06/08 Update: New injury-related features in OOTP 12

[james17]

Originally Posted by RandyTiger

To me, having players on the reserve roster unable work off rust from injuries doesn't make much sense, particularly when you consider the following from the manual:



Also, this one (in the playing time row):



To me, that quote implies simulated/pick-up games, since they develop as if they were putting up average minor league numbers. You cannot develop just playing catch and having batting practice. At some point, you have to test those skills to hone them, which means... simulated/pick-up games.

If they're not playing those games, that raises the question of whether someone on the reserve roster has rust when he's called up into the majors, or if he's even ready to play at that level. There's a big difference between batting practice and facing someone like Justin Verlander!

If so, then those who utilize reserve rosters are at a decided disadvantage compared to those with full minors, since the full-minor call-ups have no rust.

If not, then why can't players work off the rust on the reserve list at a slower rate than normal, particularly considering the quote from the manual?

I agree completely with this. For those of us using reserve rosters instead of minors this a fairly significant issue. I would like to see Markus address our concerns with either making it optional to incur rust on injuries or making rehab assignments possible on the reserve list.

Please, Markus?

[Dark Horse]

Originally Posted by Qwerty75

It's already been this way for several versions. What's changing now is that you have the opportunity to send a player returning from injury on a rehab assignment to get shake off rust if you have playable minor league games. If you don't have minor league games, nothing has changed.

I would assume the effect of rust is quite small, and it takes only a few games for it to go away. You may not even see any effects, as the number of games for which it takes effect is small. The player also risks re-injurying in a rehab game, I assume.

If you're concerned about how rust affects player stats across your entire universe on the aggregate, I would think it's miniscule. It isn't in effect for that long, and the balance across rusty pitchers and rusty hitters should generally even out.

In summary, you aren't losing anything with the change that has been added in the new version, and the effect of rust in the grand scheme of things is minimal.

Thanks Qwerty. You explained that quite well. If this is how this will work, i won't have a beef with it. It is still adding an extra step that i don't think was needed. And, in an online league, since it is a competitive advantage (albeit miniscule) it's not so much an option of wanting to use rehab. If my competitors are able to use it, i'll have to use it.

If we were insisting on adding rehab time, i would've preferred that, once the player was able to play, we got the option of putting the player back on the active list or leaving him on the DL to "rehab". Then maybe get a message from the player or the team doctor or a coach or whoever saying that he's ready to play. Instead of moving the player to the minors and adjusting lineups and depth charts for ten days at a time.

Coincidentally, i did have a player get injured for five weeks. He ended up missing between 30 and 40 days. When i reactivated him, i waited one day to start him. That first day he pinch hit and ended up driving in winning run with a two-run double. The next day he started and went 5 for 5. The next day he went 2 for 2 with two walks. So as you say, sometimes the rust isn't there.

[Dark Horse]

Originally Posted by Qwerty75

If they're not playing those games, that raises the question of whether someone on the reserve roster has rust when he's called up into the majors, or if he's even ready to play at that level.

Rust occurs only 1) following injuries of 2-3 weeks or more (check robc's links to confirm) and 2) at the beginning of the preseason after the offseason layoff. Additionally, I remember the discussion when this was first instituted in the game that indicated that minor leaguers didn't experience rust after the offseason layoff.

There's no reason to believe it affects players on a reserve roster unless they are placed there after coming off an injury of the given length. Players coming up to the majors from the reserve roster without injury shouldn't have any "rust."

My concern was not that players on the reserve roster get "rusty". My concern is that a player can't get the same benefits of rehab from being on a reserve roster as he would being in a minor league roster.

My contention is that players on the reserve roster are not sitting around drinking beers and eating hot dogs and not playing. They would be doing something to stay sharp. After all, in OOTP already, players develop while on reserve rosters.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by james17

I agree completely with this. For those of us using reserve rosters instead of minors this a fairly significant issue. I would like to see Markus address our concerns with either making it optional to incur rust on injuries or making rehab assignments possible on the reserve list.

