A little OOTP 11 update... - Page 6

JinAZ · 02-04-2010, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Our OPS+ will be different, it's the one from baseball-reference which basically compares the OPS to the league OPS. So a 120 OPS+ says that the player had a 20% higher OPS than league average.

Right, I figured that. The point of the link I included is that baseball-reference actually doesn't calculate it in a way that properly weights all events. But if you do it this way:
1.2*OBP/lgOBP + 0.8*SLG/lgSLG - 1
The weightings are almost dead-on linear weights. And it's still interpreted more or less in the same way as you describe, just fixing the inherent problems with OPS and OPS+'s weightings.
-j

Markus Heinsohn · 02-05-2010, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JinAZ

Right, I figured that. The point of the link I included is that baseball-reference actually doesn't calculate it in a way that properly weights all events. But if you do it this way:
1.2*OBP/lgOBP + 0.8*SLG/lgSLG - 1
The weightings are almost dead-on linear weights. And it's still interpreted more or less in the same way as you describe, just fixing the inherent problems with OPS and OPS+'s weightings.
-j

I know, but the OPS+ I want does not act as a new offensive measure, but rather as a display how another stats (OPS) relates to league average. If I change the weight of the two factors, one cannot compare it to league average anymore...

kq76 · 02-05-2010, 04:47 AM

Maybe as a compromise we could, in addition to wOBA, also get wOBA+ to adjust for park factors like OPS+ does? That way those of us interested in the best stats of today get what they would like while those still happy with yesterday's best stats get OPS+.

Malleus Dei · 02-05-2010, 08:25 AM

kq76 is right, we should be using the best modern stats, that is to say wOBA+ and tRA+, to evaluate batter and pitcher performance, respectively.

Markus, I ask you to please look carefully into doing that for OOTP 11.

ms2002 · 02-05-2010, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

kq76 is right, we should be using the best modern stats, that is to say wOBA+ and tRA+, to evaluate batter and pitcher performance, respectively.

Markus, I ask you to please look carefully into doing that for OOTP 11.

I'm definitely in favor of a wOBA+ or wRC+ statistic, but tRA wouldn't work in OOTP. tRA requires batted ball statistics that OOTP doesn't truly utilize. FIP+ would suffice...

ootpFox07 · 02-05-2010, 11:02 AM

@endgame, @nutlaw
I think you guys are right. The current injury system is pretty simplistic (maybe better that way, dunno?) and maybe it doesn't need to be AS complex as I spelled out. Maybe just a DTD hit could achieve the same effect.

rudel.dietrich · 02-05-2010, 01:23 PM

Sounds fantastic
Too bad though that the game is going to be released earlier. I would feel better about it if it had it's full year of development time.
Also, will the the game sim faster and take better advantage of multi core processors?

And as for the big announcement. I hope it is something about an ITP module. But I can dream

bigdgp2 · 02-05-2010, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

kq76 is right, we should be using the best modern stats, that is to say wOBA+ and tRA+, to evaluate batter and pitcher performance, respectively.

Markus, I ask you to please look carefully into doing that for OOTP 11.

Like.

Also, thank you Markus for taking the time to implement all of these statistics. As I play with ratings hidden [talent or actual], this will allow me to make more "objective" evaluations.

BTW, Malleus: After reading your posts on playing with ratings hidden, I gave it an honest attempt. Playing OOTP with hidden ratings has rekindled my interested in OOTPX. It allows the player more freedom to use their philosophies on talent evaluation; and, therefore, it creates a better, and far more challenging experience. So, thank you!

Malleus Dei · 02-05-2010, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdgp2

BTW, Malleus: After reading your posts on playing with ratings hidden, I gave it an honest attempt. Playing OOTP with hidden ratings has rekindled my interested in OOTPX. It allows the player more freedom to use their philosophies on talent evaluation; and, therefore, it creates a better, and far more challenging experience. So, thank you!

You are very welcome. Playing stats-only makes for a much better, richer, and more challenging game, doesn't it? Now you'll never go back to the old way.

Malleus Dei · 02-05-2010, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ms2002

I'm definitely in favor of a wOBA+ or wRC+ statistic, but tRA wouldn't work in OOTP. tRA requires batted ball statistics that OOTP doesn't truly utilize. FIP+ would suffice...

Explain to me why OOTP 11 coudn't keep track of line drives, fly balls, pop ups and ground balls, given that it's a new version and it should have been keeping track of these things anyway.

FIP is good (and better than Clay Dreslough's DICE) but it doesn't tell you hard a pitcher is being hit. tRA/tRA+ do.

Also, unless you are using the Hardball Times version of FIP instead of the original Tango version of FIP, you're not accounting for HBP's, which can be significant.

Bluenoser · 02-05-2010, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Sounds fantastic
Too bad though that the game is going to be released earlier. I would feel better about it if it had it's full year of development time.
Also, will the the game sim faster and take better advantage of multi core processors?

And as for the big announcement. I hope it is something about an ITP module. But I can dream

OOTP has never had a "full year" of development time.

