Who is your Franchise Guy? - Page 9

95Marinerschangedmylife · 05-27-2011, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Possibly because outside of that awesome homerun, he just wasn't all that good. One of the most overrated players I've ever seen. However, I can see how those looking from the outside/in would think of him as The Franchise. Popular? Yes. A guy who warranted 650 PA per season? Absolutely not. Then again who knows if that HR gets hit if he's not a regular?

Stieb was a warrior and the organization's first real homegrown star. He was a bit of a prickly pear to put it mildly, but he put in his time and was hands down the MLB pitcher of the 1980's regardless of what people say about that Jack Morris fellow. He was a trooper for fifteen seasons in two stints with the Jays, whether the team was good or bad, and man there were some bad teams in there. He went 8-8 in his rookie season with a league average ERA on a team that had a 53-109 record for cryin' out loud.

Not bad for a dude who was drafted as an OF on June 6th, 1978 (He was called up to the big leagues barely a year later on June 29th, 1979 after 19 starts, 128 IP, a 12-2 record and a 2.95 ERA with only 1 HR allowed in the minors - that my friends is the very definition of a natural) in the amateur draft and converted to a pitcher at the urgings of Al LaMacchia (RIP, and know that Blue Jays fans and the baseball world in general [except the hitters that had to face him] are eternally grateful for your persistence with Stieb through his pigheaded stubbornness). After all, if LaMacchia hadn't been so persistent, the baseball world would've been deprived of one of the greatest sliders I've ever, ever seen. Video here, here, and here. Warning: Volume is loud in these clips. Adjust accordingly.

...Filthy, sick, wicked, hellacious, and nasty. I don't think any of the modern arcade style baseball video games could possibly do justice to it. It was utterly ridiculous. So ridiculous, that you wondered if your eyes were working properly when he ripped one off for a big strikeout. "Did I really just see that?" Oh yes lucky Jays fans, you really did. You really did. Dave Stieb fanboy? Guilty as charged, but with very good reason. With any kind of support (sometimes it was run support, sometimes the bullpen imploded, sometimes his fielders betrayed - I know happens to every pitcher, but it seemed to happen to him an extraordinary amount of the time), we'd be talking about a multiple Cy Young Award winner, and a guy who came up just short of the HoF. Unfortunately, the best he ever did in the Cy Young voting was 4th and he fell off the ballot with 1.4% of the vote in 2004.

I'll let the splits (which include his season with the White Sox and his age 40 comeback) do the rest of the talking:

Pitch Count: 101+: .200/.277/.275/.552

Times facing opponent batter as SP:

1st PA: .233/.311/.337/.648
2nd PA: .238/.309/.365/.673
3rd PA: .249/.317/.368/.685
4th+ PA: .238/.304/.359/.664

2 outs RISP: .229/.301/.313/.614

Run Support:

0-2 runs: 19 W 85 L
3-5 runs: 68 W 46 L
6+ runs: 88 W 6 L

Overall vs Batters: .239/.312/.355/.667

The Franchise.

/end of rant

Nice...You should be his lawyer. I had no idea how good he was.

actionjackson · 05-27-2011, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95Marinerschangedmylife

Nice...You should be his lawyer. I had no idea how good he was.

Well, it's kinda what this thread is all about right? Presenting arguments and stumping for your favourite candidates. He kinda gets lost in every thing that happened after the early years, but without him, who knows if those World Series would've happened. He didn't do much in 1992 and 1993, but he was the foundation that put the Jays on the map. Granted I took it a bit further than general with my arguing and stumping, but when have I ever been at a loss for words?

By the way, did ya get a look at that slider?

1998 Yankees · 05-28-2011, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95Marinerschangedmylife

Nice...You should be his lawyer. I had no idea how good he was.

Indeed. Quite a strong endorsement. We'll see how the Blue Jay vote went on Wednesday or Thursday.

95Marinerschangedmylife · 05-28-2011, 04:06 PM

Being from Seattle, I am use to the Mr. Snappy style of slider. Stieb has some really late break to it. It doesnt seem fair for some of those pitches especially first video :51 into it. Nasty. Kind of Guidry style.

actionjackson · 05-28-2011, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95Marinerschangedmylife

Being from Seattle, I am use to the Mr. Snappy style of slider. Stieb has some really late break to it. It doesnt seem fair for some of those pitches especially first video :51 into it. Nasty. Kind of Guidry style.

