How to create a monster team in OOTP 24?

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Samueltbaum

Seems discussions like this have gone on for years. hahahah. I read a bunch on the 24 thread discussing HR records, the others were before 24 wasn't too interested in previous games, as I wasn't experiencing my dilemna in previous versions.

Thanks for the post though. Some people do get very aggressive in the posts.

Why didn't you read posts about previous versions? The game is ready to release its 25th version. Do you think the devs suddenly changed their long stated principles?

[Brad K]

I wish one of the devs would show up and clarify this issue. Actually I don't care if I'm wrong and the game caps performance of very good teams. Because if they cap team performance then they've crossed the line and I can argue for floors and ceilings on player performance too.

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by jcard

Quite frankly, I credit the forbearance and patience you have displayed. You have been confronted with a great deal “knowledge” that—setting aside questions of soundness—is at best of secondary and often peripheral or even non-existent importance to what at its core is a very simple question:

“I did something in v21 and consistently attained a certain result. I did the same thing in v24 and consistently attained a certain distinctly different result. Why?”

I didnÂ’t have an answer for you when you first asked. After reading pages of feedback, I know that I am no closer to possessing one. I imagine it is doubly frustrating for you.

I'm not frustrated at all. I think its been a peaceful discussion overall. Some posts turn into attacks, and that is when it becomes frustrating.

I've learned more about modifiers from this post, which was something I had never played with before, as I never needed to before to accomplish my goals in OOTP. The modifiers helped a little to stop my teams from getting destroyed by the worst teams in the league, but didn't dramatically change my wins total, as all of the other teams stats increased as well.

From the the link in that post it seems that offensive output is higher by players when playing historic seasons. But I'm sure it also increases offensive output by other teams. I don't ever play the past seasons. After my "win world series quick with junk team" quest is finished, I enjoy to play around with the game and create monster teams destroying records.

Thanks for the post!

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Is it really a question? The OP has a theory that the game penalizes strong teams and thus is not random. He's asking for support for that theory.

The theory is not consistent with the dev's stated commitment to randomness and refusal to implement performance caps.

The original question was how to create a monster team that wins 130+ games in OOTP 24.

I added theories of capping, simply because 1 the OOTP 21, 18,17 never had this problem and 2. no realistic monster offensive team would put up such low numbers in real life regardless of season.

A team full of All-Stars in any season 1900 - 2023, wouldn't have their stats decreased to balance the league just because the Oakland A's had a team full of minor leaguers.

I would be intrigued to hear from a Devs take on this discussion.

Thanks for post!

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Why didn't you read posts about previous versions? The game is ready to release its 25th version. Do you think the devs suddenly changed their long stated principles?

I didn't read, because it didn't have the issues in previous versions. the other 3 seem to be from 2021, a game I had no concerns with. In that version my teams wrecked the league, put up monster numbers as a whole, and only got beat bad, be good teams.

That said I'll go though one and see/read a couple dev responses. But I anticipate that their response will simply be that there is no cap (based on previous posts here).

Thank you!

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Brad K

I wish one of the devs would show up and clarify this issue. Actually I don't care if I'm wrong and the game caps performance of very good teams. Because if they cap team performance then they've crossed the line and I can argue for floors and ceilings on player performance too.

I've greatly enjoyed your input. That said 2023 may be very different games, structure than 24. 21 is very different than 24, as far on how well a team can destroy the league. I wouldn't never had made this post about 21, since I never saw the theory that OOTP 21 caps team output/levels the playing field, because I never experienced that myself. This whole discussion is solely 24.

I can't enter a discussion about 19. 20, 22, 23 because I never played those games. I don't have a dog in that fight since they may be very different games/programming, that I have no experience with.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Samueltbaum

I didn't read, because it didn't have the issues in previous versions. the other 3 seem to be from 2021, a game I had no concerns with. In that version my teams wrecked the league, put up monster numbers as a whole, and only got beat bad, be good teams.

That said I'll go though one and see/read a couple dev responses. But I anticipate that their response will simply be that there is no cap (based on previous posts here).

Thank you!

OK, then your question is answered. There is nothing in 24 to cap the performance of a good team. Thus it's random.

[Brad K]

What features do you like about 24 that previous versions don't have?

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Brad K

I wish one of the devs would show up and clarify this issue. Actually I don't care if I'm wrong and the game caps performance of very good teams. Because if they cap team performance then they've crossed the line and I can argue for floors and ceilings on player performance too.

I wish a Dev would join in as well. But, that said, I simply gather there is some setting I can adjust to stop having an team of monsters get destroyed by the worst team in the league. I'd rather stick with 24, and see what setting I need to adjust to make 24 game play similar to 21. It may not be possible, and the Dev's may say that they are the same. If that happened, I would greatly be confused. That's all I'm looking for. I know I can play 21 again and accomplish everything I want to. I already know I love my 21 wife, I'm trying to have a 24 wife with cool new features as well. hahaha.