Please, Markus?

Just curious, but if you don't have any minors, where exactly would you send the player for his rehab assignment?

[Dark Horse]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Just curious, but if you don't have any minors, where exactly would you send the player for his rehab assignment?

The guys on the reserve roster would have to be doing something. Like i said above, they are developing in OOTP on the reserve roster.

Since i'm not sure we have anything like a reserve roster in American sports. i would think a reserve roster would be something like high school "b" teams. Perhaps before every game, the reserves of each team play a 7 inning or 9 inning game. No stats are taken, there are no wins and losses. But it gives the players the chance to sharpen their skills and the coaches a chance to evaluate the reserves. That's just me using my imagination, but the main thing is whatever a reserve player is doing to develop should be enough for them to "rehab."

[coljesep]

Markus,

Very cool feature and I totally understand how some things are only do-able inside a sim engine but here's my question...

In MLB a player begins a rehab assignment while they are still on the DL. So lets say Albert Pujols is on the 60 day DL and he heals after 52 days...the Cardinals would send him to the minors for rehab around that 50th day when he appears to be healthy. They wouldn't wait for the 8 days to pass, and then ship him off to a rehab assignment right?

Is is possible either now or in the future to have a feature "ready for rehab" rather than A) having to wait the full 60 or 15 days or B) Having to guess when the player is healed enough to begin rehab if in fact they were able to go before the DL time expired?

Hope that makes sense!

Great job

[james17]

Originally Posted by Dark Horse

The guys on the reserve roster would have to be doing something. Like i said above, they are developing in OOTP on the reserve roster.

Since i'm not sure we have anything like a reserve roster in American sports. i would think a reserve roster would be something like high school "b" teams. Perhaps before every game, the reserves of each team play a 7 inning or 9 inning game. No stats are taken, there are no wins and losses. But it gives the players the chance to sharpen their skills and the coaches a chance to evaluate the reserves. That's just me using my imagination, but the main thing is whatever a reserve player is doing to develop should be enough for them to "rehab."

Agree with your conception of how it works. And in that case, rust recovery and rehab would be possible.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Dark Horse

The guys on the reserve roster would have to be doing something. Like i said above, they are developing in OOTP on the reserve roster.

Since i'm not sure we have anything like a reserve roster in American sports. i would think a reserve roster would be something like high school "b" teams. Perhaps before every game, the reserves of each team play a 7 inning or 9 inning game. No stats are taken, there are no wins and losses. But it gives the players the chance to sharpen their skills and the coaches a chance to evaluate the reserves. That's just me using my imagination, but the main thing is whatever a reserve player is doing to develop should be enough for them to "rehab."

That's how I imagine it pretty much.

[swampdragon]

Ryan Zimmerman has been out quite a while. His rehab assignment will be 3 days starting tomorrow. The Nationals expect to activate him on Tuesday.

[mgom27]

Is that in your Game or Real Life?

[Syd Thrift]

It's in P.Rico.

[hfield007]

almost a week away hopefully seeing some road to release?

[GlennN]

Originally Posted by Dark Horse

The guys on the reserve roster would have to be doing something. Like i said above, they are developing in OOTP on the reserve roster.

Since i'm not sure we have anything like a reserve roster in American sports. i would think a reserve roster would be something like high school "b" teams. Perhaps before every game, the reserves of each team play a 7 inning or 9 inning game. No stats are taken, there are no wins and losses. But it gives the players the chance to sharpen their skills and the coaches a chance to evaluate the reserves. That's just me using my imagination, but the main thing is whatever a reserve player is doing to develop should be enough for them to "rehab."

I think the closest analogy is the practice squad in the NFL.

[DCHepler25]

Originally Posted by GlennN

I think the closest analogy is the practice squad in the NFL.

My exact thought - you beat me to it!

[RandyTiger]

Originally Posted by hfield007

almost a week away hopefully seeing some road to release?