Louisiana Lightning had a great one. From what I remember (dim memories to be sure) it was mostly a north/south slider, whereas Stieb could break out the one with severe tilt horizontally and vertically on the same pitch, or he could break out the north/south one with just as severe a tilt. Every pitch of his had movement on it.

Steve Carlton's another one, and Randy Johnson, which you got to see up close and personal. I imagine for a LHB, it was game over on the slider given the 3/4 arm slot that Johnson threw from (ask John Kruk and Larry Walker

). Was his more of the traditional side to side slider with a little bit of vertical movement or am I misremembering?

Here's an article written by Rob Neyer in 2004 ranking the best sliders of all-time. Stieb's is #7, one behind Guidry. I probably should change my declaration from "...the best slider I ever, ever saw" to "...the best slider I ever, ever saw up close and personal" because I saw a lot of the guys on that top 10 list.

1998 Yankees · 06-04-2011, 12:02 PM

Well, this is going to make some people here unhappy.

Roberto Alomar is Mr. Blue Jay!

actionjackson · 06-04-2011, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Well, this is going to make some people here unhappy.

Roberto Alomar is Mr. Blue Jay!

Not surprising, but stupid nonetheless. Five years as a Blue Jay makes him Mr. Blue Jay? OK, whatever.

1998 Yankees · 06-04-2011, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Not surprising, but stupid nonetheless. Five years as a Blue Jay makes him Mr. Blue Jay? OK, whatever.

Yeah, some of these results are skewed, IMO. For example, Alomar just being inducted in the HoF makes him fresh on certain undiscerning minds, so they voted for him without much thinking. Still, we had our say here and I would have gone with Stieb, too.

95Marinerschangedmylife · 06-04-2011, 06:15 PM

At least it was a close vote. Who votes?

Chicagofan76 · 06-04-2011, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95Marinerschangedmylife

At least it was a close vote. Who votes?

Most likely New Yorkers or people from Washington neither group knows real baseball. (98 I mean Mets fans)

1998 Yankees · 06-04-2011, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95Marinerschangedmylife

At least it was a close vote. Who votes?

The gimmick is that the surveys appear in the sports section of USA Today and they direct you to that blog of theirs to vote and thereby build up web site traffic. Unfortunately, as in so many aspects of life, the general public is not always very well-informed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

Most likely New Yorkers or people from Washington neither group knows real baseball. (98 I mean Mets fans)

Uh, thanks, I think.

1998 Yankees · 06-04-2011, 09:00 PM

OFFICIAL RECAP:

So far, according to the readers of USA Today, we have these Franchise Guys:

Cubs - Ernie Banks
Orioles - Cal Ripken, Jr.
Expos/Nats - Andre Dawson
Mariners - Ken Griffey, Jr.
Astros - Nolan Ryan
Indians - Bob Feller
Padres - Tony Gwynn
Blue Jays - Roberto Alomar

Now, who is the Brew[er]meister?

Chicagofan76 · 06-04-2011, 09:06 PM

OK if Yount doesnt win this then something is wrong.....While I Like Molitor he should finish a close 2nd..Braun has a lot of yrs to go before he wins this and Fielder will be on the Cubs next yr, unless Pujols leaves STL then Fielder will be on Cardinals.

95Marinerschangedmylife · 06-04-2011, 10:34 PM

Its Yount hands down. I dont even think Molitor will be a close 2nd. He will be 2nd though.

bear · 06-06-2011, 01:14 AM

Yount, followed by Molitor. Where's Gorman Thomas or Sixto Lezcano?

1998 Yankees · 06-06-2011, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bear

Sixto Lezcano?

There is one of the great names of Baseball!

Jason Moyer · 06-06-2011, 05:28 PM

Jim Gantner.

Jpotapoff · 06-06-2011, 09:03 PM

Ya it will be Yount hands down although Molitor probably had more consistently good years over the span of his career than Yount, Yount is tied stronger to the Brewers than Molitor is (because Molitor left and had success with the Blue Jays). Plus those two league MVPs will push Yount over the top. Also when you think Brewers you are more likely to think Yount than Molitor.

1998 Yankees · 06-10-2011, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

OK if Yount doesnt win this then something is wrong.....