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Brad K

OK, then your question is answered. There is nothing in 24 to cap the performance of a good team. Thus it's random.

Maybe cap isn't the right phrase. Based on the engines designated seasons put outs, it seems monster players on my team are hindered, because of terrible players on other teams (to level the playing field).

Random may simply be the answer. Sadly not realistic though.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Samueltbaum

I wish a Dev would join in as well. But, that said, I simply gather there is some setting I can adjust to stop having an team of monsters get destroyed by the worst team in the league. I'd rather stick with 24, and see what setting I need to adjust to make 24 game play similar to 21. It may not be possible, and the Dev's may say that they are the same. If that happened, I would greatly be confused. That's all I'm looking for. I know I can play 21 again and accomplish everything I want to. I already know I love my 21 wife, I'm trying to have a 24 wife with cool new features as well. hahaha.

Two wives are illegal but with polyamory you can have a wife and as many GFs as you want. Assuming your wedding vows included "forsaking all others except as otherwise agreed.

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Brad K

What features do you like about 24 that previous versions don't have?

I only caught the balancing the league when I started the Monster team quest. Everything else I was very pleased with.

I would've bought 25 instead of 24 had a realized in the moment that 25 was coming out in a couple months.

I like the

1. Crisp cleaner look all pages, along with actually playing the game
2. Staff roles page, including staff cohesion
3. Addition of base coaches and ability to teach OF, IF, R, C
4. 15 year contracts
5. giving $$$ to community to for charity/funraisers/ (this may have happened in 21 as well I don't recall it though.

Overall I am really pleased with the game, only major thing is how my monster team puts up less numbers, and loses to terrible to teams that wouldn't have happened in OOTP 21.

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Two wives are illegal but with polyamory you can have a wife and as many GFs as you want. Assuming your wedding vows included "forsaking all others except as otherwise agreed.

I simply was referencing a previous post about the two wives. hahaha.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Samueltbaum

I simply was referencing a previous post about the two wives. hahaha.

A dozen or so years ago I worked with a man who had two girlfriends. One of the customers picked up this might be the case and asked me about it.

Does he really have two GFs?

Yes.

Do they.... know about each other?

Of course. They all live together.

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Brad K

A dozen or so years ago I worked with a man who had two girlfriends. One of the customers picked up this might be the case and asked me about it.

Does he really have two GFs?

Yes.

Do they.... know about each other?

Of course. They all live together.

I see nothing wrong with it personally if all parties are happy with it. Wouldn't do it myself as I enjoy the bond that two people can have with one another. Many would argue differently, but we are all just animals with needs of animals. Food, water, air, sleep, reproduce.

Elk are one of my favorite animals. Come mating season (rut), one bull has potentially 40+ wives. I think largest harem I saw was 45. now offseason herds could be in the hundreds, but that is very different than a harem.

[NoOne]

defintiely have to adjust for statistical differences in each league... in some cases if offense drops too low you start getting a lot less stratification in player talents and outcomes.

highly rated doesn't mean equivalent. if HR are big in your league, that makes power for batters more important than a league with fewer HR.

not all 80/80 SP are truly great pitchers. It may average it out all together as far as how incremental results are computated, but pitch selection will impact things like BABIP and other statistics. There is flavor there...

same with RP.. you can find numerous low 70s overall RP that consistenly put up better numbers than the 80 rp.. often you can only see this in hindsight, but seems to be correlated to pitch selection.

i don't like playes that are rated really well, cost a lot, and hav a major hole in their game. Not paying a batter top dollor if their splits are horrid or if they can't pitch against righties effectively.

I do think there's something else hidden that can impact just how much a players squeezes out of their talent. some guys just seem snakebit for some reason - not just one or two years but entire careers of underperformance (easier to see with batters)

I've seen a 72/80 RP be a dominant closer for 10 straight years - 90% or better conversion rate and low ERA relative to league RP.. that's unlikely luck. He had 1 really dominant pitch, if i recall.. one of the pitches that works well against both righties and lefties. I didn't use him as a closer initially due to his ratings, but after a few seasons, the numbers couldn't be ignored. What i expected to be a stop gap MR ended up being one of my best CL ever based on conversion rate, era, consistency.

so, can't just go by ratings.. though it obviously strongly correlates.. what constitutes the greater pitchers is more about the details than the overall rating, in my experience.

ltm's will impact what a better player is in your league vs another. Different weights to the ratings based on the typical range of outcomes. maybe, movement is more important i a 5000hr league than a 3000 hr league? that type of thing will shift. someone who plays a deadball-like statistical environment probably has drastically different ideas than i do about what makes a great batter or pitcher.