Most people will feel better when OOTP gets back to the way it used to be and the way it makes the most sense, a release date that coincides with MLB opening day.

rudel.dietrich · 02-05-2010, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceM

OOTP has never had a "full year" of development time.

Most people will feel better when OOTP gets back to the way it used to be and the way it makes the most sense, a release date that coincides with MLB opening day.

The last few versions of OOTP have been released in late May/June have they not?
That would be a full year of development

Cooleyvol · 02-05-2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

The last few versions of OOTP have been released in late May/June have they not?
That would be a full year of development

That would assume dev starts in May/June which I highly doubt.

Bluenoser · 02-05-2010, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

The last few versions of OOTP have been released in late May/June have they not?
That would be a full year of development

Development usually starts in the fall.

Charlie Hough · 02-05-2010, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Wrong! We get it. We just think it's a really, really bad idea.

Surprise! Not everyone - in fact my guess is hardly anyone - wants to play historical the way you do.

You really come off as a completely pompous and arrogant person, and you've done nothing to make a case against my suggestion other than to make blind statements with no supporting evidence. Simply repeating the mantra that it's a bad idea is hardly convincing.

I will leave it to Markus to decide on whether my suggestion has merit, and I will let other OOTP gamers speak for themselves rather than listening to your royal "we".

It's too bad that this forum doesn't have an ignore feature, but I will do my best to disregard your posts in the future.

kq76 · 02-05-2010, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

It's too bad that this forum doesn't have an ignore feature, but I will do my best to disregard your posts in the future.

It does. Just click on a person's username, select "view public profile", click on "user lists" and select "add to ignore list".

Sure, people you don't care to read may still dominate a thread as others reply to them, but it may be better than nothing.

eriqjaffe · 02-05-2010, 05:38 PM

edit: kq beat me to it.

Le Grande Orange · 02-05-2010, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

You really come off as a completely pompous and arrogant person, and you've done nothing to make a case against my suggestion other than to make blind statements with no supporting evidence. Simply repeating the mantra that it's a bad idea is hardly convincing.

Do note that myself, amongst others, have raised practical objections to your idea.

KuwabaraTheMan · 02-05-2010, 05:56 PM

I'm really happy about pretty much all of these new features. It seems like many of my most wanted features on getting added into the new version of the game. I'm glad that there will be more advanced stats to take advantage of in the new version.

Malleus Dei · 02-05-2010, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

You really come off as a completely pompous and arrogant person, and you've done nothing to make a case against my suggestion other than to make blind statements with no supporting evidence. Simply repeating the mantra that it's a bad idea is hardly convincing. I will leave it to Markus to decide on whether my suggestion has merit, and I will let other OOTP gamers speak for themselves rather than listening to your royal "we". It's too bad that this forum doesn't have an ignore feature, but I will do my best to disregard your posts in the future.

You need to pay closer attention. Several of us raised objection to your bad idea, hence the "we," and no one has endorsed it. But go on living in denial as long as you like, and if putting me on ignore makes you feel better, then by all means go for it. It doesn't matter to me; I was here long before you got here, and I'll be here long after you're gone.

So please yourself. No matter what you do, though, your idea will remain a really bad one.

02-05-2010, 04:47 AM	#103
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,997	Maybe as a compromise we could, in addition to wOBA, also get wOBA+ to adjust for park factors like OPS+ does? That way those of us interested in the best stats of today get what they would like while those still happy with yesterday's best stats get OPS+. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) For Beta/Devs: Full screen (1920x1080)

02-05-2010, 11:02 AM	#106
ootpFox07 All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,685	@endgame, @nutlaw I think you guys are right. The current injury system is pretty simplistic (maybe better that way, dunno?) and maybe it doesn't need to be AS complex as I spelled out. Maybe just a DTD hit could achieve the same effect. __________________ OOTP Mods and Sites: SimLeaguesPro - The new Premiere site for Online Leagues that runs Fantasy Leagues off OOTP games! OOTP Fantasy Leagues - The original mod to run Fantasy leagues off OOTP games. Gaming Channels: GamerFox015 YouTube Gaming Channel with OOTP content Twitch.tv channel for live sims

02-05-2010, 05:38 PM	#117
eriqjaffe Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Location: Under The Christmas Fish Posts: 7,729	edit: kq beat me to it. __________________

02-05-2010, 01:23 PM	#107
rudel.dietrich Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Zürich, Switzerland Posts: 8,608	Sounds fantastic Too bad though that the game is going to be released earlier. I would feel better about it if it had it's full year of development time. Also, will the the game sim faster and take better advantage of multi core processors? And as for the big announcement. I hope it is something about an ITP module. But I can dream

02-05-2010, 05:56 PM	#119
KuwabaraTheMan Bat Boy Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 15	I'm really happy about pretty much all of these new features. It seems like many of my most wanted features on getting added into the new version of the game. I'm glad that there will be more advanced stats to take advantage of in the new version.