, but I don't know if I'm still liable for the non-disclosure all of us were forced to sign in order to get our severance package. Let's just say the spirit of Dilbert was alive and well at Sierra in those post-Ken & Roberta Williams days...
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Old 02-04-2015, 09:04 AM   #72
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I don't believe Sierra sold them the license. From what I gather, the copyright on it simply expired, so they were able to simply copyright it themselves, or something to that effect.
That's the story I heard too.
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Old 02-04-2015, 01:11 PM   #73
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Very sad and not very surprising. Here's to OOTP never letting that happen.
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Old 02-04-2015, 09:10 PM   #74
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Cool...

Here's an idea. If you're acting as HC (belichick speak), Could you have the Offensive Coordinator/Def Coordinator send in the play, then you approve it?

In the GUI, it would be a button that says "Ask ... Coordinator" The coordinator says "Trips Right, Slant #87", Then you approve it, or disapprove it. If you disapprove, you can ask the OC for another one.

Same with the DC.

Not sure how hard it would be to code into the AI, but it's just an idea.

I've played other football sims where it can be really confusing to pick a play. If you ask the AI to do it, then it seems you have no control over what the AI selects. That give more control, rather than weeding through all the schemes or play options...
I second the request...and ask that it also be implemented in real life out here in Seattle.
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Old 02-09-2015, 04:07 PM   #75
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I'd be very surprised if that was the case. With current copyright/trademark law, corporations can hold onto a copyright basically forever. My guess is that Activision/Blizzard (who now own Sierra) just decided they were never going to do another sports sim, so opted to get a few bucks by selling it.

Incidentally, back in my programming days, I worked on, I believe, the last three iterations of FPS:FB. There are quite a few stories I could tell about that last version, which was a corporate cluster**** of monumental proportions, but I don't know if I'm still liable for the non-disclosure all of us were forced to sign in order to get our severance package. Let's just say the spirit of Dilbert was alive and well at Sierra in those post-Ken & Roberta Williams days...
Man, I loved me some Sierra games in the 1990s too. In fact, I still have a VM on my newest laptop set up so that I can play FPS: Football Pro (the version with Dan Marino on the cover... I think that was '98? The last one that actually works anyway). I'm at a point to where I need to write a ratings adjuster that works better than the previously created one that's out there but frankly I'm just too lazy to do it. With the VPNFL files and properly rated players, it still produces decent results, even if the in-game play is a bit wonky.

My big issue with FOF is roughly the same as bigtrouble77's. My particular gripes are the fact that, 16 years after its original release, you can play with any league size you want as long as it's 32 teams in size, and the complete lack of attention paid to the coaching aspect of the game. I'm actually of roughly 20% of a mind to build my own game, as I have a really specific idea of what I would like a football game to be that I really can't expect any other dev to share, but sadly I am 80% too lazy for that.
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Old 02-09-2015, 04:16 PM   #76
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Unless you really want to make your own game, you could share your ideas as you never know I might agree with them and they will be in BTS at some point; or maybe they are already in!

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Old 02-09-2015, 05:24 PM   #77
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I imagine you guys have designed your own game engine already so I don't think my contributions there would be all that useful. Did you ever play Pro Football Fantasm? I was thinking of something basically along those lines, only where all of the possible matchups were decided in order to determine the outcome of a play rather than just one. I've written up a big outline of gameplay but it's probably too tangled for anyone outside of myself to make any sense of.
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Old 02-11-2015, 08:17 AM   #78
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Did you ever play Pro Football Fantasm?
Unfortunately not.

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outcome of a play rather than just one
Having not played it I obviously don't understand it as that sounds rather strange!
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Old 02-11-2015, 08:53 AM   #79
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Man, I loved me some Sierra games in the 1990s too. In fact, I still have a VM on my newest laptop set up so that I can play FPS: Football Pro (the version with Dan Marino on the cover... I think that was '98? The last one that actually works anyway). I'm at a point to where I need to write a ratings adjuster that works better than the previously created one that's out there but frankly I'm just too lazy to do it. With the VPNFL files and properly rated players, it still produces decent results, even if the in-game play is a bit wonky.

My big issue with FOF is roughly the same as bigtrouble77's. My particular gripes are the fact that, 16 years after its original release, you can play with any league size you want as long as it's 32 teams in size, and the complete lack of attention paid to the coaching aspect of the game. I'm actually of roughly 20% of a mind to build my own game, as I have a really specific idea of what I would like a football game to be that I really can't expect any other dev to share, but sadly I am 80% too lazy for that.
I have started programming my own football game...for the very same reasons. It is more for me to use only, but when I am finished I'll probably just release it for free for the public.
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Old 02-16-2015, 10:14 AM   #80
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Unfortunately not.



Having not played it I obviously don't understand it as that sounds rather strange!
Because I'm bored and hey, want to share, here's the basic game flow:

1. The offense and defense put their players on the board in formation and pick their plays.
2. Once this is all worked out (there are special rules for audibles, and so on), a bunch of dice are rolled:

- A d20 that you use to consult the play to see what the "key matchup" is for the play at hand. For instance, if you're running a 23 Slant (think: early ZBS), you might have your LG's run blocking skill match up against the opposing defensive tackle's corresponding skill, or it might be your running back's break tackles vs. a linebacker's tackling, and so on. Each play has 20 different matchups, although some are weighted more heavily than others (the RB's break tackles ability is probably going to be on the card 2 or 3 times while the WR blocking the CB might show up once if at all).

- A d10 is rolled to see who wins the matchup and by how much. If one guy has a higher level of ability than his opponent he's more likely to win the matchup but there's still some luck involved.

- Another d20 is rolled to see the result of the play. You need to consult one of approximately 5 billion play charts to get this.

Unsurprisingly, this game takes about as long to play as a real football game (~3 hours). The game mechanics really really lent themselves to a computer version and IMO there are still flaws (for instance, I think having to roll both against the matchup and the overall play outcome is an awful lot of randomness), but it was also rather groundbreaking for its time (the late 80s/early 90s). I liken it to a Sherco Baseball or maybe Pursue the Pennant, only for football.
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