'07 Patriots .. Best ever ? - Page 3

Prodigal Son · 11-04-2007, 11:45 PM

Decent chance they lose at Baltimore.

1998 Yankees · 11-04-2007, 11:45 PM

I really would prefer not to have the Giants in that role of trying to be "the team that denied history." I'm hoping somebody beats the Patriots before then!

Relief: I thought it was a Sunday night NBC game. It's a Saturday night on NFL.

Ragnar · 11-05-2007, 11:09 AM

The Patriots have a good chance of going undefeated and be coined the best team ever. But I think that is more of a result of watered down competition in the NFL than anything else.

andymac · 11-05-2007, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar

The Patriots have a good chance of going undefeated and be coined the best team ever. But I think that is more of a result of watered down competition in the NFL than anything else.

Where do you get watered down?

andjbock · 11-05-2007, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsvitak

Sure.

I love how people acuse the Patriots of running up the score. What are they supposed to do? Take a knee on the 1 yard line on 2 & goal with 8:00 left in the 4th quarter?

Ragnar · 11-05-2007, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymac

Where do you get watered down?

This year in the NFL there aren't any good teams. It's like a heavy weight boxing a light weight. They have their somewhat equal in the Colts, but the next best team is miles away. Even some division leaders I would consider poor football teams. But you can only play who is in your league and on your schedule. The Pats and Colts managed to keep it together while the rest of the league looks sloppy, average at best.

I'm a Cowboys fan and I consider this Cowboys team maybe half as good as the one in the early 90's. Don't get me wrong, i'm not comparing them H2H. I'm going by how they play on the field. The mistakes they make and the teams they beat. This Cowboys team would be lucky to win the Div in '92. But this Cowboys team may be in the SB this year.

Ragnar · 11-05-2007, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andjbock

I love how people acuse the Patriots of running up the score. What are they supposed to do? Take a knee on the 1 yard line on 2 & goal with 8:00 left in the 4th quarter?

No, but with 18 seconds left, they can show some class.

DougWyatt · 11-05-2007, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar

No, but with 18 seconds left, they can show some class.

Again with the "show some class".

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougWyatt

Just curious. Why is pulling your starters "classy" ?

I say this. If a team doesn't want the score ran up on them, well - stop the other team. If a coach feels it's in his teams best interest to practice this play or that play, that they need some gametime 2 minute drill work or whatever -- IMO - that's not unclassy.

andymac · 11-05-2007, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar

This year in the NFL there aren't any good teams. It's like a heavy weight boxing a light weight. They have their somewhat equal in the Colts, but the next best team is miles away. Even some division leaders I would consider poor football teams. But you can only play who is in your league and on your schedule. The Pats and Colts managed to keep it together while the rest of the league looks sloppy, average at best.

I'm a Cowboys fan and I consider this Cowboys team maybe half as good as the one in the early 90's. Don't get me wrong, i'm not comparing them H2H. I'm going by how they play on the field. The mistakes they make and the teams they beat. This Cowboys team would be lucky to win the Div in '92. But this Cowboys team may be in the SB this year.

I just don't buy it. Almost every year there are 2-3 teams that are head & shoulders above the rest of the league. I also don't think you can compare what a team could do versus some historical division or whatever. There is no eye-ball test for things such as offensive and defensive line play and even comparing skill players over time is at best problematic. I definitely don't think there is less physical talent in the league now than there has been at any time in history. In fact, I would bet there is more. There is the argument that the salary cap maybe has contributed to teams being a little less polished than they used to be because there is more player movement but I'm not sure that justifies a "watered down" description.

mh2365 · 11-05-2007, 03:21 PM

Since when did the NEP become the Barry Bonds of the NFL ... They used to be a classy organization and ever since they got caught cheating they have become total jerks.

Now when a team does play them close they accuse that team of cheating. Poor Brady and the unibomber weren't able to run up the score so they become poor close winners?

jeheinz72 · 11-05-2007, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Here's the remaining Patriots schedule, with current opponent team records. Seven games left on the path to glory. Speculation?

WK 10 Bye
WK 11 at Buffalo (4-4, Home: 3-2)
WK 12 Philadelphia (3-4, Road: 2-2)
WK 13 at Baltimore (4-3, Home: 3-0)
WK 14 Pittsburgh (5-2, Road: 2-2)
WK 15 NY Jets (1-8, Road: 0-4)
WK 16 Miami (0-8, Road: 0-4)
WK 17 at NY Giants (6-2, Home: 3-1)

It figures my team may be the one that they make history against by winning their final game.

Well, plus they'd have to win the Super Bowl...

