2007 New York Yankees Thread - Page 52

darkhorse · 06-18-2007, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomamon

Fast Forward and here we are in 2007. This is a totally different ball player, not your mama's A-Rod(Remember, she wrote a note excusing his poor performance in 2005).

ARod's performance in 2005 and 2007 are almost mirror images in quality.

Thank you, drive through!

Code:

2005:  .321/.421/.610
2007:  .309/.409/.679

1998 Yankees · 06-18-2007, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkhorse

ARod's performance in 2005 and 2007 are almost mirror images in quality.

Thank you, drive through!

Code:

2005:  .321/.421/.610
2007:  .309/.409/.679

No arguments. But still, thomamon is right about the difference in A-Rod. If you followed the Yankees every day, you would know what he is talking about. Those 2005 numbers certainly helped, but much of that seemed to come in situations where they did not determine game outcomes; i.e., clutch situations in which he regularly failed to produce. He seemed to be aware of that criticism in 2006, when his production certainly went down signficantly and he appeared to be wilting under the pressure. The 2007 version of A-Rod appears much more confident, and his bat is winning games. Looks a lot different to me.

mikev · 06-18-2007, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

No arguments. But still, thomamon is right about the difference in A-Rod. If you followed the Yankees every day, you would know what he is talking about. Those 2005 numbers certainly helped, but much of that seemed to come in situations where they did not determine game outcomes; i.e., clutch situations in which he regularly failed to produce. He seemed to be aware of that criticism in 2006, when his production certainly went down signficantly and he appeared to be wilting under the pressure. The 2007 version of A-Rod appears much more confident, and his bat is winning games. Looks a lot different to me.

See, that's just not correct.

His 2005 line was 302/.429/.512 with 2 outs and RISP, .283/.382/.478 in "close and late", and .336/.448/.706(!) when the game was tied. He also had a 1.000 OPS in the 8th inning, and a 1.100 OPS in the 9th inning in 2005.

But he went 2-15 in the playoffs, so he sucks and he's not clutch.

mlyons · 06-18-2007, 01:59 PM

This is why people don't like Yankee fans.

1998 Yankees · 06-18-2007, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikev

See, that's just not correct.

His 2005 line was 302/.429/.512 with 2 outs and RISP, .283/.382/.478 in "close and late", and .336/.448/.706(!) when the game was tied. He also had a 1.000 OPS in the 8th inning, and a 1.100 OPS in the 9th inning in 2005.

But he went 2-15 in the playoffs, so he sucks and he's not clutch.

Well, one thing is for sure. He looks a lot different in 2007 than he did in 2006. Can you check those numbers for us from 2006? I am sure they will support the difference in perceptions from what perhaps started in 2005 and intensified in 2006 (granted, magnified by stupid media and spoiled fan expectations) to what we are seeing now. For now, I might add.

mlyons · 06-18-2007, 02:02 PM

Yes, it's true. In 2006 he was merely one of the best third basemen in baseball, instead of one of the best hitters in baseball. String him up!

1998 Yankees · 06-18-2007, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlyons

Yes, it's true. In 2006 he was merely one of the best third basemen in baseball, instead of one of the best hitters in baseball. String him up!

Bear in mind, we are not bashing him here (not today at least, and not by me, if you care to read all the posts). All we are saying is that he looks more confident this year and that more of his admittedly impressive production is coming under pressure, in clutch situations these days.

mikev · 06-18-2007, 02:07 PM

A-Rod 2006 splits

RISP, 2 out: .313/.495/.475
Close/Late: .279/.353/.519
Tie game: .227/.350/.440
8th inning: .333/.440/.587
9th inning: .143/.231/.429

The 9th inning is the obvious anomoly, and it's only a sample size of 36 AB.

Prior81 · 06-18-2007, 02:12 PM

haha, perfect deconstruction of another sports cliche or "perception". The stats do NOT lie.

mlyons · 06-18-2007, 02:14 PM

He's been playing incredibly across the board, though. It's just been good luck that he's been at the plate at times when he could make a big difference this season. He did about the same in "clutch" situations as every other situation last year; he just didn't have as many of those opportunities as he's had this year (by dumb luck as much as anything else) and wasn't playing at as high a level overall.

1998 Yankees · 06-18-2007, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlyons

He's been playing incredibly across the board, though. It's just been good luck that he's been at the plate at times when he could make a big difference this season. He did about the same in "clutch" situations as every other situation last year; he just didn't have as many of those opportunities as he's had this year (by dumb luck as much as anything else) and wasn't playing at as high a level overall.

The good news in all of this success, if it continues, may be that as A-Rod enjoys himself so much and is showered with (two-faced) affection by the fans this season, he is likely to re-sign with New York (whatever that entails, opting in or opting out and negotiating a new deal) rather than go elsewhere like Boston, as one overly eager poster gushed earlier.

Luis_Rivera · 06-18-2007, 02:40 PM

One thing you can rest assured is that if ARod decides to opt out because of the media, logically it doesn't make sense that he'd go to Boston. That'd be kind of like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

By the way, I think the point that everyone is trying to make can be summed up by saying that people's perceptions are flawed. No matter if you watch every second of every game, you're not going to see things objectively. It's not just you guys, it's everyone including myself. This is why I rely on objective data to make my judgments.

Don't like ARod if you want... there's nothing wrong with inserting a little personality and storyline into your love of baseball. It can obviously enhance your enjoyment. It's the making judgments and definitive statements on a player's worth based on those subjective feelings that just doesn't fly right.

1998 Yankees · 06-18-2007, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

By the way, I think the point that everyone is trying to make can be summed up by saying that people's perceptions are flawed. No matter if you watch every second of every game, you're not going to see things objectively. It's not just you guys, it's everyone including myself. This is why I rely on objective data to make my judgments.

