Red Sox - Rockies World Series

[Jestre]

Originally Posted by mikev

It was 13-1. I'm pretty sure Boston wouldn't have to use their main setup guys and closer to finish out the game.

Which is why they used Timlin and Gagne and let Beckett go 7.

[Joshv02]

Good points, Jestre - the teams didn't play each other that much, and I do'nt think Delcarmen was on the Roster then. Oki didn't get into a game.

It was 13-1. I'm pretty sure Boston wouldn't have to use their main setup guys and closer to finish out the game.

The choice was Beckett, Snyder, or the other bullpen guys. I just tried to explain why the choice was made as it was made. I don't understand your point.

[QuestGAV]

So if the Sox win game 2 how many articles get written about how much the long rest period hurt the Rockies? Will someone write that they should have let the DBacks win a game so they didn't get rusty?

[Hazza]

Originally Posted by myasu

After watching the game 1, I think the Red Sox should simply rest Ortiz in Colorado. It will obviously be an easier choice if the Sox will take game 2 and be up 2-0. Francona will still be able to use Ortiz as a pinch hitter in a crutial spot for either pitchers, or Lugo. (and then Cora will be the SS after that)

I think the 8 days off for the Rockies are hurting them, specially the pitchers. We will see if the Rockies will be able to bounce back and get back to the 21/22 form pretty soon.

My biggest concern right now is the game 3, Dice-K pitching in thin air, without Papi in the lineup.

It makes me wonder if the mentioned starting of Wake (Before he pulled out) in game 2 was not to give Schilling an extra day's rest, but to stop Wake getting sent into the Rocky Mountains ever other pitch...

[Prodigal Son]

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

So if the Sox win game 2 how many articles get written about how much the long rest period hurt the Rockies? Will someone write that they should have let the DBacks win a game so they didn't get rusty?

If the Rocks lose, yes, I think someone will write that.

[AnotherAlias]

Schilling looked old on that play.

[AnotherAlias]

1-0 Rox. FC RBI

[Green & Gold Heart]

2-1 Sox. It's too bad Ubaldo threw so many pitches. He was mostly getting guys out when he wasn't walking them.

[darkcloud4579]

I really wonder what the model for the modern expansion club is. I mean, we haven't seen one do it right yet. The Marlins just slash and burn every half decade or so, the Rockies get here now, but it took a monumental effort and the DBacks are just getting back from their own slash and burn effort.

Is it just the way these teams are handicapped from the start in regards to media money, their lack of savvy in terms of developing a fan base in tranisent cities or baseball's foolhardiness in putting teams in markets where they're never going to get anything other than fairweather fans?

[Prodigal Son]

Originally Posted by darkcloud4579

I really wonder what the model for the modern expansion club is. I mean, we haven't seen one do it right yet. The Marlins just slash and burn every half decade or so, the Rockies get here now, but it took a monumental effort and the DBacks are just getting back from their own slash and burn effort.

Is it just the way these teams are handicapped from the start in regards to media money, their lack of savvy in terms of developing a fan base in tranisent cities or baseball's foolhardiness in putting teams in markets where they're never going to get anything other than fairweather fans?

The big market teams have been around for a while. They got early baseball teams because, well, because they were big markets. The expansion teams are the "next biggest" markets available, so generally pretty small markets. And, like long-standing small market teams, new small market teams are at a major disadvantage in MLB.

BTW, the Rockies were pretty damned good shortly after their creation for a number of years.

[Erik W.]

"What an athletic move to get out of the way!"

Yes, Tim, him nearly falling into the liner and then stumbling around clumsily is a very athletic move to get out of the way.

[darkcloud4579]

If by good you mean over .500, so be it. But the only time they'd made the playoffs before this year was the strike-shortened year of 1995.

They won 83 games in '96 and '97..but that's not "damned good." That's over .500. Until this year, the only other winning season they had was in 2000 when they were 2 games over .500.

We'll see how they are in years past this one and whether they can build on this or if they'll bust and fire sale like their predecessor have.

[Hurkman]

I was going to say that the Rockies have only made the playoffs once before, but if you consider that being "damned good," I won't argue.

What I will argue with is that ESPN is putting Schilling's play tonight up there with some of the best efforts in history, while ignoring Colorado. Yes, Schilling pitched longer, and he did well, but Jimenez gave up just one more run than Curt, and now he pitched "5 1/3 strong innings." I'm still trying to find out how that makes him that much better than the rest of Boston's pitching.

