Competitive balance discussion

[matingly23]

Originally Posted by Westheim

All this post says is "I have not been able to pounce on weaker teams for the last five days and if I can't be the pouncer, just the pouncee, I don't wanna play". - Quite the playground bully attitude. Weak.

Maybe it's me. Maybe I'm just not as spoiled as the previous poster, you, and the "several others".

Reminds me of the absolute barrenness of my dynasty team's string of 10 consecutive losing seasons. It took me a full real year to dig out of that. I wonder how y'all play the regular OOTP. When things get tough, you amp your pitcher's stuff rating for the playoff drive? Force trades? Oh, too bad that's not in the cards in this game.

In regular OOTP, I've never had a team suddenly fill its roster with 15 players rated 100 and 10 more rated frrom 90-99.

So I can't say it's remotely comparable.

I was looking more for a challenge against other people's GMing and managing styles as the AI isn't very good if you play the game long enough.

I am not looking to be nuked from orbit by someone who spends $1,000.

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by mcdog512

The main reason I last seriously watched baseball in 1994.....

I don't think they had a salary cap prior to 1994. They mainly had owners colluding prior to that.

Originally Posted by mcdog512

I'm not sure you are really listening to what he has to say. It's about the overall structure.

I was mainly referring to the post he quoted, which was right out of wonderland.

Originally Posted by mcdog512

In addition, a free to play league would be great. I'd love to see it but of course one perfect historical and one team would instantly become a super team. The idea of disabling the AH on such a FTP league would make sense due to this. It might be an interesting idea to look at by OOTP.

But we have already been about the reasons why there can not and can never been a free-to-play league a dozen times. OOTPD is a business. They made the mode the make money, and not because they won the lottery and didn't know what to do with their millions. Above you said you were not going to spend money originally. Yet you have now spent $250. You are the precise reason why there is no free-to-play league.

OOTP 20 is supposed to have assorted tournaments, like an all-silver tournament or whatever. In a perfect world, that would have been in the current version already. Unfortunately, it is not. It will probably solve a lot of complains people have. Teams will probably be already sent up to Gold level after the initial entry pool phase in 20 (which I am against, but if it reduces the complaining, for god's sake do it like that…). Maybe the open beta was not long enough.

In the end it doesn't change the fundamental truth that not all teams can go 108-54 every season, which seems to be a lingering gripe for a bunch of players. I'm probably getting relegated back to Gold after I go to bed now, but I have yet to make a rage post about it...

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by matingly23

In regular OOTP, I've never had a team suddenly fill its roster with 15 players rated 100 and 10 more rated frrom 90-99.

So I can't say it's remotely comparable.

Then you haven't cheated hard enough.

I could refer you to a certain dynasty thread from this year, but I have sowed enough discontent for today.

[matingly23]

Originally Posted by Westheim

Then you haven't cheated hard enough.

I could refer you to a certain dynasty thread from this year, but I have sowed enough discontent for today.

I've not played this game online except for PT. I don't think the AI can cheat. I don't need to cheat at all against an AI league to end up running a pretty much never-ending dynasty type of a team.

But if the AI could cheat, and it created Super-Whale teams like I am seeing now in my Silver League - I would "correct" such a team as Commish.

[mcdog512]

Originally Posted by Westheim

I don't think they had a salary cap prior to 1994. They mainly had owners colluding prior to that.



I was mainly referring to the post he quoted, which was right out of wonderland.



But we have already been about the reasons why there can not and can never been a free-to-play league a dozen times. OOTPD is a business. They made the mode the make money, and not because they won the lottery and didn't know what to do with their millions. Above you said you were not going to spend money originally. Yet you have now spent $250. You are the precise reason why there is no free-to-play league.

OOTP 20 is supposed to have assorted tournaments, like an all-silver tournament or whatever. In a perfect world, that would have been in the current version already. Unfortunately, it is not. It will probably solve a lot of complains people have. Teams will probably be already sent up to Gold level after the initial entry pool phase in 20 (which I am against, but if it reduces the complaining, for god's sake do it like that…). Maybe the open beta was not long enough.

In the end it doesn't change the fundamental truth that not all teams can go 108-54 every season, which seems to be a lingering gripe for a bunch of players. I'm probably getting relegated back to Gold after I go to bed now, but I have yet to make a rage post about it...

No **** they didn't have a salary cap before 1994. I think Jim Bouton laid out quite eloquently how the owners had the players by the balls from the1800's though free agency in the 70's. My issue is the course correction to balance it never happened. Anyway, that doesn't matter for this discussion. Once competitive balance such as the NFL is achieved I'll return as I love baseball. Played it for years and loved it for more years.

I see your point about free leagues but I can assure you with all my heart, $250 isn't happening again. The tournament thing might be very cool and perhaps that is the answer here.

[stl jason]

Originally Posted by screamingpalm

Not new winning team- my main. I really like the game, don't get me wrong. I just seem to have much more fun in the lower tier leagues. My main is ahead by just a few games in Gold league, but like I said... sick and tired of seeing Corbin et al (apologies to IRL Patrick).

My new team is FTP but I used the AH to build a team with nothing but Mariners. Tin Felix is doing awesome as well as Marco Gonzales, but Paxton is getting SHELLED. It's been fun so far. My point was obviously it isn't just about winning.

I had planned to do it from the get go and my starter pack gold was Bret Boone (meant to be lol).

then good luck to you and your new team.... I think picking a plan/theme and sticking with it will make all the difference in enjoyment level (at least it has for me)...

and I got a good chuckle here after the last game finished.... my pack only/no AH/F2P team just clinched their silver division by beating.... Patrick Corbin....

