2022 Seattle Mariners

[Marinersfan51]

Originally Posted by monkeyman576

I would give Lewis and Kelenic for Ohtani.

The chance of the Angels going for that is slightly less than zero. That might be the start of a Bryan Reynolds package, but I'm skeptical that would even interest the Pirates.

Lewis is damaged goods at this point. He hasn't only played 7 innings in the field this year (back in May) and there are serious questions if he can ever even play an OF corner regularly again, let alone CF. The injury concerns are very real.

[monkeyman576]

I don't know, there is some public pressure to allow Trout to play for a winning team after a decade on the Angels. Ohtani is arbitration eligible after this year and would likely win any arbitration case and probably wants to play for a winner as well. They might prefer not to trade within their division but if we gave the best offer idk.

[Marinersfan51]

Maybe it's just the pessimist in me, but I can't see M's ownership being willing to take Trout's contract. He's getting paid 1/3 of the M's entire 2022 payroll annually for the next 6 years.

As for Ohtani, if he does hit the market there are a lot of teams with a lot more assets to trade than the M's. The Dodgers just seem too obvious especially since they would be in prime position to extend him.

[monkeyman576]

Soto is officially available he would look great in a Mariners uniform next to Rodriguez.

[monkeyman576]

The draft starts in 5 hours. The Mariners go for their 14th straight win in 10 minutes!

[Mariner and Giants Fan]

Originally Posted by monkeyman576

The draft starts in 5 hours. The Mariners go for their 14th straight win in 10 minutes!

What have you seen in the prior 20 years, heck the prior 44 years that tells you this is the year? I am a doubting Thomas until they clinch a playoff spot. I have zero confidence in their manager, Mr. Servais as he has won nothing as a manager and shown me nothing in his 7 years as their skipper. I like Jerry Dipoto but the same goes for him. They still have allot to prove and while I am loving this hot streak it is far too early to say the streak (20 years no playoffs) is over. I think what they do at the trade deadline will show us fans how serious they are about winning this year. But still Go Ms!!

[monkeyman576]

Originally Posted by Mariner and Giants Fan

What have you seen in the prior 20 years, heck the prior 44 years that tells you this is the year? I am a doubting Thomas until they clinch a playoff spot. I have zero confidence in their manager, Mr. Servais as he has won nothing as a manager and shown me nothing in his 7 years as their skipper. I like Jerry Dipoto but the same goes for him. They still have allot to prove and while I am loving this hot streak it is far too early to say the streak (20 years no playoffs) is over. I think what they do at the trade deadline will show us fans how serious they are about winning this year. But still Go Ms!!

I'm not saying "this is the year", the Astros and Yankees are probably better than the M's at this point. Getting Soto could put them in the conversation to be right there with them I think. But even if this isn't "the year" we are in win now mode and we have cash to spend compared to other teams.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Mariner and Giants Fan

What have you seen in the prior 20 years, heck the prior 44 years that tells you this is the year? I am a doubting Thomas until they clinch a playoff spot. I have zero confidence in their manager, Mr. Servais as he has won nothing as a manager and shown me nothing in his 7 years as their skipper. I like Jerry Dipoto but the same goes for him. They still have allot to prove and while I am loving this hot streak it is far too early to say the streak (20 years no playoffs) is over. I think what they do at the trade deadline will show us fans how serious they are about winning this year. But still Go Ms!!

Jesus, give it a rest. I hate, hate, hate this aspect of Seattle sports "fans". If you get all doom and gloom and then the team is bad, that won't make you feel any better. What will happen is that if the team keeps winning and you keep naysaying and whining about when they're going to blow it next, you'll never experience the joy of them reaching whatever level it is that they reach.

I feel like this only occurs with Seattle fans too. I don't really see Lions fans being like "no, scorew this 3 game winning streak, we aren't good enough and will never be good enough". Just... go root for someone else if this is going to be your attitude.

[Mariner and Giants Fan]

Originally Posted by monkeyman576

I'm not saying "this is the year", the Astros and Yankees are probably better than the M's at this point. Getting Soto could put them in the conversation to be right there with them I think. But even if this isn't "the year" we are in win now mode and we have cash to spend compared to other teams.

To really compete don't you believe that the Mariners need to increase their salary budget to the $180M mark? I did this in OOTP23 and then made a trade for Soto after they missed the playoffs again this year. Would Soto really want to come here? I do not believe so. He turned down $440M to be on a team that is not competitive and what would make him believe that the Mariners will be competing for World Series Rings? Maybe they offer him $600M for 10 years? Haha, that would be interesting hmm? I do not even believe that they will make Washington an offer for him. Have we learned nothing form how the Angels do business?