Seriously doubt it - if there were going to be one, it would have begun by now. Whomever is in charge of promotions (the marketing guy?) appears to not had enough time to whip something together.

Pity, I would have liked to see one too, if only to whet my appetite.

Perhaps for the next release, Markus/Andreas can find a volunteer who will assume responsibility for RtR.

[statfreak]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

1) For some injuries, the exact type/ duration is not immediately revealed. Basically, the diagnosis may take up to 4-5 days for severe injuries. Once the diagnosis is revealed, a league news article (for good players) and a manager email will be sent.

This is a great addition, IMO. Will players that suffer this type of injury be able to be put on the DL even before the diagnosis comes in? Most online league sim between 7 and 15 days at a time. If an injury like this occurs on the final day of the sim, most GMs would want to place the player on the DL immediately rather than play the next sim a player short. Also, can we transfer players from the 15 to 60 day DL? I don't think it is possible in OOTP 11.

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

2) This only makes sense if we have retroactive DL assignments, so I added this as well. The game stores the date of an injury, and if the date is in the past of the DL assignment, the length of the DL stay will be reduced by the time difference. So when you place a player on the 15-day DL who was injured 3 days ago, he just has to spend 12 days on the DL.

Does this only apply to 'Out' players or any player with an injury? If someone is injured, but able to play at 75%, and is subsequently put on the DL, is it retroactive? What if the player played a game between the injury and going on the DL? Is it still retroactive to the date of injury or last game played (it should be last game played)?

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

3) While I was in good mood, I also added rehab assignments to the minor leagues. You can send a player to the minors (right-click menu -> transactions submenu) directly from the DL if the DL time has ended. Position players may stay 20 days in the minors and pitchers 30 days. A minor league option is not used in this case. The game prompts you to activate/DFA the player again if the rehab assignment time has elapsed. By the way, this is not a cosmetic feature, players do have a 'rust' rating after injuries (this influences performance & injury risk), and by playing in the minors the player gets back into shape and the rust gets reduced/removed entirely.

A couple of suggestions / thoughts.

1) allow the 20/30 day limits to be adjusted.
2) it would be nice to have an optional feature that updates the player's status to "ready for rehab assignment" after his injury has "healed" sufficiently for him to begin. Of course here is where keeping the player on the DL during the rehab assignment would be useful. The player could begin the assignment with DL days remaining.
3) add an optional feature that changes the player's status to a % of rust while on assignment. So, when a player starts a rehab assignment he would show 78% and that would go up to either a set % (100, 90, etc..) when it would show 'Ready' or go back to the normal status for a healthy player.

Thanks for continuing to improve the game.

[GrantDawg]

Such a great addition, Marcus. Cheers!

As for the other comments, I just wanted to point out that Marcus said you may put a player on a 20/30 day rehab assignment. Not must, nor that it will take that long to remove rust. Rehab assignments are pretty common (just about every Braves player out more than 15 days takes one. Heyward is on one right now, McLouth is about to be, and any pitcher coming back usually makes 2-3 starts in the minors before coming back). This was a feature sorely missing, and I am so happy it is being added.

[statfreak]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Such a great addition, Marcus. Cheers!

As for the other comments, I just wanted to point out that Marcus said you may put a player on a 20/30 day rehab assignment. Not must, nor that it will take that long to remove rust. Rehab assignments are pretty common (just about every Braves player out more than 15 days takes one. Heyward is on one right now, McLouth is about to be, and any pitcher coming back usually makes 2-3 starts in the minors before coming back). This was a feature sorely missing, and I am so happy it is being added.

OT: the man's name is MarKus. I don't know why I let it bother me so much, but for the love of all that is Holy, would you people please start spelling his name correctly (or korrectly if you prefer ).

Thank you.

[eriqjaffe]

Originally Posted by statfreak

korrektly

Fixed that for you.

[jaxmagicman]

We can turn off rust right? In online leagues this might be something hard to control.