Who is your Franchise Guy?

[95Marinerschangedmylife]

With all respect to Hoffman, I would say Gwynn also.

[TribeFanInNC]

No respect to Hoffman at all. Guy pitched 4 IP per week while Gwynn collected 3100 hits.

Gwynn is Mr. San Diego! (if it isn't Kurt Bevacqua anyway )

[bear]

Gwynn followed by Winfield for me

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by bear

Gwynn followed by Winfield for me

You da Bear, bear! As the article says, it wasn't even close:

Tony Gwynn is Señor Padre!

And he was followed by Dave Winfield whom I loved as a Yankee, not Trevor Hoffman.

OFFICIAL RECAP:
So far, according to the readers of USA Today, we have these Franchise Guys:

• Cubs - Ernie Banks
• Orioles - Cal Ripken, Jr.
• Expos/Nats - Andre Dawson
• Mariners - Ken Griffey, Jr.
• Astros - Nolan Ryan
• Indians - Bob Feller
• Padres - Tony Gwynn

Now, who is the all-time Blue Jay?

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

You da Bear, bear! As the article says, it wasn't even close:

Tony Gwynn is Señor Padre!

And he was followed by Dave Winfield whom I loved as a Yankee, not Trevor Hoffman.

OFFICIAL RECAP:
So far, according to the readers of USA Today, we have these Franchise Guys:

• Cubs - Ernie Banks
• Orioles - Cal Ripken, Jr.
• Expos/Nats - Andre Dawson
• Mariners - Ken Griffey, Jr.
• Astros - Nolan Ryan
• Indians - Bob Feller
• Padres - Tony Gwynn

Now, who is the all-time Blue Jay?

I'll take Dave Stieb for $200 please Mr. 1998 Yankee.

[bear]

Steib followed by Halliday

[Chicagofan76]

Steib here also followed by John Olerud.

[MorseMoose]

Well...until recently. I'd say Puckett.

Having never saw Harmon Killebrew play, I was always bias. I just don't know if I can continue to call Puckett the face of the Twins.

Harmon Killebrew is the Franchise Player for the Minnesota Twins. I'd be a shame to name anybody else.

[actionjackson]

Stieb followed by Halladay, followed by Carlos Delgado. Where the heck is Tony Fernandez? He should be there instead of (gulp!) Roberto Alomar. Yeah, he was here when it counted, but he was only here for five years.

My top five would be:

1) Stieb
2) Halladay
3) Delgado
4) Fernandez
5) Key

[Chicagofan76]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Stieb followed by Halladay, followed by Carlos Delgado. Where the heck is Tony Fernandez? He should be there instead of (gulp!) Roberto Alomar. Yeah, he was here when it counted, but he was only here for five years.

My top five would be:

1) Stieb
2) Halladay
3) Delgado
4) Fernandez
5) Key

what no Alfredo Griffin? Borders? Olerud? Carter?

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

what no Alfredo Griffin? Borders? Olerud? Carter?

Nope. Jesse Barfield would've been my next choice. What a cannon for an arm.

[Chicagofan76]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Nope. Jesse Barfield would've been my next choice. What a cannon for an arm.

I forgot about him...good game tonight

[Germaniac]

I would rank them Dave Stieb as No. 1, followed by Jesse Barfield, Roy Halladay, Roberto Alomar, Lloyd Moseby and ... Ernie Whitt ... and Damaso Garcia.

[bear]

After Steib the first two names to pop into my head were Carter and Fernandez. Barfield slipped my mind. like the forum suggestions better than the guys on the list.

[TribeFanInNC]

Hmmm...I'm surprised Stieb is running away with this. This was a tough one for me.

I feel Carlos Delgado and Roy Halladay were each a little more dominant than Stieb v. their peers. Stieb won an ERA title and a had a couple top 5 Cy Young years with an ERA+ often in the 130-140 range. Halladay has a wins title and five top 5 Cy Young years (and of course won once) with better peak ERA+ (140-150 range). Delgado led the league in OPS once, has a couple top 5 MVP years, and a slew of 150+ OPS+ years.