[monkeyman576]

Originally Posted by Mariner and Giants Fan

To really compete don't you believe that the Mariners need to increase their salary budget to the $180M mark? I did this in OOTP23 and then made a trade for Soto after they missed the playoffs again this year. Would Soto really want to come here? I do not believe so. He turned down $440M to be on a team that is not competitive and what would make him believe that the Mariners will be competing for World Series Rings? Maybe they offer him $600M for 10 years? Haha, that would be interesting hmm? I do not even believe that they will make Washington an offer for him. Have we learned nothing form how the Angels do business?

Well, it's one thing not to want to play for a cellar dwellar, but that doesn't mean every player wants to play for the Yankees or Dodgers either.

[jumpSeat]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

If you get all doom and gloom and then the team is bad, that won't make you feel any better. What will happen is that if the team keeps winning and you keep naysaying and whining about when they're going to blow it next, you'll never experience the joy of them reaching whatever level it is that they reach.

Quite right. Jeez Syd, you're actually quite the philosopher at heart.

For those who may not be aware, the universe isn't so easily fooled. You largely get back whatever it is you put out. So if you spend most of your time throwing shade on your favorite team, don't expect them to bask in the sun anytime soon.

[Marinersfan51]

I refuse to really believe in the M's finally making the playoffs until they've clinched that playoff berth. There have been too many close calls for me to really get my hopes up. That said any team that is better than average can win it all. That is the great thing about baseball, if you can make the playoffs, you can win the world series. This is a team that has a chance to make the playoffs and therefore has a chance to win the world series.

As for Soto, I doubt the M's will be the highest bidder, but it sure would be nice to add him to the lineup. The reaction to him turning down a below market extension has been ridiculous. He didn't want to sign a 15 year contract as a 23 year old, that is reasonable since there is little reason to believe his value will drop significantly in the next couple years. Just because he wants to test the market doesn't mean his eventual contract will be impossible to match. He could sign for 12/400 ($25M less than Trout's deal) as a free agent in 2 years and come out ahead of the offer the Nats made.

[Mariner and Giants Fan]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Jesus, give it a rest. I hate, hate, hate this aspect of Seattle sports "fans". If you get all doom and gloom and then the team is bad, that won't make you feel any better. What will happen is that if the team keeps winning and you keep naysaying and whining about when they're going to blow it next, you'll never experience the joy of them reaching whatever level it is that they reach.

I feel like this only occurs with Seattle fans too. I don't really see Lions fans being like "no, scorew this 3 game winning streak, we aren't good enough and will never be good enough". Just... go root for someone else if this is going to be your attitude.

Give what a rest? You act like you know me, you don't. I have been a Mariner's fan since 1977, their first year. I have cheered for them (mostly when Sweet Lou was the manager) and booed for them (the other 35 years ). I have really enjoyed this hot streak over the past 25 games (22-3) and am hoping that they can finally break this playoff drought. That being said I will still doubt them making the playoffs until they clinch the spot. I have had my heart broken by them so many many times since 1977. 2001 was an awesome year and so much fun around here, until the Yankees series and the M's broke our hearts.

I do doubt that the duo of Dipoto/Servais (along with upper management) will ever produce a winning team based on what I have seen these past 7 years, but I would love to be proven wrong. Last year I had so much fun cheering my other favorite team the Giants (since 1966 as my Dad was a giants fan). The Giants won 107 games the most in the MLB but lost to the hated Dodgers. Was I upset? Yes, but I also expected it due to how strong the Dodgers are/were. But I still had fun. My father raised me as a sports fan to expect the worst but hope for the best so it is in my DNA. Oh and I am originally from the East Coast so Sports Hating is also in my DNA.

I am a passionate Baseball fan and I will cheer as loud as I boo. Are you one of those fans that is not fanatical and dislikes booing?

Perhaps you should think on how someone you have never met could have such a large impact on you...just saying.

[monkeyman576]

Even if we don’t get Soto if we can get another team to overpay for him that’s a moral victory too.

[Marinersfan51]

Originally Posted by Mariner and Giants Fan

I do doubt that the duo of Dipoto/Servais (along with upper management) will ever produce a winning team based on what I have seen these past 7 years, but I would love to be proven wrong.

Depending on how you define a winning team, the M's have had winning records in 3/6 full seasons under Dipoto/Servais and are on pace for a 4th. Even though their two best seasons were with negative run differentials, I don't think we really have reason to believe that Dipoto/Servais are the issue, they have clearly been under ownership instructions to gradually reduce payroll. The M's had a top 15 payroll their first 3 years due to contracts already on the books (Cano, Seager, Felix, Cruz) that quietly dropped to bottom 5 in the league. The fact that they've managed to avoid being an embarrassment at any point in that the way the A's or Reds have been recently is a credit to Dipoto/Servais.

