My letter to Markus and Company

[Malleus Dei]

Originally posted by Dale And Eli's Dad
He never asked Malleus about how to run his business

Actually he HAS asked for my opinions about that before.

[Jason]

Originally posted by Malleus Dei
Actually he HAS asked for my opinions about that before.

In regards to ITP and it's potential impact on OOTP 6?

[Malleus Dei]

Originally posted by Dale And Eli's Dad
What good does making a post about ITP screwing up OOTP accomplish?

That wasn't what the post was about. That was just one part of the post, and it was mentioned to point out to Markus and Company just why they need to keep focused purely on OOTP in the future. I'm sorry that it wasn't easier for you to understand, but that's your own fault.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally posted by Dale And Eli's Dad
In regards to ITP and it's potential impact on OOTP 6?

Good try at a save, but everyone knows I was away at that time, and furthermore, that wasn't even close what you were alleging.

You got caught. You lose. ROFL.

[SoxWin]

Originally posted by Dale And Eli's Dad
I don't have a problem with posting problems. I have a problem with people starting 500 threads about the exact same thing as if they think pointing out a problem for the 500th time will make any difference.

It's almost like certain people on this board think unless something's been hammered to death on this board OOTP Developments will not pay any attention to it.

Since v2, this has always been the case. I don't expect it to change anytime soon.

What good does making a post about ITP screwing up OOTP accomplish? Markus has already decided if it was a mistake or not. He never asked Malleus about how to run his business and as customers it's our place to give opinions about the product but it's done of our business how Markus runs his business.

As a paying customer of any business, it is your right to question their business practices. I don't shop at Wal Mart because of their detestable record of employee treatment. I won't wear Nike shoes because I refuse to support their practice of making money off the backs of sweat shop workers overseas. A stretch as a comparison admittedly, but I base where I spend my dollars on a companys reputation.

I don't want to run Markus's business for him, I don't have the knowledge. Next year however, I won't pay him dime one until I've played a demo that works to my satisfaction, that's how the real world works. The release of v6 has made me rethink my old policy of "he'll get it right eventually via patches" and change it to "once he can get all the promised features in the game, he can have my $34.95US" That's a direct result of how he runs his business, and he may be interested to know, he probably isn't, but I am allowed to voice that opinion.

Next thing we'll have are people wanting Markus to post his daily schedule so they can gripe about him not spending enough time on one particular bug in the game.

Straw man argument and quite frankly bull****. Perhaps one of the development team (who seem to be enjoying this thread without having anything substantive to say) would like to chime in.

It's not to much to ask for Markus to stop promising things and then not include them, or to include them knowing they don't work. I'm glad you're happy with that, I however, have higher expectations.

[Jason]

Originally posted by Malleus Dei
Good try at a save, but everyone knows I was away at that time, and furthermore, that wasn't even close what you were alleging.

You got caught. You lose. ROFL.

So you're saying that offered Markus advice on his business never solicited by Markus? It's a yes or no answer Mal.

[Malleus Dei]

Dale and Eli's Alleged Dad:

What ARE you trying to accomplish here besides just cheap insults? Your pathetic arguments have been refuted, not just by me but by many others, and you are doing nothing but making yourself look like a total fool.

If you are trying to take attention away from the issues raised in my open letter, then shame on you. If you are just trying to have a flamewar, shame on you twice.

It really is past time for you to STHU, newbie.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally posted by Dale And Eli's Dad
So you're saying that offered Markus advice on his business never solicited by Markus? It's a yes or no answer Mal.

ROFL, what a liar you are!

What you wrote was "he never asked Malleus about how to run his business." I pointed out that in the past he had done just that.

"Never" is forever, newbie, not just last week.

[Jason]

Originally posted by Malleus Dei
It really is past time for you to STHU, newbie.

Right after you, Mr. Know It All.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally posted by SoxWin
Straw man argument and quite frankly bull****.

A good summary of all of his posts in this thread, Sox.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally posted by Dale And Eli's Dad
Right after you, Mr. Know It All.

I was here long before you heard of OOTP, newbie, and I'll be here long after you're gone.

[SoxWin]

Originally posted by Dale And Eli's Dad
Right after you, Mr. Know It All.

I promise this will be it for me, this is a trainwreck waiting to happen.

I've been as critical of MD and his posts in the past as anyone. On this issue however, he's right. Maybe you spending the weekend with the development teams has clouded your perspective, but I fail to see how you can say Mal and a lot of other people here are way off base.

[SoxWin]

Originally posted by Malleus Dei
A good summary of all of his posts in this thread, Sox.

