'07 Patriots .. Best ever ?

[yankeesrule]

Originally Posted by Russ

They did this up 45 to the Skins.

They did it against the browns also, i remember cuz I bet on them(pats) and was giving 12 or 13 so got pissed that they didn't go for the fg and pts. of course, then the browns fumbled or got picked, forget which, and the pats scored the td anyway

[Slackker]

Someone really needs to explain to me why 'running up the score' is a bad thing, in terms of classiness. Yes, there is some wisdom is taking out key players to prevent injury. However, that really has nothing to do with class.

By the same token are we basically saying that a baseball team winning 9 to 1 in the eighth inning shouldn't even swing at pitches, and should just let the opposing team strike them out?

These players are professionals. Those who are emotionally involved and hurt by losses.. does it really matter if they lose 45-7 or 52-7? I don't think so. Frankly, I'd feel worse if the other team eased up or substituted reserve players. Basically, it's saying "Sorry we're so much better than you are. Here, play against our second and third stringers for the rest of the game. Maybe you can score a few points, or achieve some sort of moral victory by stopping three running plays in a row when you know that's all we're going to do!".

As far as the Patriots being the best team ever? Well, they're the best team I've seen through 10 weeks (bye week up next, so we'll go to that point). Tough for me to say that, being a Broncos fan. Still, I give them the edge over the late 98 Broncos.

I do believe they'll win all of their regular season games, and meet up with the Colts again in the AFC championship. If someone manages to beat the Colts in the divisional round of the playoffs.. well, Hello undefeated season. Of course this is barring major injury and things of that nature.

I'd classify the Browns as a reasonably good team that the Patriots have played. Not just the Cowboys. So, now that makes three. We'll also see the Giants and Pittsburgh. The 'trap game' may wind up being Buffalo after the bye.

The Patriots seemed to go back to what used to work against the Colts, rather than trying to play their own game and make the Colts adjust to it. The things they've been doing all year, playcalling-wise, were very much missing. I'm not saying it would have worked better, simply that their strategy was a flashback to earlier in the decade.

[Slackker]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

Almost every year there are 2-3 good teams, yes. But the gap between them and the next 10 best teams was never this big.

.. We must have been watching a different sport. There are only a few seasons in my lifetime where, more than halfway through the year, I thought anyone but 3-4 teams had a shot at the Super Bowl. Usually one conference is fairly obvious, and the other is basically "who are they going to beat? This much worse team, or this other much worse team?".

I can't even remember the last Super Bowl where the winner surprised me. I was surprised that Titans/Rams was so close, but prior to that... maybe Redskins/Bills? But I wasn't even ten at that point, so maybe that one was obvious as well.

[DougWyatt]

Originally Posted by Slackker

Someone really needs to explain to me why 'running up the score' is a bad thing, in terms of classiness. Yes, there is some wisdom is taking out key players to prevent injury. However, that really has nothing to do with class.

I don't think it's gonna happen. I've already asked twice.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by DougWyatt

I don't think it's gonna happen. I've already asked twice.

The classy thing to do is to win the game without humiliating your opponent. It used to be part of an idea called sportsmanship. "Classy" in this context means showing respect for your beaten opponents as human beings, as you would want to be if the situation were reversed.

It can be a difficult thing to do when your team is obviously superior to your opponent; you don't want to take a knee and humiliate them in that manner either. But there are ways. You don't call a time out to squeeze in one more offensive play before the half. You call an off-tackle run play instead of a long bomb. Subtle things like that.

The problem is, this concept of sportsmanship went out the window years ago. Few people younger than a certain age even know what I am talking about much less value the idea of sportsmanship in sports. But, since you asked, that is how running up the score against a beaten opponent is not a classy thing to do. Don't worry about it, unless you are ever on the wrong end of such a beating.

[Andy]

You can't really compare running up the score in football to baseball. A team can easily come back from 9-1 in the 8th inning. You're not restricted by time like in football.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Andy

You can't really compare running up the score in football to baseball. A team can easily come back from 9-1 in the 8th inning. You're not restricted by time like in football.

True. It's like pornography. Nobody can define it exactly, but you know it when you see it. Much depends on the situation and how it happens.

