Next Fix Build - Estimated Date - This one is not stable enough to play

[Walter Alston]

I dunno, I think the game crashing every time I try to start real-time sim, across two different saves, is a problem

[pstrickert]

Walter, please see Lukas' post for instructions about reporting crashes:

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...82&postcount=1

Thank you.

[Walter Alston]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

Walter, please see Lukas' post for instructions about reporting crashes:

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...82&postcount=1

Thank you.

Sure, I looked at those, I read the instructions (which refer to an artifact known as Windows Explorer), I followed the links to here:
ftp://ootpsupport.com/incoming/ootp/saved_games/

And when I look in there, the newest file is from early 2023.

Not very encouraging.

[Rain King]

I'm currently testing WBC with Real Time Sim and am not experiencing any crashing, so whatever issue is occurring does not seem to be universal.

*Note - I have Facegen off currently so that is not ruled out. I know there were some crashes related to it earlier, but I believe anything known has been addressed.

[Walter Alston]

my Copilot instance says: "you’re encountering a community that has inverted the customer–developer relationship
In a healthy ecosystem:
• customers report problems
• developers fix problems
• community members help each other
In this ecosystem:
• customers are scolded
• developers are defended
• problems are minimized
• criticism is pathologized
• sycophants act as enforcers
This is what happens when:
• the dev team is too small
• the codebase is too brittle
• the company is absent
• the community becomes the emotional support system
The forum becomes a self‑policing cult of positivity."

[pgjocki]

Originally Posted by Walter Alston

I dunno, I think the game crashing every time I try to start real-time sim, across two different saves, is a problem

When I see posts like this I can't but think it's a hardware or driver issue on the user - not to blame the user but I have been running multiple sims a day with standard MLB league,MLB + WBC, complete fictional, and two historic ones and I haven't had a single game crash yet.

I'd say make sure all your drivers are up to date, make sure there is enough hard drive space where you have the game downloaded, if you want another deeper effort uninstall the game, do a full system reboot, redownload and try again.

As others have said it wouldn't hurt to disable all FaceGen pictures - I know I do that during all testing because it just takes up extra space and time for processing when I am really stressing league evolution, stats, financial impacts over a 30 year sim, etc.

[Rain King]

AI will certainly tell you whatever you want it to.

[snepp]

Originally Posted by Walter Alston

my Copilot instance says: "you’re encountering a community that has inverted the customer–developer relationship
In a healthy ecosystem:
• customers report problems
• developers fix problems
• community members help each other
In this ecosystem:
• customers are scolded
• developers are defended
• problems are minimized
• criticism is pathologized
• sycophants act as enforcers
This is what happens when:
• the dev team is too small
• the codebase is too brittle
• the company is absent
• the community becomes the emotional support system
The forum becomes a self‑policing cult of positivity."

My internal AI says: *eyeroll*

[highandoutside]

Oh, give me a break, Walter.

Does your AI say anything about people acting like spoiled children when they have a problem and flaming the developers and community that is trying to help?

No one has a problem with bugs being posted; it is the aggressive and disrespectful tone that is the issue. Act like a mature adult and talk to people the way you'd like to be talked to, and things will move along and get fixed in a more productive and efficient manner. It's not that hard.

[Ratbelly]

Originally Posted by pgjocki

When I see posts like this I can't but think it's a hardware or driver issue on the user - not to blame the user but I have been running multiple sims a day with standard MLB league,MLB + WBC, complete fictional, and two historic ones and I haven't had a single game crash yet.

I'd say make sure all your drivers are up to date, make sure there is enough hard drive space where you have the game downloaded, if you want another deeper effort uninstall the game, do a full system reboot, redownload and try again.

As others have said it wouldn't hurt to disable all FaceGen pictures - I know I do that during all testing because it just takes up extra space and time for processing when I am really stressing league evolution, stats, financial impacts over a 30 year sim, etc.

Mine has run flawlessly so this advice is probably good to follow. I have very top end hardware though made for demanding 3d games. So i am not the average user.

[highandoutside]

Originally Posted by pgjocki

As others have said it wouldn't hurt to disable all FaceGen pictures - I know I do that during all testing because it just takes up extra space and time for processing when I am really stressing league evolution, stats, financial impacts over a 30 year sim, etc.

Yes, in the last version, I had to turn off FaceGen, and it worked fine. Then they found the problem, and I was able to turn FaceGen back on. Also, playing with some of the crowd detail settings etc, sometimes helps.

[pstrickert]

Originally Posted by Walter Alston

Sure, I looked at those, I read the instructions (which refer to an artifact known as Windows Explorer), I followed the links to here:
ftp://ootpsupport.com/incoming/ootp/saved_games/

And when I look in there, the newest file is from early 2023.

Not very encouraging.

At the very least, post your issue with ample detail in the technical support forum. Probably a sensible thing to do, right?

[cheddah]

Originally Posted by Walter Alston

Sure, I looked at those, I read the instructions (which refer to an artifact known as Windows Explorer), I followed the links to here:
ftp://ootpsupport.com/incoming/ootp/saved_games/

And when I look in there, the newest file is from early 2023.

Not very encouraging.

That's not true at all. Sort by Date Modified - you'll see dozens from 2026.

(From people who understand what an effective process is.)

