Very disappointing decision 2.0

[fredbeene]

hahahahaahah arguing about silly stuff when you should be ranting about not having all the stats bb ref has and 20 year old HTML reports.

[DJ_Jak_32]

Originally Posted by RaUni

I've had every version of OOTP. I'm not jumping to any conclusions. I'm going by based on what happened. Their actions. With no words from their end.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

You are right, as I said the silence is deafening. Hope we hear something soon, but in the past they have at least made a statement when they were able to.

[OutS|der]

****ing BS move pulling the country from the game and corrupting save files. I just lost a save I put over 1000 hours into. I'm so done with this company.

What an utter mistake it was for Markus to sell out.

[Kobeck]

probably you were playing wrongly


that is what I was told




its your game you could not have been playing it wrong. That is the point of a sandbox game.

[coyotedelmar]

Originally Posted by silvam14

I’ve been around since OOTP3 myself. Obviously not thrilled with what is being done to save games even though it hardly affects me as I don’t play Japan leagues. I’d say for the first 15 years (man that’s a long time) I played straight fictional. I might look into going back to that now.


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I may go to doing fictional at some point. I always say I will but for some reason or another give up on it. I even started a MLB save after the 1st removal (in December?).

Right now the scrambling and how it was handled, and more importantly the almost complete silence afterward, has really left a bad taste in my mouth. As far as I've seen, the only thing they've said since 108 is they pay for the KBO license.

[BaseballGOAT]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

If this is a thread for genuine customer feedback regarding the recent changes, then let me offer mine:

I think this is a really terrible situation for all involved and I know some very draconian measures had to be taken, but I appreciate the way it was handled in many regards. I think it was nice for the patch notes to be (relatively) clear and concise rather than vague so that anyone who clicked the download knew exactly what was coming, and I appreciate that instead of wiping the leagues entirely they were just geographically displaced so that our fake baseball leagues can go on rather than having to be completely started over from scratch if the league just vanished. I also appreciate the significant effort that was put into trying to salvage and retain as many of the modding threads and mods as possible, rather than taking a heavy-fisted approach of nuking it all and telling everyone to start over based on the new parameters.

I am hopeful that some of the kinks in the execution can be worked out prior to OOTP24 and that there is a way to move forward to allow those people who do have strong feelings about having baseball in a specific country can have that itch scratched.

I feel me and you didn't read the same messages then because there has been nothing precise about this released to the general consumers of this game. There was one poorly worded post that was incredibly vague. Almost all information on what has happened to the saved games for those on steam or who patched has come second hand. This was absolutely not the way to handle this and retain trust in the product or the company. I've supported Markus and OOTP with every release since version 6.5. I won't stop playing the game, mainly because there isn't another game on the market that can even remotely come close to OOTP. I also have a lot of respect for people involved in various aspects of this company. I like a lot of people, miss the pre Com2uS days and feel like the customer service and transparency was much better then. But there is absolutely no defense for what has transpired. You're simply just being an apologist for the game at this point.

[OutS|der]

Markus has lost any support from me. This was a total BS move. I could understand removing the league but not the country and randomizing the players names.

Just a total BS move by the new overlords and just shows Markus is nothing but a puppet who has no say in anything anymore.

This is the death of OOTP we all knew and loved.

[Mat]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

Markus has lost any support from me. This was a total BS move. I could understand removing the league but not the country and randomizing the players names.

The country is not removed FFS!

[monkeyman576]

I assume they were given a cease and desist order, so they had no choice legally but to cease and desist, either that or pay the other company for the rights, which was probably not financially feasible given most players play for MLB, not Japan.

[OutS|der]

Originally Posted by Mat

The country is not removed FFS!

If the country is still there then what justification was there to randomize my players nationalities? I can understand changing the league and team names but all my players were fictional anyways so why did they have to be changed as well? Their names were randomized as well so I’ll be next to impossible to recover and figure out who was who.

This is the part that pisses me off the most.

[BaseballGOAT]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

If the country is still there then what justification was there to randomize my players nationalities? I can understand changing the league and team names but all my players were fictional anyways so why did they have to be changed as well? Their names were randomized as well so I’ll be next to impossible to recover and figure out who was who.

This is the part that pisses me off the most.

Key OOTP files should always be backed up just as any important file on a computer should

[MathBandit]

Originally Posted by ehalt

That matches what I've seen. The issues are with the [redacted] league, not the nation of Japan itself, which means Japanese players playing outside that league are unaffected by the bug, while non-Japanese players playing in [redacted] league get messed up. The confusion over fictional leagues is because it seems as though you also can't create a "fictional" league that's just an exact copy off the [redacted] league.

Going to focus on this part since it seems like by far the most productive dialogue we've been able to have about this.

The odd thing for me is in my tests (in the other thread, I think), former MLB players who are currently playing in THAT league (according to people who follow it more than the zero I do) are moved to South Africa in my save, but keep their names and all MLB stats/history.

[MathBandit]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

If the country is still there then what justification was there to randomize my players nationalities? I can understand changing the league and team names but all my players were fictional anyways so why did they have to be changed as well? Their names were randomized as well so I’ll be next to impossible to recover and figure out who was who.

This is the part that pisses me off the most.

