Competitive balance discussion

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by chazzycat

this is well understood, now. It was just the first time is all, and many of us spent money only to trap our teams into unwinnable and non-fun situations. We won't be making that mistake again. Bashing people for not perfectly predicting the balance, on the very first attempt, is not productive to the discussion.

Neither is bashing OOTP for being a bit aggressive on the promotion cycle in their first go-round.

[chazzycat]

where did I bash OOTP? Maybe if my comments from the other locked thread were here, it would be more clear I friggin love this game and was not trying to complain. I was merely trying to pass on my feedback, that I feel like the money I spent was not a good decision, and probably won't do it again. That seems like relevant feedback the devs might want to hear and consider for next year. I am really just looking out for a game I love. That is all. I will stop beating the horse now.

[Orcin]

Somebody will be promoted to Diamond league from Gold when the level is initially populated. The league must be filled. Your team was promoted because it had a better record at Gold than someone else. Do you think it is fair for you to stay in Gold and have the team below you promoted? How is that player going to feel?

The developers have already stated on numerous occasions that they plan to address the issue of rapid advancement in OOTP20. What else do you want them to do?

[runyan99]

I would agree that without any competitive balance at all within the league tiers, the best strategy is shaping up either to spend $0 per season or $1000 per season, but not in between.

At least that's how it looks like it is shaping up to me during this first go around with OOTP19.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by chazzycat

where did I bash OOTP?.

I am referring to this entire 50-page thread, not you specifically.

[stl jason]

I like to look at the entire v19 PT run as one extended beta... we get to see what works and what could use some tweaks... we all get to figure out how our own play styles translate to the game and can adjust accordingly when v20 comes out; and the devs can make any changes to the pro/rel design going forward (like rapid advancement of the juggernaut teams to higher levels or the like).

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by runyan99

I would agree that without any competitive balance at all within the league tiers

This statement is nonsense. Plenty of people have posted about competitive leagues at all levels. You are just being argumentative.

[DonkeyKongSr]

Originally Posted by runyan99

I would agree that without any competitive balance at all within the league tiers, the best strategy is shaping up either to spend $0 per season or $1000 per season, but not in between.

At least that's how it looks like it is shaping up to me during this first go around with OOTP19.

At about $100 spent, I'm likely barely going to miss the Perfect playoffs after winning my conference every season so far. I'm having fun trying to figure out who to beat the $300 cards and I'm getting a bit closer. I'm probably just a Perfect Dennis Eckersley from a division title.

I'm not about to come here and demand a refund because I'm now essentially stuck in leagues where most teams have 5 or 6 Perfects. It's become much more challenging and frankly way more fun, even though this will be my team's first "failed" season. I'm not going to spend any more and instead tweak my line-up and strategies from here on out. Also, I'm really enjoying Auction House flipping right now and will try and chain-flip my way up to that Eckersley card.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by SayHey1

You're right, it's senseless to assume you're going to compete IF you know this in advance.

On the other hand, how would any of us know this in advance? I've heard the Devs exclaim that PT has exceeded their own hopes by leaps and bounds. Great for them! Not so great for the small to middle investor.
As described earlier, we inadvertently bought our way into a no win situation. Understand?

No, I don't understand how you could not know that people would spend a lot of money on this game. They spend money on Wordscapes! People spend more than $100 on Candy Crush!

You did know that there was a screen to buy Perfect Points, right? Have you looked at it? I willing to bet you have seen it. There's a button on that screen to spend $99.99 for 175,000 points. Did you seriously assume that no one would EVER push that button?

[DonkeyKongSr]

Originally Posted by Orcin

No, I don't understand how you could not know that people would spend a lot of money on this game. They spend money on Wordscapes! People spend more than $100 on Candy Crush!

You did know that there was a screen to buy Perfect Points, right? Have you looked at it? I willing to bet you have seen it. There's a button on that screen to spend $99.99 for 175,000 points. Did you seriously assume that no one would EVER push that button?

I'm not sure how anyone could not understand why people would spend money on this. Many people (my younger self included) drop $60 each month on a new video game. I enjoy playing this game 20+ hours each week and as an analytics nerd, I enjoy it much more than many of the games that I used to pay $60 for. The amount I've spent is very reasonable for the enjoyment I've had so far. Also, the resulting kickstart the money gave me certainly provided more enjoyment than the cosmetics that people pay for in other games.

[matingly23]

Hi! I am pretty new to PT, I'm in week 3 now in a Silver league.

The first two weeks were a lot of fun, although I wish the entry pool had play-offs. But things were pretty fair competition-wise. Some teams were super bad, probably just created and forgotten about.

Now in a Silver league, I would expect most teams to have a lot of Silver players, maybe some Gold and Bronze mixed in too.

I would not expect this:

https://imgur.com/a/iEPqRNn

There's basically no reason for any of the teams except for this one to be in this league as none have a chance. 15 out of 25 players are 100s, the rest are 90+.

