Will there be ghost players in the minors?

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by silvam14

Historical simmers can all take solace that they can still play OOTP with ghost players, just not OOTP2006

What I Said ^^^

[andymac]

Originally Posted by silvam14

What I Said ^^^

But then what is the point of one of Markus' major improvements? Imported players will now have defensive ratings based on their statistics instead of randomly generated like in OOTP6.

Nobody is saying that not having ghost players is a game killer for historical simmers, it is just something that historical simmers would rather have than not have.

[Zitofan75]

Originally Posted by andymac

Nobody is saying that not having ghost players is a game killer for historical simmers, it is just something that historical simmers would rather have than not have.

No one has come out and said it true but it's sure produced lots of long faces and of course the usual rumblings of how the game will lose sales if things don't "improve." Par for the course on an internet board I suppose.

I still don't see how folks can say they didn't see this coming. Maybe people didn't want to think things through. But when Markus said there'd be fully playable minor league teams it dawned on me pretty fast that the ghosts were going away. Say what you want but once that fact got thrown out there what other conclusion were you going to draw? It was indicative quite early on that the way the game covered the topic was going to be different then the past.

Look, past versions of OOTP were not intended to be historical simulators either. There were methods to get a league going but they were imperfect. Still, someone who cared enough to do so found ways to make things happen. You used workarounds to some degree. For instance what do you think "ghost" players were? Well now the whole program has changed. And it's still not primarily designed to be a historic simulator. There may however be workarounds. I know for some that a workaround is a dirty word, as if it's an insult to have to use them but you've always used them as you've always been trying to get a game program to simulate something that it wasn't built around.

[Zitofan75]

Originally Posted by Jestor

Sorry man, but you're not getting it. Historical replay is not the same as historical simming. Two entirely different things. DMB doesn't fill the historical simming void at all. There's no career progression.

No, I get it. I quite accurately said DMB was a historical replay game, not a simming game. I was not suggesting that people unhappy here go buy DMB because they'll supposedly get a historical sim; I was instead making the point that DMB makes a product that fits a particular niche of the market and that OOTP is designed to fit into yet another niche. OOTP has never been designed from the ground up to be a historical simulation; it's real strength has always been balanced in favor of the creation of fictional leagues. There's a market for historical replay and DMB fills it expertly. There's a market for general baseball season simulators that OOTP fills and does sort of attempt to straddle fiction and historical but it has always been my opinion that it deals with the fictional better and it does so because it was designed to.

[Qrusher14242]

But why does he want to screw historical simmers like this? Im sure he had to have known this would ruin historical leagues. We werent expecting to make it impossible to run a historical league with minors without fcitional players. Guess its Puresim this year for historical simmers. Too bad i didnt know about this before i preordered back in November

[rogmax11]

You know, what I'd really like is if OOTP would just give me accurate stats that reflect historical eras, without my having to dick around with a bazillion modifiers. Hell, I can type in historical names if I want, and I dont have a huge problem with Bob Fiction becoming the new Hank Aaron. In fact, what the historical ambience gives you is a more profound connection to your fantasy plus the added bonus of replayability since no two trips down dynasty lane are going to pass the same scenery.
I dont want a static historical replay from the game; I do want the ability to mimic the environment of history along with the option of adding "what-if" variables/players/rules/etc as whim suggests.

[kq76]

But if you're a historical simmer only wanting players that made the bigs, why is not having the minors, but having a reserve list instead, a problem? Is it just that you want to see them having minor league stats? It just doesn't seem like it should be a big deal if you don't want minor league players anyway.

[andymac]

Originally Posted by Qrusher14242

But why does he want to screw historical simmers like this? Im sure he had to have known this would ruin historical leagues. We werent expecting to make it impossible to run a historical league with minors without fcitional players. Guess its Puresim this year for historical simmers. Too bad i didnt know about this before i preordered back in November

This does not screw historical simmers. That thinking is more than a bit of an overreaction...you just lose the minor leagues. Your players are still going to develop, everything that happens at the major league level will be unchanged whether there is a minor league team or not. Those players are still there. The only thing you lose are minor league statistics...that's it. If that is enough for you to stop playing the game, I'm not sure why you were playing in the first place.

[Zitofan75]

Originally Posted by andymac

This does not screw historical simmers. That thinking is more than a bit of an overreaction...you just lose the minor leagues. Your players are still going to develop, everything that happens at the major league level will be unchanged whether there is a minor league team or not. Those players are still there. The only thing you lose are minor league statistics...that's it. If that is enough for you to stop playing the game, I'm not sure why you were playing in the first place.