My save still had hundreds and hundreds of Japanese players in it post-update. They just mostly play in South Africa.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by monkeyman576

I assume they were given a cease and desist order, so they had no choice legally but to cease and desist, either that or pay the other company for the rights, which was probably not financially feasible given most players play for MLB, not Japan.

No. from what I can suss out, Konami has exclusive rights to f *** k and they a. flat-out don't extend those rights, and b. pursue "violators" to an extreme extent (if they were a US company I'd say vexatiously). The things they've forced FM to do are pretty well documented but include not even allowing their scouting volunteers to maintain local databases of Japanese players for comparison purposes, and not even having their World Cup teams represented (which might sound minor because like who cares about Japanese soccer, but FM also does women's leagues now and Japan is a major national player in women's soccer).

But yeah, it's probably half-right. I'm just speculating based on what they've done in the past but it looks like "you either make these radical changes to your game, which includes like fruit from the poisoned tree or something or whatever Japan uses to justify this or we'll sue you into oblivion and no we don't care if you don't market in our country because apparently our country's definition of standing is radically different from normal countries' definitions". I very, very much doubt there is or was every anything on the table about OOTP acquiring the rights to use HRVPB* because working with others is not how Konami does "business".

*Human Rights Violations PB

[RaUni]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

No. from what I can suss out, Konami has exclusive rights to f *** k and they a. flat-out don't extend those rights, and b. pursue "violators" to an extreme extent (if they were a US company I'd say vexatiously). The things they've forced FM to do are pretty well documented but include not even allowing their scouting volunteers to maintain local databases of Japanese players for comparison purposes, and not even having their World Cup teams represented (which might sound minor because like who cares about Japanese soccer, but FM also does women's leagues now and Japan is a major national player in women's soccer).

But yeah, it's probably half-right. I'm just speculating based on what they've done in the past but it looks like "you either make these radical changes to your game, which includes like fruit from the poisoned tree or something or whatever Japan uses to justify this or we'll sue you into oblivion and no we don't care if you don't market in our country because apparently our country's definition of standing is radically different from normal countries' definitions". I very, very much doubt there is or was every anything on the table about OOTP acquiring the rights to use HRVPB* because working with others is not how Konami does "business".

*Human Rights Violations PB

All of this is useless speculation. There is no evidence of any of this being a thing. It is simply being used to take any focus off of the actions of the makers of this game.

[MathBandit]

Originally Posted by RaUni

All of this is useless speculation. There is no evidence of any of this being a thing. It is simply being used to take any focus off of the actions of the makers of this game.

I'm glad you agree that "useless speculation" gets us nowhere. I guess you changed your mind since last night?

Originally Posted by RaUni

It's not outside the realm of possibility that when OOTP was acquired, the parent company knew this could happen to bankrupt them, and had a part. And then they keep the IP. Happens all the time. Speculation of course.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[RaUni]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

I'm glad you agree that "useless speculation" gets us nowhere. I guess you changed your mind since last night?

You're right, we probably need a recap.

Here's what has happened.

OOTP has purposely damaged our personal saves after they sold us a product(possibly sold illegally) and have not said a word since.

Everything else is speculation. But every single Markus fanboy changes every conversation to how it couldn't possibly be the team that broke the product after the sale of the product. Had to be somebody else.



Thats about it.

[BretterThanYou]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

Going to focus on this part since it seems like by far the most productive dialogue we've been able to have about this.

The odd thing for me is in my tests (in the other thread, I think), former MLB players who are currently playing in THAT league (according to people who follow it more than the zero I do) are moved to South Africa in my save, but keep their names and all MLB stats/history.

Wondering if it has to do with these players still potentially being apart of the MLBPA? If OOTPD has a licensing agreement with the PA they'd still be eligible to be used. I don't know this is the case for a fact, but it's the only one I can come up with.

---

I will say that logically speaking, there is probably the potential of a lawsuit here, and the lack of information from the dev team is likely just due to that, they CAN'T say anything. I understand the situation sucks for many (I never really touched the redacted league, so I am not as effected as others), and I think that while logistically there could've been other things done, we don't know the whole story and likely will not for some time.

[ehalt]

It's very strange to me that Konami has been introduced by some as the villain in all of this, despite absolutely no indication from the makers of OOTP that that's the case. If you read the actual announcement of the patch from Markus on this site (https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=342760), you'll see the explanation:

"Com2uS asked us to remove all the data concerning this unlicensed league from OOTP. The reason is updated Com2uS license policies regarding the [league redacted] data."

Doesn't look like Markus thinks Konami is the issue here. It also doesn't sound from that announcement as if anyone was "forced" to do anything. This is explicitly framed as a policy choice by Com2uS.

[RaUni]

Originally Posted by ehalt

It's very strange to me that Konami has been introduced by some as the villain in all of this, despite absolutely no indication from the makers of OOTP that that's the case. If you read the actual announcement of the patch from Markus on this site (https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=342760), you'll see the explanation:

"Com2uS asked us to remove all the data concerning this unlicensed league from OOTP. The reason is updated Com2uS license policies regarding the [league redacted] data."

Doesn't look like Markus thinks Konami is the issue here. It also doesn't sound from that announcement as if anyone was "forced" to do anything. This is explicitly framed as a policy choice by Com2uS.

Exactly.
Markus- "Our business daddy ASKED us to do this"
Fanboys "They had no choice! There was no other option! Konami!"