And there are dozens more on the inactive roster.

How are Silver level teams supposed to play that team? Why is it in Silver?

What I suggest is you break the game in to leagues for teams that have the option to pay, and for teams that won't have that option - ie, "free" leagues.

Otherwise I fear I will see this more and more and will lose interest as it's simply impossible to win against big spenders.

[NYY #23]

Originally Posted by matingly23

Hi! I am pretty new to PT, I'm in week 3 now in a Silver league.

The first two weeks were a lot of fun, although I wish the entry pool had play-offs. But things were pretty fair competition-wise. Some teams were super bad, probably just created and forgotten about.

Now in a Silver league, I would expect most teams to have a lot of Silver players, maybe some Gold and Bronze mixed in too.

I would not expect this:

https://imgur.com/a/iEPqRNn

There's basically no reason for any of the teams except for this one to be in this league as none have a chance. 15 out of 25 players are 100s, the rest are 90+.

And there are dozens more on the inactive roster.

How are Silver level teams supposed to play that team? Why is it in Silver?

What I suggest is you break the game in to leagues for teams that have the option to pay, and for teams that won't have that option - ie, "free" leagues.

Otherwise I fear I will see this more and more and will lose interest as it's simply impossible to win against big spenders.

Is this their first time in silver and they are passing through, or have they somehow tanked to beat up on lesser teams?

If it's the first they'll move on and it will be a one week blip and they'll move up quickly. If they are doing something shady that's another story.

[Thalion]

That's just the latest multi-hundred (self admitted) whale on his way up to the top.

Ignore him. I think he craves attention.

[matingly23]

Originally Posted by Thalion

That's just the latest multi-hundred (self admitted) whale on his way up to the top.

Ignore him. I think he craves attention.

I don't care about him personally, but I think there should be a choice to enter a Free League where his ilk can't exist. It's probably some spoiled kid.

How I would love to see that team stumble and lose in the play-offs, but there is basically 0 chance.

[matingly23]

Originally Posted by NYY #23

Is this their first time in silver and they are passing through, or have they somehow tanked to beat up on lesser teams?

If it's the first they'll move on and it will be a one week blip and they'll move up quickly. If they are doing something shady that's another story.

I think it's their first time through, and my guess is they've spent hundreds, if not over $1,000 on points.

Maybe there can either be "free" leagues, or if you spend more than X your team is bumped up to the highest bracket.

The last thing that team needs is bonus points from winning a Silver league championship.

[Maddox]

In my main teams gold league

• The division leaders are all between 79 and 89 Wins
• Nobody has clinched yet
• 4 divisions are still reasonably in play (Lead of 5 games or less)
• There are 13 teams in play for the 4 wildcard spots. The worst of these teams is only 3 games back.

That seems fairly competitive to me. Are all leagues like this. Probably not. But there is some competitive balance to be found.

[Thalion]

Originally Posted by matingly23

I don't care about him personally, but I think there should be a choice to enter a Free League where his ilk can't exist. It's probably some spoiled kid.

How I would love to see that team stumble and lose in the play-offs, but there is basically 0 chance.

He may not this year, but he will lose eventually.


Earlier this week, he was more than a bit perturbed in Discord when he learned that his team wasn't being transferred to PT 20.

[matingly23]

Originally Posted by Thalion

He may not this year, but he will lose eventually.


Earlier this week, he was more than a bit perturbed in Discord when he learned that his team wasn't being transferred to PT 20.

Where are the chats located? Are the old ones archived?

And what a shame I'm so sad that team won't be transferred, guess he'll need to ask Pop for more $$.

[stl jason]

Originally Posted by Maddox

In my main teams gold league

• The division leaders are all between 79 and 89 Wins
• Nobody has clinched yet
• 4 divisions are still reasonably in play (Lead of 5 games or less)
• There are 13 teams in play for the 4 wildcard spots. The worst of these teams is only 3 games back.

That seems fairly competitive to me. Are all leagues like this. Probably not. But there is some competitive balance to be found.

'bout the same in my silver league.... 13 games remaining... only 3 teams have been eliminated and no divisions have been locked up yet (closest is a magic number of 5)... 14 teams are within 4.5 games of the wildcard spots... makes for a fun final couple weeks.

hopefully in v20, we'll be able to click around to view other leagues to see those races and compare the competitive balance across the board.

Originally Posted by Thalion

He may not this year, but he will lose eventually.


Earlier this week, he was more than a bit perturbed in Discord when he learned that his team wasn't being transferred to PT 20.

sorry... Mr Schadenfreude got a good chuckle from that.... i wonder if a rage quit is in the near future

[Thalion]

Originally Posted by matingly23

Where are the chats located? Are the old ones archived?

And what a shame I'm so sad that team won't be transferred, guess he'll need to ask Pop for more $$.

We're all on the OOTP Discord channel.