Ties - Page 6

MathBandit · 11-21-2022, 09:52 PM

I also think you might get a better response if you actually engaged with any comments instead of replying to everyone with "This is how it has to be, nothing else makes sense".

monkeyman576 · 11-21-2022, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

The value of a tie is half a win. Nothing else.

You don't want to incentivise teams to tie.

BusterKing · 11-21-2022, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

Ask the chess players.

That doesn't make it right.

Brad K · 11-21-2022, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeyman576

You don't want to incentivise teams to tie.

How would making a tie worth half a win incentivize teams to play for a tie? And if they did why would it matter?

I don't see anywhere near the affect as is present in the payoff situation where it encourages teams to just be good enough to make the playoffs rather than being good enough to win the division.

But maybe I'm missing something on the tie situation.

Brad K · 11-21-2022, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BusterKing

That doesn't make it right.

Its right for highly skilled chess players.

BusterKing · 11-22-2022, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

Its right for highly skilled chess players.

Chess isn't a sport.

Cryomaniac · 11-22-2022, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MathBandit

I also think you might get a better response if you actually engaged with any comments instead of replying to everyone with "This is how it has to be, nothing else makes sense".

Hear hear.

tehsuigi · 11-22-2022, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

Those who voted for a tie after 12, please explain. Is this a matter of not liking ties but after a while just accepting what you don't like?

Those folks, like me, follow Asian leagues - *** and KBO both call games ties after 12, and I'm pretty sure the CPBL does too. All three have different inning limits in the postseason, but they're there. Heck, the Japan Series this year had Game 2 end in a tie!

monkeyman576 · 11-22-2022, 10:38 AM

Look at it this way. Say the game is tied at 3-3 going into the ninth inning. If you have a 2 point for a win 1 point for a tie system, the teams might be okay with just taking the tie and not trying for the win, thinking a point is better than no points. But if you make it 3 points for a win and 1 point for a tie, then then teams are willing to risk going for the win to get the extra point.

Dutch Alexander · 11-22-2022, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeyman576

Look at it this way. Say the game is tied at 3-3 going into the ninth inning. If you have a 2 point for a win 1 point for a tie system, the teams might be okay with just taking the tie and not trying for the win, thinking a point is better than no points. But if you make it 3 points for a win and 1 point for a tie, then then teams are willing to risk going for the win to get the extra point.

But what risk is there going for the win in baseball? When your batting you can't lose possesion of the ball and conceed a goal. There is zero risk involved going for the win. In other sports such as soccer there is risk involved so then it makes sense to award 3 points for the win to entice teams to take chances. In baseball you don't have to entice teams to go for the win so it makes less sense to award 3 points for a win.

MathBandit · 11-22-2022, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch Alexander

But what risk is there going for the win in baseball? When your batting you can't lose possesion of the ball and conceed a goal. There is zero risk involved going for the win. In other sports such as soccer there is risk involved so then it makes sense to award 3 points for the win to entice teams to take chances. In baseball you don't have to entice teams to go for the win so it makes less sense to award 3 points for a win.

Stuff like sac bunts when you're down 1 in the bottom of the 9th come to mind as a way of playing for a draw.

Brad K · 11-22-2022, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MathBandit

Stuff like sac bunts when you're down 1 in the bottom of the 9th come to mind as a way of playing for a draw.

I don't see any motivation to do that for most of the season. Last game of the season when a tie gets a team into the playoffs, yea, I'll go for that.

Brad K · 11-22-2022, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BusterKing

Chess isn't a sport.

LOL. You're right!

What about competitive fishing?

low · 11-22-2022, 10:09 PM

Ties in professional sports are stupid and I will die on this hill.

Ty Cobb · 11-22-2022, 10:33 PM

Ties are about as much fun as kissing your sister.

FYI—I'm an only child!

Syd Thrift · 11-23-2022, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MathBandit

Stuff like sac bunts when you're down 1 in the bottom of the 9th come to mind as a way of playing for a draw.