Yup.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95Marinerschangedmylife

Its Yount hands down. I dont even think Molitor will be a close 2nd. He will be 2nd though.

Yup.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bear

Yount, followed by Molitor.

Yup.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

Jim Gantner.

Nope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jpotapoff

Ya it will be Yount hands down.

Yup.

At the bottom of the screen printed article in the next post, you will see this small blurb:

Quote:

Greatest Brewer: Robin Yount is the greatest player in Milwaukee Brewers history, according to 69% of the 1,880 readers who voted. Paul Molitor (25%) was second, with Ryan Braun, Cecil Cooper and Prince Fielder tied with 2%.

Raise your stein to the Brew(er)meister, Robin Yount!

1998 Yankees · 06-10-2011, 01:04 AM

OFFICIAL RECAP:

So far, according to the readers of USA Today, we have these Franchise Guys:

Cubs - Ernie Banks
Orioles - Cal Ripken, Jr.
Expos/Nats - Andre Dawson
Mariners - Ken Griffey, Jr.
Astros - Nolan Ryan
Indians - Bob Feller
Padres - Tony Gwynn
Blue Jays - Roberto Alomar
Brewers - Robin Yount

Who is the most royal Royal?

06-04-2011, 12:02 PM	#166
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	Well, this is going to make some people here unhappy. Roberto Alomar is Mr. Blue Jay! Attached Images

06-04-2011, 09:00 PM	#172
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	It's Brewer time! OFFICIAL RECAP: So far, according to the readers of USA Today, we have these Franchise Guys: Cubs - Ernie Banks Orioles - Cal Ripken, Jr. Expos/Nats - Andre Dawson Mariners - Ken Griffey, Jr. Astros - Nolan Ryan Indians - Bob Feller Padres - Tony Gwynn Blue Jays - Roberto Alomar Now, who is the Brew[er]meister? Attached Images

06-06-2011, 01:14 AM	#175
bear Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 18,797	Yount, followed by Molitor. Where's Gorman Thomas or Sixto Lezcano? __________________ Bear's Unstable UTBA Season Four Gold Conference Central Division Champion First UTBA expansion franchise to win a conference divisional title

06-06-2011, 05:28 PM	#177
Jason Moyer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 5,087	Jim Gantner. __________________ "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses." -- Tom House "I was very fortunate to have a pitching coach by the name of Tom House...Tom, I really miss those days that we spent in the weight room and out on the field working together." -- Nolan Ryan's HoF Induction Speech

06-10-2011, 01:04 AM	#180
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	King Royal? OFFICIAL RECAP: So far, according to the readers of USA Today, we have these Franchise Guys: Cubs - Ernie Banks Orioles - Cal Ripken, Jr. Expos/Nats - Andre Dawson Mariners - Ken Griffey, Jr. Astros - Nolan Ryan Indians - Bob Feller Padres - Tony Gwynn Blue Jays - Roberto Alomar Brewers - Robin Yount Who is the most royal Royal? Attached Images

05-28-2011, 04:06 PM	#164
95Marinerschangedmylife Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 182	Being from Seattle, I am use to the Mr. Snappy style of slider. Stieb has some really late break to it. It doesnt seem fair for some of those pitches especially first video :51 into it. Nasty. Kind of Guidry style.

06-04-2011, 06:15 PM	#169
95Marinerschangedmylife Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 182	At least it was a close vote. Who votes?

06-04-2011, 09:06 PM	#173
Chicagofan76 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Diamond, IL Posts: 6,339 Infractions: 2/2 (3)	OK if Yount doesnt win this then something is wrong.....While I Like Molitor he should finish a close 2nd..Braun has a lot of yrs to go before he wins this and Fielder will be on the Cubs next yr, unless Pujols leaves STL then Fielder will be on Cardinals.

06-04-2011, 10:34 PM	#174
95Marinerschangedmylife Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 182	Its Yount hands down. I dont even think Molitor will be a close 2nd. He will be 2nd though.

06-06-2011, 09:03 PM	#178
Jpotapoff Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 182	Ya it will be Yount hands down although Molitor probably had more consistently good years over the span of his career than Yount, Yount is tied stronger to the Brewers than Molitor is (because Molitor left and had success with the Blue Jays). Plus those two league MVPs will push Yount over the top. Also when you think Brewers you are more likely to think Yount than Molitor.