No need for name calling on either side man. It does nothing to further your argument and only contributes to the flames.

[PurdueBrad]

Vote here...

[Malleus Dei]

Originally posted by SoxWin
No need for name calling on either side man. It does nothing to further your argument and only contributes to the flames.

You're right, Sox, but his falsehoods and insults made me mad. Even so, I shouldn't have let myself be provoked by such idiocy. Mea culpa.

[rogmax11]

I failed to find a single thing wrong with Mals' letter, either in form or content. I too agree with every point he made, including the one concerning ITP, and was impressed with the tenor of his post: helpfully suggestive and detailed in the points of concern.

I cannot see why non-hysteric questioning or recitation of real or perceived flaws merits immediate retaliation that devolves into name-calling or lower forms of denigration, and wish it would stop. I want this damn game to be the best it can be, and believe most of us--including Mal--feel the same; I also feel that using the term "newbie" derogatorially debases the issues and thwarts our mutual aim. We can do better than that, and should.

[Le Grande Orange]

Considering that in an OT topic Dale And Eli's Dad said he thought the Moon landings were faked, I think that says an awful lot about his logical and analytical capabilities, or lack thereof. Unless he was kidding, of course, but it did not appear he was.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist throwing that nugget out there. It's one of my few hot-button issues... with schedules probably being the other.

Anyway, on to the topic at hand. While I agree with some of the criticisms raised, I also feel some of the others are somewhat unfair.

The financial co-efficent, for example. For something like this to truly work properly it would take a complete overhaul of the financial system, something that was obviously not in the plans for OOTP6. Similarly, having all the dollars vanish when financials are turned off had been commented on by Markus. He mentioned that if that were done, many of the in-game screens would have ugly gaps and spaces in them were the dollar values used to be. You can rest assured that folks would complain about that. So, it was either redesign all the necessary screens to account for the lack of dollar figure displays, or just leave them in and let folks know that in spite of them being there they mean nothing.

Which choice is the better choice when it comes to allotting time to work on the game?

On the other hand, for example, not having a manual ready in time for the game's release is really inexcusable IMO. Given that the manual exists only in digital form there is no real reason why it can't be ready in time. It's not like the finished manual has to be sent off to the printers in order to be published in time for distribution with packaged copies of the game (and the lead time needed for a printed manual can run as long as a couple of months, often meaning a game is changed after the manual has been sent out for printing).

With 7 years' experience working in the graphic arts industry, I know a little about this topic. Heck, I'd still be happy to design a nice new manual for OOTP, I think I could do a good job on it. I'd do it nearly free of charge too - maybe just throw me a free copy of OOTP and I'd probably be happy.

So, I'd say some of the comments being put forth are valid, but some others I find to be either overreactions or somewhat unfair. In any case, I think the powers-that-be are going to need to step in and make a statement on some of these issues, because a brush fire like the current one could grow, and that wouldn't be good...

[silvam14]

I guess there's no chance of Markus responding to this thread now that it has taken on a completely different look than intended

[Cowboys3356]

Does anyone know if Markus even bothers checking the boards anymore? I haven't seen him since he made one post in my thread about V6.02a making the game slower. He said he was "looking into and would keep us updated".

The problem is that Markus does not keep the OOTP community very well updated and people get upset. I think the first post in this thread was well written and explained how alot of us feel. If you enjoy the game that is great and I also enjoy the game. But like alot of people I also think there is plenty of room for improvement and I would just like to see that happen. I don't think bashing each other or Markus is helpful and I do not think that was the point of this thread at all. The point of this thread was to discuss the problems people are having with the game and to hopeful get a little feedback from Markus.

Markus are you out there?!??!!?

[rwd59]

Originally posted by Dale And Eli's Dad
I don't have a problem with posting problems. I have a problem with people starting 500 threads about the exact same thing as if they think pointing out a problem for the 500th time will make any difference.

I would and will post something 10,000 times if that is what it takes to get an answer. A comment from the one person who knows the answer could end alot of this. In the past that is what has happened but this is not the past. You may see me around here alot since my game has turned in to one runtime error after another. Markus is developer and tech support all in one. That may not be the best situation but is is the one we are in. other people have tried to help me out but nothing has worked. I have already got my money's worth of playing this version if it never works again, but if it never works again it will be my last dollar as well. Oh by the way, I have been around since OOTP 99 I am not a Johnny come lately who has nothing better to do than complain. If anyone thinks they can help me out, check out the Troubleshooting Forum and please give it a shot.