Cleveland Indians / Guardians

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

Unless I am missing something, this is an entire post that is actually about OOTP and the realities of how to navigate historical game-play given the licensing issues around this nickname change for the Cleveland franchise of MLB.

Are you sure this kind of practical, factual, OOTP-focused comment is appropriate here, thehef?

(Taking the tongue out of the cheek, well done. More of this please, people.)

That post was exactly what should be talked about here. Let’s work the problem, not try to solve the worlds problems


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[benderguy1]

Originally Posted by Antonin

For crying out loud. No, the movie Major League is not banned. It's very sad that comments from people with your point of view descend so quickly into the absurd.

I don't really understand why you guys are so emotionally attached to these names. If you really want to "honor" the people who were here when the Europeans arrived in North and South America, why not learn about their culture(s)? Learn one of their languages. Contribute to a charity that addresses problems on the reservations like alcoholism and opioid addiction.

When I see hundreds of people doing that silly "tomahawk chop" gesture, it seems like they just do it to poke their thumb in the eye of racial minorities and those evil libs. You are nervous because the world you thought you dominated is changing. You don't control the entire planet any more. People of color are sick and tired of "going along to get along." When I was a kid, the white players on my little league baseball team used to rub my head for luck. I'm black. I put up with it then, because "going along to get along" was a primary component of survival strategy for African-Americans. You just did what you had to do to get by. But I doubt that sort of thing would be tolerated now. Enough is enough.

You guys can't order and rearrange peoples and cultures anymore, and that makes you feel insecure.

In a way, it's sad. And it makes me very pessimistic that American society will become more harmonious during my lifetime. You guys just don't listen. You don't want to listen.

You guys are angry because you think people who don't look like you want to censor you. That's why you complain so bitterly about "woke" this and "woke" that.

But you censor yourself every day. If you have a female boss, you certainly don't use the "b" word when she's around. You don't use certain language around your female co-workers. If you did, the HR department would call you in within minutes, and you would be fired.

You don't tell dirty jokes around your young daughters, your elderly relatives or your priest/rabbi/minister.

And you definitely don't use the "N-word" anywhere a black person can hear you. Not if you care about your personal safety.

Total freedom to do and say whatever you want to anyone and everyone just can't exist if you intend to live in society. This is (or should be) common sense. To exist as human beings we have to respect each other. Self-restraint is a good thing. It separates human civilization from the way animals live.

Enough of the silly ethnic stereotypes. Treat people who are different the way you yourself would want to be treated.

Spot on, Antonin.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

We don't, at least I don't, but the thing is that it will be a pain in the ass for us who play historical. I mean why, by exemple, we will need to manually change the name of the Cleveland Forrest Citys or the Cleveland Spiders because a team in 2022 is named the Guardians? It's like the Cubs preventing the use of Chicago White Stockings or Chicago Orphans to be used in the game....

Larry Dolan owns the Cleveland Guardians. That doesn't mean, however, that he owns Cleveland. He can only reach as far back as his franchise goes, which is 1901. Before that, Cleveland teams should be unaffected by his decision. So we can expect that Cleveland clubs in the NA, NL, and AA will be fine.

[Ktulu]

Great thread for adding to the ignore list. (Always amusing to see ignored users asking for help in the future, sorry bud)

Also one great post that makes me miss the Thanks button.

[Mr. Marlin]

Like Birdwatcher said the only thing worth discussing is how to work around the name change in the historical replay. I don't see any way around having to change it manually every game year. Which is really annoying. I'm hoping this won't apply to minor league team names because that will just be a hot mess to correct.

Hey I get the fact that the name and logo isn't nice and when my game hit's 2022 (if it ever does) they are the Guardians. But I freely admit I am a little anal when it comes to accurate historical logos, names, park dimensions, etc.

[Bunktown Ballers]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Again, I think it's very, very easy for this not to be political at all. Major League Baseball and the Cleveland Guardians baseball team have decreed that nobody using their license can use the Indians. Period. End of story. OOTP allows you to modify the game so that it does whatever you want it to do but that's just a side effect, really. This is beyond Markus' ability to control, even if he wanted to, unless for some reason he wanted to break his licensing agreement.

It always amazes me how anti-capitalist some people seem to be on this forum (not you, Pelican)...

Good Grief...I can't believe the issue with this is really happening. This is pretty much head-scratching material. If it meant OOTP losing their MLB license why would anyone want risk that?



BB

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by Bunktown Ballers

Good Grief...I can't believe the issue with this is really happening. This is pretty much head-scratching material. If it meant OOTP losing their MLB license why would anyone want risk that?



BB

Wait a second, who here said we would want to risk OOTP losing their MLB license?


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[SalukiFin]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I always use Rockers when I have a team in Grand Rapids Michigan. Nothing to with music, but Grand Rapids is or used to be a big furniture making city.

I'm just here for the Grand Rapids Rockers! Really glad I suffered this thread for that piece of gold! Fell in love and had my heart broken all within 30 seconds finding out they mostly only make office furniture these day haha.

