Fans of OOTP - eductate me...

[You'll Thank Me Later]

A new version is sprung upon a surprised community which had no input into it and would have asked for some additional and different things, a larger company is now handling the marketing, "professional" beta testers will be used - wow, I'm getting High Heat deja vu.

[ihatenames]

I think before we panic we see what SI does. Ootp is getting larger, it can't be an intimate community anymore. I love FM and i enjoy EHM. I'm sure OOTP7 will be great. Give a marc a chance. I understand where he's coming from. I think doug had a point as to where the frustration of the forum steming from in his earlier posts. Which is what Marc was asking for.

As said before i'm a fan of SI's work and i am quite willing to give them a chance. They do things a bit different but so what. Give them a chance.

[dougaiton]

Originally Posted by Anachronism

I do find it funny that you suggest Marc was the one who was taking sly digs at people that he might not agree with, when you yourself do the very same thing in the last line of your post...

Just to make clear, the last line wasn't a dig at anyone. I am glad that OOTP is stuffed full of hardheads that will dispute things to the bitter end, because otherwise we'd never get anything achieved. I also think that I may have misread your complaint, and for that I apologise. What I meant about the forums still going strong was something like this...

I'm glad that if I post something, people will argue with me about it, because it shows the forum really is alive. You may think I'm wasting precious posts, and I probably am because we both agree in substance that this new method is new and slightly scary, but it's good that people are willing to argue about the future of the game, the forum.

I fear that Markus is slipping further away from the knowledge base that once provided him with not only ideas, but implementations, of the game's engine. To see that on the ideas panel at the moment are four gentlemen, who are super knowledgeable about coding and baseball, but I think it's fair to say they are without (and I'm presuming) a real math-head, the role Craig Scarborough was meant to play, and this troubles me, because the engine is still wrong, stats-wise. I intend to make a fuss over it, and I think Marc's parallels to the CM community, a community many of us have spent a lot of time in, are really worrying - will one day the jewel of forum contribution to OOTP be a 'what is the most needed new feature?' poll, like CM have?

Our download centers are stuffed full of files that people, Henry foremost amongst us, have spent months of their lives creating - all the time people are creating new better utilities, going into the CSVs and extracting data. The model that is being proposed in this very thread is entirely different - the community is reactive to game developments, not active in offering the knowledge that can make these changes occur.

I have no doubt that OOTP7 will be a great, great game, of course (with a slightly worse interface ), just that it won't be as great as it could be, or it won't do what we want it to. Right now, every patch or expansion is a victory achieved by Markus and the community jointly. Let's go kicking and screaming, and try to convince SI that our model - that of a far stronger sense of shared knowledge than has been with CI - is far more fitting for a game that remains at the cutting edge of the baseball sim world.

[Draft Dodger]

interesting thread, really.
a lot of intelligent thoughts illustrating both sides of the coin.

[dougaiton]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

interesting thread, really.
a lot of intelligent thoughts illustrating both sides of the coin.

'Simpsons Wrestling has its flaws, but it's a great game for all the family!'

[Jayzone]

Looks like that the party is already over but the discussion was really interesting nevertheless.

I will have to say taht I agree more on kg and doug's point. I, too, would much perfer the closer relationship between Markus and the community.

Myself was a relatively new comer to this forum and only caught the very end of the more frequent visits by Markus so I can not truly speak for what was happening before then. However, I could share my personal 'experience' with the community. When I first joined the community, I was quite pumped about the fact that the community, in general, seems to have the ability to influence the direction of the games should be taking. I was so pumped that I decide to follow countless others that were willing to sacrifice all their free time to create studies and making mods just in hope that OOTP will be better because of them (ideas makes into game, not-so-correct game mechanics got tweaked, etc.). So I used a lot of my free time to create a few studies, and eventually mods - all in hope that they may be of some usefulness in improving OOTP. I would also stop by the "OOTP 7:SI Suggestions and Feature Wish List" forum quite often for new and exciting ideas that might make OOTP better and I would also provide my humble ideas as to how may make OOTP better. But then, I eventually stop going to the suggestion forum often due to the fact the the level of interest from OOTPD seems be to zip. As for it is right now, the suggestion forum look to be quite a barren place compared to what it was a year ago. New ideas doesn't get posted often and even if they do, few people ever paricipate in discussion. All posts with good ideas always end up with "I hope that it would someday make in to the game" and that's it. No comment what so ever from the people with power to make the ideas as differences in OOTP. Also, I will have to admit that my attitude toward the suggestion forum is more like 'why bother? no one is listening anyway.' now.

As for the community, I've met and read (mostly just read and enjoy the conversation but not join them directly) the posts from lots and lots of great people (too numerous to name names) with superb knowledge on baseball itself. Within the past one year time frame, the baseball knowledge that I learned and gained is probably more than ten fold than what I knew about baseball before. I do think that this community does have something to offer to OOTPD and SI in improving and providing critics to the OOTP. By not tapping this valuable resources or even provides slightest feedback like 'the idea is interesting and all....', it's not hard to imgaine that some people would feel their voices unheard and just become silent in this community - or even worse, just leave this community outright with disappointment. In the process, OOTP may have lost its most valuable resources and the ideas quenched. To add more insults to the wound, this very valuable resources could be easily tapped for free! In the process of tapping this greatly valuable resources, a great PR service could also be achieved at the same time! So, the question is really 'why not enlist the help of the community if it's possible?'.

Well, of course, being one always not very good with words, that's just the best that I can present my opinion on this topic.

[You'll Thank Me Later]

Originally Posted by dougaiton

I'm glad that if I post something, people will argue with me about it, because it shows the forum really is alive.

Oh, yeah? You think so? Well, you're wrong about that.

[Kezzek]

I'm with ya, Dougie.

Pay attention to what he's saying, people.