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by NoOne

defintiely have to adjust for statistical differences in each league... in some cases if offense drops too low you start getting a lot less stratification in player talents and outcomes.

highly rated doesn't mean equivalent. if HR are big in your league, that makes power for batters more important than a league with fewer HR.

not all 80/80 SP are truly great pitchers. It may average it out all together as far as how incremental results are computated, but pitch selection will impact things like BABIP and other statistics. There is flavor there...

same with RP.. you can find numerous low 70s overall RP that consistenly put up better numbers than the 80 rp.. often you can only see this in hindsight, but seems to be correlated to pitch selection.

i don't like playes that are rated really well, cost a lot, and hav a major hole in their game. Not paying a batter top dollor if their splits are horrid or if they can't pitch against righties effectively.

I do think there's something else hidden that can impact just how much a players squeezes out of their talent. some guys just seem snakebit for some reason - not just one or two years but entire careers of underperformance (easier to see with batters)

I've seen a 72/80 RP be a dominant closer for 10 straight years - 90% or better conversion rate and low ERA relative to league RP.. that's unlikely luck. He had 1 really dominant pitch, if i recall.. one of the pitches that works well against both righties and lefties. I didn't use him as a closer initially due to his ratings, but after a few seasons, the numbers couldn't be ignored. What i expected to be a stop gap MR ended up being one of my best CL ever based on conversion rate, era, consistency.

so, can't just go by ratings.. though it obviously strongly correlates.. what constitutes the greater pitchers is more about the details than the overall rating, in my experience.

ltm's will impact what a better player is in your league vs another. Different weights to the ratings based on the typical range of outcomes. maybe, movement is more important i a 5000hr league than a 3000 hr league? that type of thing will shift. someone who plays a deadball-like statistical environment probably has drastically different ideas than i do about what makes a great batter or pitcher.

Thanks for the post!

I've learned about modifiers, it has increased my offensive stats, but it does for every other team as well, so me teams still lose to terrible teams regularly. That said, OOTP 21 and 24 could have the same exact league wide averages, and in 21 my team wins 132 games, but 24 my team wins 111 with lower stats, but a better overall team.

Initially I focused more on offense, but then was helped by these great people on here to learn about modifiers. After that it became that engine allows much weaker teams destroy my monsters regularly in 24, whereas that rarely happened in 21. I may still get shut out 2 out of three games in 21, but its against great teams that win 95+ games, not 50 win teams, with players my AAA team is better than.

SP was never the issue at all. Its a long thread, and you may not have caught it. But OOTP 21 and OOTP 24 have roughly the same statistical numbers as a team and individual players. Both versions my SP's almost always hover from 2.0-3.5 ERA, and backend of bullpen 1.0-3.0, every season. One of my SP's may give up 8 runs to that minor league junk team i referenced, but then shut out the best offensive teams in the league three straight games to bring their era back down.

Also, when I played the game just regular, not obtaining the best of the best, I saw no issue with this. My team still ended up becoming great. This theory that the OOTP has some element to level the playing field didn't arise until I started playing around with the game.

realistically it would be very difficult to construct a team full of the best of the best players at each position. I'm not sure it has ever been done. Maybe a team with 3-4 of the best, but not 1-9. That said, if the team did get put together it would wreck havoc on the league, regardless of what year they are playing. That team would absolutely destroy other teams consistently, not get shut out by the worst teams, every season.

I enjoy great players, and don't cost a crazy ton of $$$ if you sign them to a 15 year contract as low as 2.5 Million a year. I've had hall of famers on my team that never made more than $15 million (stats decreased some after the 15 year contract was up).

I understand that 80+ players can underperform. That said, it didn't happen for me in 21, nearly as frequently. If they underperformed I'd simply trade them out for the new best player at position who hit .320/.400/.550 before joining my team consistently, then hit .260/.340/.450 once they joined my team. This isn't a single time thing. It happens regularly.

[Rain King]

Is Auto-Calc checked in your OOTP 21 game?

I do not believe that used to be enabled by default.

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Rain King

Is Auto-Calc checked in your OOTP 21 game?

I do not believe that used to be enabled by default.

I don't believe I every played around with these settings prior to the beginning of this post. Auto calc in 24 is I think in the same spot for 24, if this is it it is worded differently. Already tried both Auto-Calc and not Auto Calc after previous post.

If this is not Auto-calc, than I have no idea. Didn't want to mess with any setting on 21 since the game doesn't present the theory I had for 24. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Thanks for post.

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Samueltbaum

I only caught the balancing the league when I started the Monster team quest. Everything else I was very pleased with.

I would've bought 25 instead of 24 had a realized in the moment that 25 was coming out in a couple months.

I like the

1. Crisp cleaner look all pages, along with actually playing the game
2. Staff roles page, including staff cohesion
3. Addition of base coaches and ability to teach OF, IF, R, C
4. 15 year contracts
5. giving $$$ to community to for charity/funraisers/ (this may have happened in 21 as well I don't recall it though.

Overall I am really pleased with the game, only major thing is how my monster team puts up less numbers, and loses to terrible to teams that wouldn't have happened in OOTP 21.

I enjoy
6. The new trade deadline feature.
7. Enjoy how many more players can be added to a trade proposal. I think 21 verson maxed at 5. 24 have more.