Yeah, it’s an ancient saying in baseball that you play to tie at home and win on the road. It’s conventional wisdom but like a lot of conventional wisdom it does have its roots in some fact: I think with baseball, in a vacuum expending your bullpen and your bench tires you out more on the road than at home. It probably meant more in the days of rail travel but if a game cuts out at 1am you’re still going to a hotel instead of your own home. Plus of course managers play to not get fired, and going against CW is a good way to get fired if you do it and lose.

In those situations, you might still play multi-run ball if you’re down by a run in the top of the 9th but on the bottom of the 9th in the same situation you’ll pretty much always do whatever you can to get the one run to tie it up.

MathBandit · 11-23-2022, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

I don't see any motivation to do that for most of the season. Last game of the season when a tie gets a team into the playoffs, yea, I'll go for that.

The game on May 3rd matters just as much as that last game of the season.

Sweed · 11-23-2022, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MathBandit

The game on May 3rd matters just as much as that last game of the season.

This is something that most fail to understand.

Brad K · 11-23-2022, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MathBandit

The game on May 3rd matters just as much as that last game of the season.

And the managers agree with you! On May 3 they'll play slightly injured stars risking greater injury that might put them out of action for weeks. They'll exhaust the bullpen in a blow out, never bringing in a position player to pitch, on the slim chance they can come back from a mighty deficit. All because, as everyone knows, on May 3 there's no tomorrow.

Brad K · 11-23-2022, 02:53 PM

Some here are in favor of a point system where wins are worth more than twice as much as a tie. There's a proposal for 3 points for a win, 1 point for a tie, and 0 points for a loss. The result is 3 total points are awarded in a win and loss, all going to the winning team, and only 2 in a tie, 1 point to each team. Perhaps the fans should ask for a third of their money back.

For those who insist a win be worth more than twice a tie, there's an easy solution. Award 1 point for a win, 0 point for a tie, and negative 1 point for a loss. Problem solved. Actually even better. Instead of a win being worth 3 times a tie its worth infinitely more. Cool eh?

View Poll Results: How do you feel about ties?
Never!	59	51.30%
After 9 innings	9	7.83%
After 10 innings	3	2.61%
After 11 innings	6	5.22%
After 12 innings	31	26.96%
After 13 innings	0	0%
After 14 innings	0	0%
After 15 innings	2	1.74%
After 16 innings	0	0%
After 17 innings	0	0%
After 18 innings	1	0.87%
After Midnight	4	3.48%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

11-22-2022, 10:09 PM	#114
low Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 6,036	Ties in professional sports are stupid and I will die on this hill. __________________ My fictional team logos and uniforms

11-22-2022, 10:33 PM	#115
Ty Cobb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 4,578	Ties are about as much fun as kissing your sister. FYI—I'm an only child! __________________ "You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me." Thanos

11-21-2022, 09:52 PM	#101
MathBandit All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 1,445	I also think you might get a better response if you actually engaged with any comments instead of replying to everyone with "This is how it has to be, nothing else makes sense".

11-22-2022, 10:38 AM	#109
monkeyman576 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 3,402	Look at it this way. Say the game is tied at 3-3 going into the ninth inning. If you have a 2 point for a win 1 point for a tie system, the teams might be okay with just taking the tie and not trying for the win, thinking a point is better than no points. But if you make it 3 points for a win and 1 point for a tie, then then teams are willing to risk going for the win to get the extra point.

11-23-2022, 02:53 PM	#120
Brad K Banned Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,694 Infractions: 0/2 (4)	Some here are in favor of a point system where wins are worth more than twice as much as a tie. There's a proposal for 3 points for a win, 1 point for a tie, and 0 points for a loss. The result is 3 total points are awarded in a win and loss, all going to the winning team, and only 2 in a tie, 1 point to each team. Perhaps the fans should ask for a third of their money back. For those who insist a win be worth more than twice a tie, there's an easy solution. Award 1 point for a win, 0 point for a tie, and negative 1 point for a loss. Problem solved. Actually even better. Instead of a win being worth 3 times a tie its worth infinitely more. Cool eh?