And now the Red Sox have won. Let me tell you now, you are all Red Sox, Patriots, Celtics and Boston College fans. If you're not, you are a worthless front runner, and since you don't know what hockey is, and therefore I know I'm right. I stuck by the Flyers during last season, while a season like that caused you Boston fans to give up for a year. So you sit there, read your Bill Simmons articles on how awesome you are, and I'll laugh at all of you for it

[darkcloud4579]

I'm really irritated with the way they've made Colorado expendable in the commentary in this series.

It's so irritating. It was a pitching duel, but instead they'll say that the Rockies are rusty, that the layoff was bad for them and that the Red Sox are just that much better.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. But I knew when they came back from down 3-1 against Cleveland that they were on a mission. And honestly, their ownership ought to be rewarded. They've built that team, they've invested in players and it's a great model to show the Rockies that you can't win along on blind faith, praying to G-d and streaks. You have to stick to the fundmentals, but you also have to go after the top talent.

Their middle of the order has been non-existent in the past two weeks, save for a few brief flashes and that's why they've lost these games and there isn't an excuse for it. It's not just because Boston is better, either.

They've not put themselves in a position to go out there and win ballgames and they didn't really go out of their way to do that in the NLCS either, but the DBacks made it easy on them.

No way Boston allows that to happen and so, if this thing goes more than 5, I'll be surprised. It's not impossible for the Rockies to win 3 at home, it's just with the way they're playing right now...they haven't given me any reason to believe that they'll turn it around.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

The big market teams have been around for a while. They got early baseball teams because, well, because they were big markets. The expansion teams are the "next biggest" markets available, so generally pretty small markets. And, like long-standing small market teams, new small market teams are at a major disadvantage in MLB.

BTW, the Rockies were pretty damned good shortly after their creation for a number of years.

According to Forbes, the team value of Rockies was $303m in 1998, and $298m in 2006. Red Sox? $230 in 1998, and $617m in 2006.

Rockies was a "big market" team.

[darkcloud4579]

Red Sox were sold during that time and started NESN.

[Big Hugg]

Boston's the 11th largest market in the country.

The Yankees, Mets, Dodgers, Angels, Cubs, White Sox, Rangers, Phillies, Astros, Marlins, Nationals, Braves and Tigers all play in bigger markets than Boston.

Boston just did/does a better job of cultivating their market than almost all of them.

But the size of the market still rings true, that's why you see MLB making such an effort in Miami right now. It's the 7th largest market in the country, it's a sleeping giant if they ever can get in the right conditions.

[Prodigal Son]

Originally Posted by Big Hugg

Boston's the 11th largest market in the country.

The Yankees, Mets, Dodgers, Angels, Cubs, White Sox, Rangers, Phillies, Astros, Marlins, Nationals, Braves and Tigers all play in bigger markets than Boston.

Boston just did/does a better job of cultivating their market than almost all of them.

But the size of the market still rings true, that's why you see MLB making such an effort in Miami right now. It's the 7th largest market in the country, it's a sleeping giant if they ever can get in the right conditions.

That's misleading. Detroit and Atlanta may play in bigger markets by some standards, but those are the wrong standards. Boston's baseball market, which is a rather complicated concept, is huge.

[Prodigal Son]

Originally Posted by Hurkman

I was going to say that the Rockies have only made the playoffs once before, but if you consider that being "damned good," I won't argue.

For an expansion team, I'd say being over .500 by their third year, then following it up with .500+ records each of the next two years is pretty damned good. Certainly good enough to say that the Rockies were "doing it right," which was the essence of the counterclaim I was originally making, when darkcloud claimed that there is no model for the modern expansion club because nobody had done it right. I think Colorado certainly did things right out of the gate, but then some iffy management and the end of the honeymoon phase brought out Colorado's true colors as a not-so-big market team.

[Splitter24]

Originally Posted by Hurkman

And now the Red Sox have won. Let me tell you now, you are all Red Sox, Patriots, Celtics and Boston College fans. If you're not, you are a worthless front runner, and since you don't know what hockey is, and therefore I know I'm right. I stuck by the Flyers during last season, while a season like that caused you Boston fans to give up for a year. So you sit there, read your Bill Simmons articles on how awesome you are, and I'll laugh at all of you for it

As a Red Sox, Bruins and Patriots fan, I wonder what it is, exactly, that generated this paragraph.