[Kobeck]

Originally Posted by GoBucsGo

The most awful, cringeworthy comment I’ve ever seen. Yikes

zzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[Kobeck]

Originally Posted by nutt

Did you not read ANYTHING Markus said? Apparently not. If not, let me break it down in ELI5 terms:



This means the Cleveland Guardians, owned by the Dolan Family, in accordance with MLB.



Which also means for Diamond Dynasty in MLB 22: The Show, the historical Topps cards have to be digitally altered, as well as the Indians logo replaced with the "C" logo.

This also means their name change is that the Dolan Family owns the rights to Cleveland Indians® and is NOT to be used for profit or marketing by Major League Baseball.



Which means any game using the likeness of MLB in association with the MLBPA CANNOT use the Cleveland Indians moniker. Would you risk your tone deaf stubbornness to lose a licensing agreement, which in theory, if this was your company, could lead to the demise of a product, if not the entire company? I think not.



See above in retrospect to the registered trademark. Don't like it? Just buy OOTP22 and stick with it.

[Kobeck]

Originally Posted by tejdog1

Racism bad.
But this... this good, apparently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emQ6_PrRzIk

Go Braves!

[Kobeck]

Originally Posted by Zitofan75

It is kind of an odd thing for us to do since our history of interactions with the Native Americans was typically one of violence (often perpetrated by the US as it was busily conquering the continent) and then following that up by routinely breaking every treaty we made with them whenever we discovered that the land we forced them onto was discovered to have value. Perhaps we're not really the best people to be honoring them considering the way our ancestors treated the Native American tribes.

half truths and lies

[Kobeck]

Originally Posted by ChrisJNelson

As a Braves fan, I hope so.

so NOT a Braves fan then ....

[Kobeck]

Originally Posted by Fabtron7

The indigenous people of America got the name Indians because dumbass Christopher Columbus thought he was in India when he “discovered” America… Seems like a great name to honor them.

Columbus sailed across the Atlantic in a wooden boat using wind power... what exactly have you done?

[Kobeck]

Originally Posted by andyhdz

So many riled up people who have zero connection to the affected population this is about and no your great great grandfather didn't really marry a Cherokee princess.

you dont know that

[Kobeck]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I haven’t seen any evidence that MLB and the Guardians are enforcing their licensing on any team name other than the Cleveland Indians. You’re certainly free to call a team the Forest Citys, who by the way you’d have to create from scratch anyway because the game doesn’t at last count automatically “do” 19th century leagues with real rosters. Also of course there’s no lineage between the Forest Citys and Spiders and the AL team.

And what I’m talking about is, this is a licensing issue, an issue the Guardians organization themselves is enforcing on all people and companies who want to use their likenesses. There’s no “woke”ness going on, whatever that’s supposed to mean this week, just a corporate entity saying “you can’t use this name and logo anymore”. Which, OOTP doesn’t even restrict you from adding your own back in. Here’s a little secret: in the league I’m running, I have the name and the uniforms and for now anyway even the racist ass logo (I might think about getting rid of that in the near future).

This is all, frankly, a whole lot of performative whining over an issue that will have no bearing on how anyone plays the game, with I guess the possible exception that people playing PT might not be able to upload Chief Wahoo as their mascot.

its 100% MLB/cleveland MLB franchise capitulating to PC culture and its disingenuous to deny that

[Kobeck]

Originally Posted by Antonin

For crying out loud. No, the movie Major League is not banned. It's very sad that comments from people with your point of view descend so quickly into the absurd.

I don't really understand why you guys are so emotionally attached to these names. If you really want to "honor" the people who were here when the Europeans arrived in North and South America, why not learn about their culture(s)? Learn one of their languages. Contribute to a charity that addresses problems on the reservations like alcoholism and opioid addiction.

When I see hundreds of people doing that silly "tomahawk chop" gesture, it seems like they just do it to poke their thumb in the eye of racial minorities and those evil libs. You are nervous because the world you thought you dominated is changing. You don't control the entire planet any more. People of color are sick and tired of "going along to get along." When I was a kid, the white players on my little league baseball team used to rub my head for luck. I'm black. I put up with it then, because "going along to get along" was a primary component of survival strategy for African-Americans. You just did what you had to do to get by. But I doubt that sort of thing would be tolerated now. Enough is enough.

You guys can't order and rearrange peoples and cultures anymore, and that makes you feel insecure.

In a way, it's sad. And it makes me very pessimistic that American society will become more harmonious during my lifetime. You guys just don't listen. You don't want to listen.

You guys are angry because you think people who don't look like you want to censor you. That's why you complain so bitterly about "woke" this and "woke" that.

But you censor yourself every day. If you have a female boss, you certainly don't use the "b" word when she's around. You don't use certain language around your female co-workers. If you did, the HR department would call you in within minutes, and you would be fired.

You don't tell dirty jokes around your young daughters, your elderly relatives or your priest/rabbi/minister.