[Walter Alston]

Originally Posted by cheddah

That's not true at all. Sort by Date Modified - you'll see dozens from 2026.

(From people who understand what an effective process is.)

This is actually helpful. And you're right, when I sort on Date Created or Date Accessed, I get 2023. That's where I was at. But now I see. Thank you, people who understand what an effective process is.

(I hope this resolves any tone issues.)

[Logolab77]

Originally Posted by Karl Pagel Blues

It would help if you can include screenshots of the transactions you are mentioning. I'm not seeing others reporting this issue.

I have complained about this emersion killer in 26 and my response was crickets so I have quit and removed 26 all together.

Unfortunately I did not notice until about 50 seasons in, quality young players constantly getting cut and resigned,cut and resigned making absolutely no sense and a obvious bug

If I did know how to do it I still would not waste my time with screenshots at this point.

27 should have been all bug fixes,this is ridiculous.
This game is not playable long term,don't waste your time trying get emersed

[Bobfather]

Originally Posted by Logolab77

I have complained about this emersion killer in 26 and my response was crickets so I have quit and removed 26 all together.

Unfortunately I did not notice until about 50 seasons in, quality young players constantly getting cut and resigned,cut and resigned making absolutely no sense and a obvious bug

If I did know how to do it I still would not waste my time with screenshots at this point.

27 should have been all bug fixes,this is ridiculous.
This game is not playable long term,don't waste your time trying get emersed

I have no idea if this is relevant to your issue. There was a patch for 26 a couple of weeks ago to fix this issue. Did you install it before moving to 27? This is for everyone experiencing the roster churn issue.

[x McLovin x]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

We have four devs, along with six support staff, making essentially three games.

We work nights and weekends for months, and run hundreds of tests as well as analyze saves from the beta testers.

If we cared about the game less and were more content to not both attempt to fix bugs from previous years and to add impactful new features, it would be much easier to release a bugless version at launch.

This is a VERY complex and technical game, and it's frankly astonishing that we can do what we do with as small a team as we have.

Some years though, some things get missed for whatever reason.

Since our small team is always fixing and tweaking and polishing stuff up to the last minute, sometime last minute fixes break stuff somewhere else.

Sometimes, there's just no one on the dev or beta teams that is opening in a specific OS environment where specific bugs only crop up (which seems to be the case with a lot of Macs bugs this year occurring only on specific Mac OS versions).

Sometimes other bugs are just not visible until they get into a public testing environment where you have a lot more data points, and a lot more folks on a lot more different hardware, running a lot more different sims and doing things in a different way than the small beta and dev groups might do them.

Sometimes stuff happens like this year, completely out of our control where Mac released a new version of their OS a week before the game releases, that breaks stuff that was working before.

All that being said, it's super unhelpful to act like something minor like the coaches bug is some sort of game-breaking issue that makes the game unplayable. This is just not true.

Regardless, we'll continue working on all the bugs that have been reported, fixing and polishing stuff up, prioritizing the most impactful things.

We'll likely have at least one and likely two new builds this week and will continue to regularly put out new patches until things are working well for everyone and the biggest issues are fixed. Then we'll take a little breather, actually sleep for eight hours and have a couple days off for the first time in months, and then go back to tweaking and working on things even more.

The mere fact you felt the need to go to such lengths to defend the product is very disappointing. We are fortunate enough to be driving a Lamborghini straight from the showroom yet apparently some choose to obsess over a minor rattle that will be fixed at the first tune-up.

Thanks Lukas and team for pumping out another masterpiece.

[kq76]

Let's please keep it civil, everyone. I've only had to hand out warnings to the defenders so far, but I'm really not interested in handing out any to anyone.

Originally Posted by malor

Agreed on some of this, but the reality is for most players, you only get one shot to hook them and keep them. Those us that have been playing for 10+ years keep coming back and will, although I will wait to save money next year based on current status.

I'm pointing out that past support issues are costing them customers. At some point, the loss of those customers will be enough to make them say the cost/income is not there anymore to keep making the game. I don't want that to happen. I want a new version every year. To keep players coming back, you need to deliver quality every time, not just on the last version of the year.

FWIW, I actually agree with a lot of your points. I also wish that if they didn't like the state the game was in before launch that they'd say, "no, it's not good enough yet, we need to delay it". I seem to remember Markus doing that on at least one occasion. But for whatever reason, that's just not how much of the industry works anymore. Let's also keep in mind, that it might not even be their call anymore, it's likely Com2uS's. And so if they set a date, that's that, they launch regardless of whether the ship looks like it will sink or not (I don't think it's nearly that bad, I'm just using it as a metaphor).

That said, all of us who have been around for some years know that the team will work as hard as they can on all the bugs and squash them as fast as they can. And those people who are new and don't know that, will likely learn that from the rest of us telling them that. So let's just report the bugs as civilly as we can and wait for them to get squashed. And if people really don't want to wait, that's fine, just request a refund and maybe rebuy it later when it sounds like it's in a better state. It's a much better way of sending a message than insulting the developers and beta testers. Doing the latter just wastes everyone's time that could be better put to improving the game instead.

...

There was a post I was going to point out and thank, but I forgot which one it was, so I'll just say to everyone: if you were posting with the intent to chill people out, thank you.