In college football, unfortunately, there is an incentive to beat up the little guys in order to get poll recognition. In pro football, on the other hand, there is no such incentive but there is the idea that these are pro athletes being paid handsomely, so their feelings should not be hurt as easily. So, you don't tell your players to let up for the reason of keeping the score down.

Still, there are situations where it is obvious that noses are being rubbed into the turf. You just don't take obvious and extraordinary steps to add on to your scoring total. Like I said, you know when somebody is running up the score. Belichick has the motivation, the personality, and the tools to do so, and has done it.

[Rossi]

Is the idea of "class" in sports a purely American idea?

I'm a rugby fan, which is the most similar sport we have over here to football in terms of scoring, and i've seen much bigger beatdowns than anything the Pats have done this season e.g Australia 142 Namibia 0, but instead of talking about running up the score (a term i've only heard whilst watching football) commentators and reporters only spoke of the ineptitude of the Namibians and questioned whether they should be allowed to play in a game against far superior opposition.

[Tony M]

Originally Posted by Andy

You can't really compare running up the score in football to baseball. A team can easily come back from 9-1 in the 8th inning. You're not restricted by time like in football.

And in a lot of sports one of the tiebreakers is generally a score differential. Heaven forfend if you're a team manager and you decide not to stomp over one opponent and your closest rivals do and they win on point difference.

[SandMan]

Classiness? That is BS. The first time you let your guard down someone is going to beat you. You have 60 minutes to play, just play the game to the best of your ability. Once you soften up, you risk injury as well as the game possibly.

I remember watching a game a few years back where a team had a 35-7 lead and lost 38-35 or close to those scores. So the team leading 35-7 eased up and look what happened? I am not a Patriots fan by any means but I don't feel that the way they are playing is wrong. They are just a great team.

The other teams do not need to allow for the Pats to score so much, they just need to adjust their play to stop them.....

[Slackker]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

You don't call a time out to squeeze in one more offensive play before the half.

Before the HALF? Now teams have to start being careful with their scoring before the game is even half over. Really, this antiquated notion is getting more and more out of control.

The problem is, this concept of sportsmanship went out the window years ago. Few people younger than a certain age even know what I am talking about much less value the idea of sportsmanship in sports.

I think everyone understands this rehashed concept of sportsmanship. Simply put (if you haven't gathered already) I find this concept of sportsmanship to be very insulting, and I would rather be on a team that lost 90-0 than one that lost 38-17 (after being down 35-0) when the opponent stopped trying. I guess I should have specified that I was looking for an explaination that I haven't heard dozens of times before.

It's the NFL. Yes, there is a time limit.. but we've seen some miracle comebacks before.

When do you stop being competitive, and start being 'classy'? When you're up 35-3 in the third?

1993 - Don't tell me you don't remember Frank Reich! Bills were down 35-3 going into the third quarter against the Oilers. Wound up winning 41-38.

Okay, so not 35-3 with half a game left. How about up 24 with just over a quarter left to play?

2003 - The Giants like to collapse. NFC playoffs against the 49ers they were up 38-14 nearing the end of the third quarter. Boom. Gone. San Francisco wins 39-38, with a lot of drama at the end of that game.

Still too close I guess. What about winning 35-7 after halftime?

1980 - San Francisco comes back against New Orleans, scoring 31 straight points and winning 38-35 in overtime.

Hmm, not then either. Up 23 with ten minutes left?

2000 - Jets were down 30-7 in the 4th against the Dolphins, won 40-37 in OT.

Okay, no. I guess we have to go later in the game. Up 21 with 4 minutes left? That's gotta be too late for a team to come back!

2003 - The Colts were down 35-14 against Tampa with 4 minutes left, and won 38-35 in OT.

Damn, I guess not.

So what's the verdict? Up by 35 in the fourth quarter? Is that when you start being classy? Yes, because losing by 35 with your opponent not trying for 25% of the game is much less humiliating than losing by 45 with both teams playing throughout.

Do these huge comebacks happen routinely? Absolutely not, but a couple of them happened in playoff games. This idea of 'sportsmanship' not only effects statistics artificially, but has ended the season of a few teams.

Never, ever let your guard down.

[Tony M]

Didn't some old bloke a long time ago write about a hare and tortoise and the hare had quite a big lead and decided not to carry on with the 'stomping'

Who won???