Couldn't have said it better. It doesn't screw any one. It changes the way the game operates and I imagine it's going to be a new thing for both fictional and historical.

[English_Ray]

I just registered today, because for the first time ever (after a year plus of reading these boards!) I think I've got something constructive to say!

In Football Manager, we have what are known as (the infamous) Grey Players. They are players, with real names, and real, visible ability ratings, who fill in when teams have fixtures but not enough real players to fill out the team - usually youth or reserve team games.

They can't be signed by other teams, and in FM can only be used in the first team if there aren't enough real players - so I was thinking maybe the same thing could happen in OOTP? If, in a historical game there are minor leagues running, but not enough real historical players then maybe the game could have some Grey players fill in. That way you have full teams, and therefore real, meaningful stats, and the fake players won't be able to be called up to the Major league teams.

Just my

[andymac]

Originally Posted by English_Ray

I just registered today, because for the first time ever (after a year plus of reading these boards!) I think I've got something constructive to say!

In Football Manager, we have what are known as (the infamous) Grey Players. They are players, with real names, and real, visible ability ratings, who fill in when teams have fixtures but not enough real players to fill out the team - usually youth or reserve team games.

They can't be signed by other teams, and in FM can only be used in the first team if there aren't enough real players - so I was thinking maybe the same thing could happen in OOTP? If, in a historical game there are minor leagues running, but not enough real historical players then maybe the game could have some Grey players fill in. That way you have full teams, and therefore real, meaningful stats, and the fake players won't be able to be called up to the Major league teams.

Just my

This would be perfect, IMO.

[deadringer]

I just realized how hard this is going to be for guys making rosters for the current season. You can't just have the top 10 prospects but all the minors guys happening.

[Zitofan75]

Originally Posted by English_Ray

I just registered today, because for the first time ever (after a year plus of reading these boards!) I think I've got something constructive to say!

In Football Manager, we have what are known as (the infamous) Grey Players. They are players, with real names, and real, visible ability ratings, who fill in when teams have fixtures but not enough real players to fill out the team - usually youth or reserve team games.

They can't be signed by other teams, and in FM can only be used in the first team if there aren't enough real players - so I was thinking maybe the same thing could happen in OOTP? If, in a historical game there are minor leagues running, but not enough real historical players then maybe the game could have some Grey players fill in. That way you have full teams, and therefore real, meaningful stats, and the fake players won't be able to be called up to the Major league teams.

Just my

Are they optional? If so then this is perfect. Something for the historical simmer to flag the scrubs with and then let me switch it off for fictional leagues.

[English_Ray]

Originally Posted by Zitofan75

Are they optional? If so then this is perfect. Something for the historical simmer to flag the scrubs with and then let me switch it off for fictional leagues.

They're not optional as such, but they only appear if there aren't enough real players present - so I guess they wouldn't show up in a fictional league.

[BigCity]

My understanding is that historical replays use a Reserve List to hold players not on the active roster. Whether Markus will, in the end, add minor leagues to historical replays is something that was suggested here on the boards. Whether "grey players" could be used would depend on whether there were minor leagues to use them in.

[Zitofan75]

Originally Posted by BigCity

My understanding is that historical replays use a Reserve List to hold players not on the active roster. Whether Markus will, in the end, add minor leagues to historical replays is something that was suggested here on the boards. Whether "grey players" could be used would depend on whether there were minor leagues to use them in.

So, it sounds like there is a PLAN to accomodate both historical and fictional gamers here. That sounds good.

[AnthonyGiacalone]

So, it sounds like there is a PLAN to accomodate both historical and fictional gamers here. That sounds good.

Absolutely, this would be a perfect solution.

[BigCity]

Originally Posted by Zitofan75

So, it sounds like there is a PLAN to accomodate both historical and fictional gamers here. That sounds good.

Caution: I'simply stated that the idea of minor leagues in historical leagues was stated here, by the members, not by Markus. Whether Markus chooses to consider doing something like that is up to him.

[Zitofan75]

Originally Posted by BigCity

Caution: I'simply stated that the idea of minor leagues in historical leagues was stated here, by the members, not by Markus. Whether Markus chooses to consider doing something like that is up to him.

Ok, but do you know if the concept of a reserve list for someone doing a historic league official, more or less? I've seen a couple of people mention this on here.

[Malleus Dei]

Let's hope the Reserve List stays in.