The 2023 NFL Season Thread

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Very good.


Now let's add the potential 6 points Detroit passed on to the final score. What do we have now class?

It could have just as easily been 45-34, Lions. Or 31-10, Lions. Or 27-24, Niners. There was so much more to that game than two plays. The Lions failure on those two plays did not guarantee SF getting touchdowns. Momentum shifts are not a guarantee that one team will win and one will lose. SF came out of halftime a different team. The momentum shift helped, sure, but the Lions couldn't adjust and the Lions simply fell on their faces in all facets of their game. I mean, fumbling the ball on their second drive of the second half sure didn't help Detroit.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

It could have just as easily been 45-34, Lions. Or 31-10, Lions. Or 27-24, Niners. There was so much more to that game than two plays. The Lions failure on those two plays did not guarantee SF getting touchdowns. Momentum shifts are not a guarantee that one team will win and one will lose. SF came out of halftime a different team. The momentum shift helped, sure, but the Lions couldn't adjust and the Lions simply fell on their faces in all facets of their game. I mean, fumbling the ball on their second drive of the second half sure didn't help Detroit.

Man you are good at avoiding conclusions you don't want to face.

Like my paranoid ex.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

Touchdowns are worth 6 points. Extra points are worth 1. 7 is greater than 3.

And zero is less than 7.

The first FG they passed on would have put them up three scores, in the second half of a conference championship game on the road. Sorry, you don't pass those chances up. NEVER, no matter how you play in the regular season. I like Campbell but he cheated himself, his team, veteran Lions like Sanders that were attending the game, and every Lions fan.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Very good.


Now let's add the potential 6 points Detroit passed on to the final score. What do we have now class?

Giving up points in the first half is ludicrous.

Dan Campbell, in all the games I saw Detroit play this year, did some pretty ignorant stuff.

I am ok with aggressive. The stat guys will tell you that going for it on 4th down can be a great call.

But...and this is significant...taking points off the board isn't a good look for the team. Doing it twice is nuts, especially in a close game.

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Man you are good at avoiding conclusions you don't want to face.

Like my paranoid ex.

What that they failed to score points on those two drives? That's correct they did. They also failed to score points on two drives that ended in a fumble and a punt, respectively. While at the same time allowing SF to score on 5 consecutive drives. Shut the Niners down on one of two of those drives or score on one or two of their other drives and none of Detroit's two failed fourth down matter. Detroit lost because of lots of failed plays. Those two failed fourth down attempts were just two among many.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

Those two failed fourth down attempts were just two among many.

You are over trivializing those moments & you know it.

[monkeyman576]

Lions choked and that's it.

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

You are over trivializing those moments & you know it.

Not in the least. The Lions had a lot of bad plays in the second half that went towards preventing them from scoring points.

[pilight]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

Giving up points in the first half is ludicrous.

A 46 yarder, on the road, outdoors, with Badgley ain't exactly a gimme. There's a good chance the Lions would have come up empty anyway.

[thehef]

The Niners significantly outplayed the Lions in the 2nd half... The Lions not converting on 4th down nor taking the three points twice certainly contributed to the 49ers 2nd half dominance... The Lions' dropped passes and a lost fumble late in the 3rd quarter also contributed - significantly - to the Lions' loss...

The decisions to go for it instead of taking the points would've likely been praised - or at least not 2nd-guessed - had they worked out. *I* think (and thought at the time) Campbell should've taken the 3 pts at least one of those times. But I can't really criticize him for coaching the same way in the NFC title game that he did during the regular season... If Campbell goes for the FG both times and the Niners still take the game (a real possibility; what if a FG is missed?), he's absolutely torched for coaching conservatively & against his philosophy... Bottom line is those two decisions were roughly 50/50 calls and they didn't work out...

Much to my disappointment, as I was rooting for the Lions & Goff... That said, I was very happy to see Purdy play well & get the win. IMO he's been unfairly criticized as merely a game manager, etc. While he may not be flashy (how far did that get Lamar?) nor quite elite, I think he's very good and I'd take him over all but a short list of other NFL QB's...

The other game was fun. While I only tepidly root for the Chiefs, I am definitely not a Ravens/Jackson fan. Seeing Lamar channel his inner Tua in key moments was delightful!

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

Touchdowns are worth 6 points. Extra points are worth 1. 7 is greater than 3.

Yes, 7 is better than 3. But when you are already up 24-10, making it 27-10 gives you a 3 score lead instead of a 2 score lead. Getting 7 there instead of 3 gives you a 3 score lead instead of a 3 score lead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzogkX_ZSI4

I knew this video was coming out the second they went for it and failed. Because it was a dumb decision the second he made it.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

And to ignore the fact one play can ignite a comeback is just as short sighted. No one claims the Lions were doomed on one play. But one play lit the flame. What happened afterward was merely fuel for a bigger dumpster fire.