I perceive this to be a very perceptive comment.

Luis_Rivera · 06-18-2007, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

I perceive this to be a very perceptive comment.

Well, in order to truly determine if it's right, rather than your decision being colored by your obvious perception of myself being a FANTASTIC AND INTELLIGENT person, you'll have to go back and collect all the data regarding statements I've made and find out my % of being right. Then, you can determine the probability that it is a true statement and we can go from there. This could be the new frontier of sabermetrics.

thomamon · 06-18-2007, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Well, one thing is for sure. He looks a lot different in 2007 than he did in 2006. Can you check those numbers for us from 2006? I am sure they will support the difference in perceptions from what perhaps started in 2005 and intensified in 2006 (granted, magnified by stupid media and spoiled fan expectations) to what we are seeing now. For now, I might add.

Whats not fair to A-Rod is that because of who he is, his standards are not on the level of any other player. Sure, he had "off" years for A-Rod since coming to the Yankees. However, an "Off" year for A-Rod is a pretty damn good year for anyone else. I think its only fair we point that out.

Luis_Rivera · 06-18-2007, 03:07 PM

What is also lost in this is that ARod is now 31 years old and is not likely to maintain the unreal run he's had in his 20's. Hell, had he stayed at SS, he had the potential to surpass Honus Wagner as the greatest SS of all time as long as he doesn't decline too fast.

edrooney · 06-18-2007, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

Well, in order to truly determine if it's right, rather than your decision being colored by your obvious perception of myself being a FANTASTIC AND INTELLIGENT person, you'll have to go back and collect all the data regarding statements I've made and find out my % of being right. Then, you can determine the probability that it is a true statement and we can go from there. This could be the new frontier of sabermetrics.

You're Billy Beane!! You wrote Moneyball!!

CMH · 06-18-2007, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

What is also lost in this is that ARod is now 31 years old and is not likely to maintain the unreal run he's had in his 20's. Hell, had he stayed at SS, he had the potential to surpass Honus Wagner as the greatest SS of all time as long as he doesn't decline too fast.

It's crazy. Yesterday, Jeter was talking about how old he was and that he doesn't run as much for those reasons. I know 32 isn't that old, but he's got a point. He isn't the 24 year old SS winning championships every year anymore.

Alex is having a remarkable year and I'd like to see him continue this pace well into his late 30's, but we don't know if that'll happen.

I do want to note that I hope Alex's late-inning and RISP numbers over the past few years prove that the numbers are usually around a player's all-around production. This is something I get into arguments about all the time because Ortiz just happened to have one abnormal late-inning year and no one wants to believe that he isn't Superman in the 9th inning.

hayesb26 · 06-19-2007, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YankeePride

He isn't the 24 year old SS winning championships every year anymore.

Hard to believe, isn't it?! Seems like just yesterday...

Muppetus Galacticus · 06-19-2007, 09:07 AM

Didn't see this reported yet - http://www.reuters.com/article/sport...ype=RSS&rpc=22

Quote:

MIAMI (Reuters) - The New York Yankees have become the first major league side to sign Chinese players after bringing in two teenagers, the team said on Monday.

Left-handed pitcher Kai Liu and catcher Zhenwang Zhang, both 19, have signed for the team with the approval of the Chinese Baseball Association, the Yankees announced on their official Web site (http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com).

06-18-2007, 01:59 PM	#1024
mlyons Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,725	This is why people don't like Yankee fans. __________________ Things can always be worse.

06-18-2007, 02:02 PM	#1026
mlyons Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,725	Yes, it's true. In 2006 he was merely one of the best third basemen in baseball, instead of one of the best hitters in baseball. String him up! __________________ Things can always be worse.

06-18-2007, 02:07 PM	#1028
mikev Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 4,014	A-Rod 2006 splits RISP, 2 out: .313/.495/.475 Close/Late: .279/.353/.519 Tie game: .227/.350/.440 8th inning: .333/.440/.587 9th inning: .143/.231/.429 The 9th inning is the obvious anomoly, and it's only a sample size of 36 AB. __________________ Global Unified Baseball Association - Vice Commish and Oakland Oaks GM

06-18-2007, 02:14 PM	#1030
mlyons Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,725	He's been playing incredibly across the board, though. It's just been good luck that he's been at the plate at times when he could make a big difference this season. He did about the same in "clutch" situations as every other situation last year; he just didn't have as many of those opportunities as he's had this year (by dumb luck as much as anything else) and wasn't playing at as high a level overall. __________________ Things can always be worse.

06-18-2007, 02:40 PM	#1032
Luis_Rivera Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,177	One thing you can rest assured is that if ARod decides to opt out because of the media, logically it doesn't make sense that he'd go to Boston. That'd be kind of like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire. By the way, I think the point that everyone is trying to make can be summed up by saying that people's perceptions are flawed. No matter if you watch every second of every game, you're not going to see things objectively. It's not just you guys, it's everyone including myself. This is why I rely on objective data to make my judgments. Don't like ARod if you want... there's nothing wrong with inserting a little personality and storyline into your love of baseball. It can obviously enhance your enjoyment. It's the making judgments and definitive statements on a player's worth based on those subjective feelings that just doesn't fly right. Last edited by Luis_Rivera; 06-18-2007 at 02:42 PM.

06-18-2007, 02:12 PM	#1029
Prior81 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 302	haha, perfect deconstruction of another sports cliche or "perception". The stats do NOT lie.

06-18-2007, 03:07 PM	#1036
Luis_Rivera Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,177	What is also lost in this is that ARod is now 31 years old and is not likely to maintain the unreal run he's had in his 20's. Hell, had he stayed at SS, he had the potential to surpass Honus Wagner as the greatest SS of all time as long as he doesn't decline too fast.