And you definitely don't use the "N-word" anywhere a black person can hear you. Not if you care about your personal safety.

Total freedom to do and say whatever you want to anyone and everyone just can't exist if you intend to live in society. This is (or should be) common sense. To exist as human beings we have to respect each other. Self-restraint is a good thing. It separates human civilization from the way animals live.

Enough of the silly ethnic stereotypes. Treat people who are different the way you yourself would want to be treated.

'you guys' ????

[Kobeck]

Originally Posted by Mr. Marlin

Like Birdwatcher said the only thing worth discussing is how to work around the name change in the historical replay. I don't see any way around having to change it manually every game year. Which is really annoying. I'm hoping this won't apply to minor league team names because that will just be a hot mess to correct.

Hey I get the fact that the name and logo isn't nice and when my game hit's 2022 (if it ever does) they are the Guardians. But I freely admit I am a little anal when it comes to accurate historical logos, names, park dimensions, etc.

Exactly!

[Pelican]

Originally Posted by Antonin

For crying out loud. No, the movie Major League is not banned. It's very sad that comments from people with your point of view descend so quickly into the absurd.

I don't really understand why you guys are so emotionally attached to these names. If you really want to "honor" the people who were here when the Europeans arrived in North and South America, why not learn about their culture(s)? Learn one of their languages. Contribute to a charity that addresses problems on the reservations like alcoholism and opioid addiction.

When I see hundreds of people doing that silly "tomahawk chop" gesture, it seems like they just do it to poke their thumb in the eye of racial minorities and those evil libs. You are nervous because the world you thought you dominated is changing. You don't control the entire planet any more. People of color are sick and tired of "going along to get along." When I was a kid, the white players on my little league baseball team used to rub my head for luck. I'm black. I put up with it then, because "going along to get along" was a primary component of survival strategy for African-Americans. You just did what you had to do to get by. But I doubt that sort of thing would be tolerated now. Enough is enough.

You guys can't order and rearrange peoples and cultures anymore, and that makes you feel insecure.

In a way, it's sad. And it makes me very pessimistic that American society will become more harmonious during my lifetime. You guys just don't listen. You don't want to listen.

You guys are angry because you think people who don't look like you want to censor you. That's why you complain so bitterly about "woke" this and "woke" that.

But you censor yourself every day. If you have a female boss, you certainly don't use the "b" word when she's around. You don't use certain language around your female co-workers. If you did, the HR department would call you in within minutes, and you would be fired.

You don't tell dirty jokes around your young daughters, your elderly relatives or your priest/rabbi/minister.

And you definitely don't use the "N-word" anywhere a black person can hear you. Not if you care about your personal safety.

Total freedom to do and say whatever you want to anyone and everyone just can't exist if you intend to live in society. This is (or should be) common sense. To exist as human beings we have to respect each other. Self-restraint is a good thing. It separates human civilization from the way animals live.

Enough of the silly ethnic stereotypes. Treat people who are different the way you yourself would want to be treated.

What he said!

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by Antonin

For crying out loud. No, the movie Major League is not banned. It's very sad that comments from people with your point of view descend so quickly into the absurd.

I don't really understand why you guys are so emotionally attached to these names. If you really want to "honor" the people who were here when the Europeans arrived in North and South America, why not learn about their culture(s)? Learn one of their languages. Contribute to a charity that addresses problems on the reservations like alcoholism and opioid addiction.

When I see hundreds of people doing that silly "tomahawk chop" gesture, it seems like they just do it to poke their thumb in the eye of racial minorities and those evil libs. You are nervous because the world you thought you dominated is changing. You don't control the entire planet any more. People of color are sick and tired of "going along to get along." When I was a kid, the white players on my little league baseball team used to rub my head for luck. I'm black. I put up with it then, because "going along to get along" was a primary component of survival strategy for African-Americans. You just did what you had to do to get by. But I doubt that sort of thing would be tolerated now. Enough is enough.

You guys can't order and rearrange peoples and cultures anymore, and that makes you feel insecure.

In a way, it's sad. And it makes me very pessimistic that American society will become more harmonious during my lifetime. You guys just don't listen. You don't want to listen.

You guys are angry because you think people who don't look like you want to censor you. That's why you complain so bitterly about "woke" this and "woke" that.

But you censor yourself every day. If you have a female boss, you certainly don't use the "b" word when she's around. You don't use certain language around your female co-workers. If you did, the HR department would call you in within minutes, and you would be fired.

You don't tell dirty jokes around your young daughters, your elderly relatives or your priest/rabbi/minister.

And you definitely don't use the "N-word" anywhere a black person can hear you. Not if you care about your personal safety.

Total freedom to do and say whatever you want to anyone and everyone just can't exist if you intend to live in society. This is (or should be) common sense. To exist as human beings we have to respect each other. Self-restraint is a good thing. It separates human civilization from the way animals live.

Enough of the silly ethnic stereotypes. Treat people who are different the way you yourself would want to be treated.

Word