I know Delgado is probably taking a hit from playing in the steroid era. Maybe that is warranted. But I would rank them:

Delgado
Halladay
Stieb

Tough call though.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by Germaniac

I would rank them Dave Stieb as No. 1, followed by Jesse Barfield, Roy Halladay, Roberto Alomar, Lloyd Moseby and ... Ernie Whitt ... and Damaso Garcia.

Ok, now you guys are pushing me into a top 10:

1) Stieb
2) Halladay
3) Delgado
4) Fernandez
5) Key
6) Barfield
7) V. Wells
8) Hentgen
9) Clancy
10) Moseby

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

I forgot about him...good game tonight

Here you go. Now please go away, leave me alone, and never speak of this game again.

[jaxmagicman]

I am not sure why Joe Carter isn't on the list. He is Mr. Blue Jay to me. And the only person I think of when I try to think of them.

[95Marinerschangedmylife]

I have to be honest. I dont know the Bluejays that well. Almost every guys on those lists, I can remember better from other teams. The only two names that I think of when I think of the Jays are Touch them all Joe and Cito Gaston. I know its players only but I always think of Cito. I dont know why.

[TribeFanInNC]

Huh...I forgot Joe Carter played 7 seasons with Toronto. Selective memory I guess - it was all downhill after the 1987 Sports Illustrated cover from my perspective...

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

I am not sure why Joe Carter isn't on the list. He is Mr. Blue Jay to me. And the only person I think of when I try to think of them.

Possibly because outside of that awesome homerun, he just wasn't all that good. One of the most overrated players I've ever seen. However, I can see how those looking from the outside/in would think of him as The Franchise. Popular? Yes. A guy who warranted 650 PA per season? Absolutely not. Then again who knows if that HR gets hit if he's not a regular?

Stieb was a warrior and the organization's first real homegrown star. He was a bit of a prickly pear to put it mildly, but he put in his time and was hands down the MLB pitcher of the 1980's regardless of what people say about that Jack Morris fellow. He was a trooper for fifteen seasons in two stints with the Jays, whether the team was good or bad, and man there were some bad teams in there. He went 8-8 in his rookie season with a league average ERA on a team that had a 53-109 record for cryin' out loud.

Not bad for a dude who was drafted as an OF on June 6th, 1978 (He was called up to the big leagues barely a year later on June 29th, 1979 after 19 starts, 128 IP, a 12-2 record and a 2.95 ERA with only 1 HR allowed in the minors - that my friends is the very definition of a natural) in the amateur draft and converted to a pitcher at the urgings of Al LaMacchia (RIP, and know that Blue Jays fans and the baseball world in general [except the hitters that had to face him] are eternally grateful for your persistence with Stieb through his pigheaded stubbornness). After all, if LaMacchia hadn't been so persistent, the baseball world would've been deprived of one of the greatest sliders I've ever, ever seen. Video here, here, and here. Warning: Volume is loud in these clips. Adjust accordingly.

...Filthy, sick, wicked, hellacious, and nasty. I don't think any of the modern arcade style baseball video games could possibly do justice to it. It was utterly ridiculous. So ridiculous, that you wondered if your eyes were working properly when he ripped one off for a big strikeout. "Did I really just see that?" Oh yes lucky Jays fans, you really did. You really did. Dave Stieb fanboy? Guilty as charged, but with very good reason. With any kind of support (sometimes it was run support, sometimes the bullpen imploded, sometimes his fielders betrayed - I know happens to every pitcher, but it seemed to happen to him an extraordinary amount of the time), we'd be talking about a multiple Cy Young Award winner, and a guy who came up just short of the HoF. Unfortunately, the best he ever did in the Cy Young voting was 4th and he fell off the ballot with 1.4% of the vote in 2004.

I'll let the splits (which include his season with the White Sox and his age 40 comeback) do the rest of the talking:

Pitch Count: 101+: .200/.277/.275/.552

Times facing opponent batter as SP:

1st PA: .233/.311/.337/.648
2nd PA: .238/.309/.365/.673
3rd PA: .249/.317/.368/.685
4th+ PA: .238/.304/.359/.664

2 outs RISP: .229/.301/.313/.614

Run Support:

0-2 runs: 19 W 85 L
3-5 runs: 68 W 46 L
6+ runs: 88 W 6 L

Overall vs Batters: .239/.312/.355/.667

The Franchise.

/end of rant