It remains to be seen if ownership will be willing to actually open the checkbook now that there is a young core and the chance to build an actual contender. I am skeptical, but I don't think it is really going to matter too much who the GM and manager are if ownership just isn't interested in trying to win.

[monkeyman576]

Originally Posted by Marinersfan51

Depending on how you define a winning team, the M's have had winning records in 3/6 full seasons under Dipoto/Servais and are on pace for a 4th. Even though their two best seasons were with negative run differentials, I don't think we really have reason to believe that Dipoto/Servais are the issue, they have clearly been under ownership instructions to gradually reduce payroll. The M's had a top 15 payroll their first 3 years due to contracts already on the books (Cano, Seager, Felix, Cruz) that quietly dropped to bottom 5 in the league. The fact that they've managed to avoid being an embarrassment at any point in that the way the A's or Reds have been recently is a credit to Dipoto/Servais.

It remains to be seen if ownership will be willing to actually open the checkbook now that there is a young core and the chance to build an actual contender. I am skeptical, but I don't think it is really going to matter too much who the GM and manager are if ownership just isn't interested in trying to win.

I think there has been a mandate to reduce payroll WHILE we are in rebuilding mode. That doesn't mean they aren't going to be willing to spend if we have a real chance to make the playoffs(which is now). Aside from that there is a difference between a good large contract and a bad large contract(Cano/Felix).

[Marinersfan51]

We just don't know at this point if ownership is willing to spend for a winner. This is the first time under this ownership group the team has been in a position to really compete and loosen the purse strings. After bottoming out in 2021, payroll has gone up this year, but it remains to be seen if they are comfortable getting into the top 10 in payroll again.

I guess I just kinda miss the Nintendo ownership who had no qualms running a top half payroll even when the team was bad. They ran the team more like fans than a business since it was a relatively small part of their portfolio.

[dsvitak]

I read an ESPN article that stated the Cardinals are the most likely landing spot for Soto, due to their amazing farm system.

Probably take Tyler O'Neill, or Carlson, plus Nolan Gorman and a good pitcher to get it done.

But..I don't want Soto on the Cards. Even at age 24, his dWar for his career is -3.3. The Cards have Gold Gloves in LF and CF...and Dylan Carlson is JUST as good. This would be a huge step backward.

Soto, IMHO, does not have the right frame of mind to fit in with The Cardinal Way. This is understated professionalism. Arenado, Goldschmidt, Wainwright, Molina, Pujols, ALL are willing to check their ego at the door. Soto does not appear to have the same mindset.

[monkeyman576]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

I read an ESPN article that stated the Cardinals are the most likely landing spot for Soto, due to their amazing farm system.

Probably take Tyler O'Neill, or Carlson, plus Nolan Gorman and a good pitcher to get it done.

But..I don't want Soto on the Cards. Even at age 24, his dWar for his career is -3.3. The Cards have Gold Gloves in LF and CF...and Dylan Carlson is JUST as good. This would be a huge step backward.

Soto, IMHO, does not have the right frame of mind to fit in with The Cardinal Way. This is understated professionalism. Arenado, Goldschmidt, Wainwright, Molina, Pujols, ALL are willing to check their ego at the door. Soto does not appear to have the same mindset.

Yeah Mariners ownership seems to want to encourage players to show their personalties more. Not necessarily bad just a different mindset.

[Marinersfan51]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

I read an ESPN article that stated the Cardinals are the most likely landing spot for Soto, due to their amazing farm system.

Probably take Tyler O'Neill, or Carlson, plus Nolan Gorman and a good pitcher to get it done.

But..I don't want Soto on the Cards. Even at age 24, his dWar for his career is -3.3. The Cards have Gold Gloves in LF and CF...and Dylan Carlson is JUST as good. This would be a huge step backward.

Soto, IMHO, does not have the right frame of mind to fit in with The Cardinal Way. This is understated professionalism. Arenado, Goldschmidt, Wainwright, Molina, Pujols, ALL are willing to check their ego at the door. Soto does not appear to have the same mindset.

It's worth noting that Soto's negative dWAR is mostly because he plays LF. DRS (what B-ref uses for defense) has him at -11 runs defensively over his career, while FanGraphs' UZR/OAA combo has him at 1.5 runs above average. It's the positional adjustment that kills him as LF is -20 to -25 runs over his career so far. Carlson is at 5 DRS, -0.9 UZR/OAA for his career so far, so UZR/OAA actually thinks Soto is a better defender (everyone agrees that O'Neill is an excellent defender).

I might be misremembering this, but didn't Arenado have a bit of a rep as a flashy, big personality guy on the Rockies? It might just be his incredible defensive highlights are coloring my memory, but I wouldn't have thought of him as a "Cardinal Way" guy prior to his time in STL (Goldy did seem like one though).