[CONN CHRIS]

The comments in here are entirely too uncivil. Clean up your words or the thread will get closed at the very least.

[mcdog512]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

The comments in here are entirely too uncivil. Clean up your words or the thread will get closed at the very least.

Fair enough - apologies.

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

The comments in here are entirely too uncivil. Clean up your words or the thread will get closed at the very least.

This is not directed at anyone in particular (for now). Lots of pissy comments and loads of post reports herein.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

This is not directed at anyone in particular (for now). Lots of pissy comments and loads of post reports herein.

You really can't close this thread, or you will have no place to merge the other 50 threads that you didn't like.

[screamingpalm]

Originally Posted by Westheim

But we have already been about the reasons why there can not and can never been a free-to-play league a dozen times. OOTPD is a business. They made the mode the make money, and not because they won the lottery and didn't know what to do with their millions.

Sorry if I'm being thick (or possibly beating a dead horse) but it seems like the two could co-exist. I don't think a separate mode would prevent anyone from continuing to spend money in the existing format. There will be those that prefer it and the AH, quick progression, etc.

If they simply don't want to do it, that's fine of course.

[NYY #23]

Originally Posted by screamingpalm

Sorry if I'm being thick (or possibly beating a dead horse) but it seems like the two could co-exist. I don't think a separate mode would prevent anyone from continuing to spend money in the existing format. There will be those that prefer it and the AH, quick progression, etc.

If they simply don't want to do it, that's fine of course.

At a minimum start with server costs, and it would only go up from there.

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by screamingpalm

Sorry if I'm being thick (or possibly beating a dead horse) but it seems like the two could co-exist. I don't think a separate mode would prevent anyone from continuing to spend money in the existing format. There will be those that prefer it and the AH, quick progression, etc.

If they simply don't want to do it, that's fine of course.

How much would a free league cause a loss in profit. I don't personally see any reason to spend money if the free leagues followed the same structure as the current pay leagues. In other words, if you can get to a Perfect league and compete or best team in a perfect league, why do it in a paid league if free is an option. Also, teams would have to avoid the temptation to spend $20 or $40 to get that one favorite Perfect or Diamond player or else they get teleported to the paid leagues. I personally can't see a way of making it work without losing revenue overall by providing benefit to those that aren't providing revenue (outside the original OOTP purchase) in the first place.

[screamingpalm]

Originally Posted by <Pion>

How much would a free league cause a loss in profit. I don't personally see any reason to spend money if the free leagues followed the same structure as the current pay leagues. In other words, if you can get to a Perfect league and compete or best team in a perfect league, why do it in a paid league if free is an option. Also, teams would have to avoid the temptation to spend $20 or $40 to get that one favorite Perfect or Diamond player or else they get teleported to the paid leagues. I personally can't see a way of making it work without losing revenue overall by providing benefit to those that aren't providing revenue (outside the original OOTP purchase) in the first place.

I guess the way I imagine it, without an AH, is that you actually could not do it the same as you would in a paid league. So paid leagues are always going to have a draw for those that want to do it that way, or dislike not having control of buying the cards they want etc. Server costs maybe? But then that might also draw in more players that might end up spending on the paid leagues. But hey, that's above my pay grade. So I'll leave my suggestion at that I guess. Cheers!

[mcdog512]

Originally Posted by <Pion>

How much would a free league cause a loss in profit. I don't personally see any reason to spend money if the free leagues followed the same structure as the current pay leagues. In other words, if you can get to a Perfect league and compete or best team in a perfect league, why do it in a paid league if free is an option. Also, teams would have to avoid the temptation to spend $20 or $40 to get that one favorite Perfect or Diamond player or else they get teleported to the paid leagues. I personally can't see a way of making it work without losing revenue overall by providing benefit to those that aren't providing revenue (outside the original OOTP purchase) in the first place.

Only way would be no AH......you draw what you draw period.

People who want to get certain players or want to fight it out with the best
would be using the AH as it would be enabled in the normal leagues.

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by screamingpalm

I guess the way I imagine it, without an AH, is that you actually could not do it the same as you would in a paid league. So paid leagues are always going to have a draw for those that want to do it that way, or dislike not having control of buying the cards they want etc. Server costs maybe? But then that might also draw in more players that might end up spending on the paid leagues. But hey, that's above my pay grade. So I'll leave my suggestion at that I guess. Cheers!

Without an AH? So packs are the only way to get better and the only thing to spend earned PP on?

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by mcdog512

Only way would be no AH......you draw what you draw period.

People who want to get certain players or want to fight it out with the best
would be using the AH as it would be enabled in the normal leagues.

Sounds as exciting as watching paint dry and leaves everything to pure chance. Takes the GM completely out of the loop and only leaves luck and coaching as the way to win... or am I missing something.

[mcdog512]

Originally Posted by <Pion>

Without an AH? So packs are the only way to get better and the only thing to spend earned PP on?

Yea, that would be the idea.


edit: Then play the regular league....this would be people who want to go that route.......I would never suggest no AH for all leagues......

[NYY #23]

Originally Posted by <Pion>

Sounds as exciting as watching paint dry and leaves everything to pure chance. Takes the GM completely out of the loop and only leaves luck and coaching as the way to win... or am I missing something.

Plus, what would you do with duplicate cards?

[screamingpalm]

Originally Posted by <Pion>

Sounds as exciting as watching paint dry and leaves everything to pure chance. Takes the GM completely out of the loop and only leaves luck and coaching as the way to win... or am I missing something.

To each their own heh. Personally, I prefer an element of randomness and coming up with a strategy. Following a cookie cutter build order or meta isn't strategy in my book. YMMV

Duplicate cards = quick sell.