Couldn't have said it better myself. This is all it takes.

[pilight]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

Yes, 7 is better than 3. But when you are already up 24-10, making it 27-10 gives you a 3 score lead instead of a 2 score lead. Getting 7 there instead of 3 gives you a 3 score lead instead of a 3 score lead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzogkX_ZSI4

I knew this video was coming out the second they went for it and failed. Because it was a dumb decision the second he made it.

The three points isn't a given. Badgley hasn't hit a FG outdoors from that distance in years.

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

Yes, 7 is better than 3. But when you are already up 24-10, making it 27-10 gives you a 3 score lead instead of a 2 score lead. Getting 7 there instead of 3 gives you a 3 score lead instead of a 3 score lead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzogkX_ZSI4

I knew this video was coming out the second they went for it and failed. Because it was a dumb decision the second he made it.

31-10 is a different up three scores than 27-10. The first requires three touchdowns, the second only two touchdowns and a field goal.

Having said that, I get why people thought they should have gone for 3 on both of those 4th downs. I wished they would have on the second one.

But, the discussion is about whether or not those two failed fourth and goes cost Detroit the game. I don't think those two plays cost them the game. I think those were two of many plays that cost them the game. Detroit was bad in all facets of the game in the second half. That's what cost them the game.

[Amazin69]

A.J. Liebling, boxing writer and noted baseball non-fan, on San Franciscans' endless dissection and griping about the final inning of the 1962 World Series:

"It may be noted that the Yankees are the least popular of all baseball clubs, because they win. Which leaves nothing to go 'If…' about."

That said, I see that Steve "UrinatingTree" Linkowski has an anti-Campbell vid up, which is pretty certain to be a lot of fun, if nothing else.

[Syd Thrift]

I'm generally a big fan of "never kick". Probably they should have taken the points on the second drive. The first, I'm 100% behind going for it and frankly I think that maybe if your ex-wife agrees with me, perhaps you should have listened to her more. Cephasjames is right here; there were far, far more opportunities to win that game than 2 FG attempts. Where was the Lions' defense in the entire second half? If they stopped just one more drive than they did, the Lions probably would have won.

All in all, give me a team that scores 31 points in a game, I'm almost never going to tell you they lost because of the offense.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

31-10 is a different up three scores than 27-10. The first requires three touchdowns, the second only two touchdowns and a field goal.

Look at the consequences instead. The consequences of settling for a FG is as you describe. Up by 17 instead of 21. But still a 3 score lead. The consequences of failing the 4th down play is worse. Up by 2 scores. Same as if he missed the FG.

Originally Posted by cephasjames;5070942
Having said that, I get why people thought they should have gone for 3 on both of those 4th downs. I wished they would have on the second one.

But, the discussion is about whether or not those two failed fourth and goes cost Detroit the game. I don't think those two plays cost them the game. I think those were two of many plays that cost them the game. [B

Detroit was bad in all facets of the game in the second half. That's what cost them the game[/B].

All began after the failed 4th down play. They were fine up until that point. Sometimes the pressure can invite misfortune.

[pilight]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

The consequences of failing the 4th down play is worse. Up by 2 scores. Same as if he missed the FG.

Missing the FG is worse since the ball is turned over at the point of the kick, eight yards behind the line of scrimmage

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by pilight

Missing the FG is worse since the ball is turned over at the point of the kick, eight yards behind the line of scrimmage

Yeah I know. But what was it, a 45 or 46 yard FG? But I concede that point.

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I'm generally a big fan of "never kick". Probably they should have taken the points on the second drive. The first, I'm 100% behind going for it and frankly I think that maybe if your ex-wife agrees with me, perhaps you should have listened to her more. Cephasjames is right here; there were far, far more opportunities to win that game than 2 FG attempts. Where was the Lions' defense in the entire second half? If they stopped just one more drive than they did, the Lions probably would have won.

All in all, give me a team that scores 31 points in a game, I'm almost never going to tell you they lost because of the offense.

We can't know what would have happened. But IMO if he hits that FG the Lions win that game. All that other crap never happens. Because the momentum never shifts. You just told the 49ers that halfway through the 3rd they've gained no ground. But instead they gave them life. And when it rains it pours.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

Yeah I know. But what was it, a 45 or 46 yard FG? But I concede that point.



We can't know what would have happened. But IMO if he hits that FG the Lions win that game. All that other crap never happens. Because the momentum never shifts. You just told the 49ers that halfway through the 3rd they've gained no ground. But instead they gave them life. And when it rains it pours.

That’s nice. Here’s a fun stat: the Lions were 14-20 on 4th and 2 situations during Campbell’s tenure. Their kicker was 11-17 from that range. Going for it was actually the higher percentage choice. But sure, momentum, magic beans, vampires and pixies.