[Jestre]

I think I have heard it all now.... Boo Hoo the big bad Patweeots are wunning up the scwowe on ebbrybody boo hoo... Its professional football!!!! every team has the same salary and every team has the same assets available to build there teams with.... Its a violent game played with guts and emotion. Stop getting your panties in a twist and enjoy watching one of the dominant teams in NFL history playing with all the parts working at a high level. I have heard it all now, the Patriots are poor sports and not classy.... remember the bounty-bowl between the Eagles and Cowboys??? great stuff, did you get all wobbly and teary about that game too... jeez give me a break... go watch synchronized swimming or figure skating.... jeez....

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

I won't dignify the Jets and the Dolphins as trap games, but there are some possible sleepers among the rest who could cause trouble.

Agreed,

I think the Steelers game is going to be huge. I have a feeling it could be of the quality of the colts-pats game.

[mh2365]

The question is if they are 13-0 after the Steelers game and let's say they have wrapped up home field advantage, do they rest their starters some.

I think the Jets (because of the cheating) and the Dolphins (who cried the loudest about the running up the score) are going to be headhunting.

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by mh2365

The question is if they are 13-0 after the Steelers game and let's say they have wrapped up home field advantage, do they rest their starters some.

I think the Jets (because of the cheating) and the Dolphins (who cried the loudest about the running up the score) are going to be headhunting.

I think the Pats will be trying to put a 100 on the Jets because of the whole cheating thing. I don't remember the Dolphins complaining more about running up the score than some Redskins players though

[Splitter24]

I think Jets/Dolphins players and coaches are going to be more worried about remaining employed.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Slackker

It's the NFL. Yes, there is a time limit.. but we've seen some miracle comebacks before.

When do you stop being competitive, and start being 'classy'? When you're up 35-3 in the third?

1993 - Don't tell me you don't remember Frank Reich! Bills were down 35-3 going into the third quarter against the Oilers. Wound up winning 41-38.

Okay, so not 35-3 with half a game left. How about up 24 with just over a quarter left to play?

2003 - The Giants like to collapse. NFC playoffs against the 49ers they were up 38-14 nearing the end of the third quarter. Boom. Gone. San Francisco wins 39-38, with a lot of drama at the end of that game.

Still too close I guess. What about winning 35-7 after halftime?

1980 - San Francisco comes back against New Orleans, scoring 31 straight points and winning 38-35 in overtime.

Hmm, not then either. Up 23 with ten minutes left?

2000 - Jets were down 30-7 in the 4th against the Dolphins, won 40-37 in OT.

Okay, no. I guess we have to go later in the game. Up 21 with 4 minutes left? That's gotta be too late for a team to come back!

2003 - The Colts were down 35-14 against Tampa with 4 minutes left, and won 38-35 in OT.

Damn, I guess not.

So what's the verdict?

These examples you give do not apply. The Oilers did not let up because they were ahead 35-3. They did not let up at all. That is not why they lost.

The Giants game was a classic mistake. They thought they had the game won, rested some players, and it bit them in the arse.

All of these examples have a lot of time on the clock. When teams get a big lead, they tend to be more conservative so as not to give their opponent easy scores. Not because they are trying to not show them up. All of your examples (except the Oilers game) is a result of that. And that game is a perfect example of why teams let up.

The verdict is when you tack on points when the game is over. Like, up by 28 points, 58 seconds left in the game, and you add points when taking a knee would end it. That's all. When you add points to a game already won when you can just take a knee to end the game.

No team takes a knee with 4 minutes left in a game no matter how much their up by. And I feel sorry for any team that stops trying to score before halftime because of a big lead. You are just asking for trouble and it is an insult to your opponent.

[andjbock]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

No, but with 18 seconds left, they can show some class.

You seriousley think they should have taken a knee and turned the ball over?

Didn't Dallas call a timeout to stop the clock so they couldn't take a knee too?

[Splitter24]

Originally Posted by andjbock

You seriousley think they should have taken a knee and turned the ball over?

Didn't Dallas call a timeout to stop the clock so they couldn't take a knee too?

Yes, they did call a timeout. Dallas obviously felt they still had a chance to win.