Ragnar · 11-05-2007, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymac

I just don't buy it. Almost every year there are 2-3 teams that are head & shoulders above the rest of the league. I also don't think you can compare what a team could do versus some historical division or whatever. There is no eye-ball test for things such as offensive and defensive line play and even comparing skill players over time is at best problematic. I definitely don't think there is less physical talent in the league now than there has been at any time in history. In fact, I would bet there is more. There is the argument that the salary cap maybe has contributed to teams being a little less polished than they used to be because there is more player movement but I'm not sure that justifies a "watered down" description.

Perfect. You gave the perfect description. In football, that can mean a lot. That is what I am noticing. I think it does justify being called watered down if it is league wide.

Almost every year there are 2-3 good teams, yes. But the gap between them and the next 10 best teams was never this big.

Splitter24 · 11-05-2007, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mh2365

Since when did the NEP become the Barry Bonds of the NFL ... They used to be a classy organization and ever since they got caught cheating they have become total jerks.

Now when a team does play them close they accuse that team of cheating. Poor Brady and the unibomber weren't able to run up the score so they become poor close winners?

The Pats accused the Colts of cheating? Post link please.

andymac · 11-05-2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar

Perfect. You gave the perfect description. In football, that can mean a lot. That is what I am noticing. I think it does justify being called watered down if it is league wide.

Almost every year there are 2-3 good teams, yes. But the gap between them and the next 10 best teams was never this big.

Well, I said that argument has been made...I don't necessarily buy it. These teams have lots of training camp time and practice to get on the same page. As I said in the other thread, I think the complexity of the schemes is what plays the largest role. Complexity leads to a lot more ways to make mistakes.

Ragnar · 11-05-2007, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymac

Well, I said that argument has been made...I don't necessarily buy it. These teams have lots of training camp time and practice to get on the same page. As I said in the other thread, I think the complexity of the schemes is what plays the largest role. Complexity leads to a lot more ways to make mistakes.

It may be a combo of both. Because if that were 100% true, you would not see teams go from average in the first 5-6 games of the season to great football teams by seasons end. That has happened on many occasions in the past. That is a direct result of players on the team becomming more polished as the season progresses.

andymac · 11-05-2007, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar

It may be a combo of both. Because if that were 100% true, you would not see teams go from average in the first 5-6 games of the season to great football teams by seasons end. That has happened on many occasions in the past. That is a direct result of players on the team becomming more polished as the season progresses.

Or maybe coaches getting a better feel for what they can do well.

Serenity · 11-05-2007, 06:02 PM

Regardless, since we'll have to wait and see, what they've done in the current era of the salary cap and free agency is pretty special. YMMV, of course.

Ragnar · 11-05-2007, 06:10 PM

Even if the Pats go undefeated and win the SB, what makes them better than the '72 Dolphins? The 2 extra games? The Dolphins had to play the AFC Championship AWAY!

yankeesrule · 11-05-2007, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splitter24

The Pats accused the Colts of cheating? Post link please.

Pats claiming that the Colts were piping in crowd noise, that it wasn't all just the fans being loud. No way to prove it, just them accusing the colts.

And to the "what are the pats supposed to do, kneel with 8:00 to go" question, how about maybe not bombing it downfield, maybe run the ball a bit, those type of things. Even up 20+ on the final drive they've been throwing downfield. Against the browns, up 10 with about a minute to go they went for it on 4th and goal i believe at around the 5 yard line, with a pass attempt. Is that not trying to run up the score?

Russ · 11-05-2007, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yankeesrule

Against the browns, up 10 with about a minute to go they went for it on 4th and goal i believe at around the 5 yard line, with a pass attempt. Is that not trying to run up the score?

They did this up 45 to the Skins.

11-04-2007, 11:45 PM	#42
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	I really would prefer not to have the Giants in that role of trying to be "the team that denied history." I'm hoping somebody beats the Patriots before then! Relief: I thought it was a Sunday night NBC game. It's a Saturday night on NFL. Last edited by 1998 Yankees; 11-04-2007 at 11:51 PM.

11-05-2007, 06:02 PM	#57
Serenity Bat Boy Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Vegas baby, Vegas Posts: 10	Regardless, since we'll have to wait and see, what they've done in the current era of the salary cap and free agency is pretty special. YMMV, of course. __________________ I don't believe there's a power in the world that can stop my girlfriend from being cheerful. However, sometimes you just wanna duct tape her mouth and throw her in the closet for a bit.

11-04-2007, 11:45 PM	#41
Prodigal Son All Star Starter Join Date: May 2006 Location: Iahiodo a.k.a. the flyover Posts: 1,635	Decent chance they lose at Baltimore.

11-05-2007, 11:09 AM	#43
Ragnar Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,502	The Patriots have a good chance of going undefeated and be coined the best team ever. But I think that is more of a result of watered down competition in the NFL than anything else.

11-05-2007, 03:21 PM	#50
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,941 Infractions: 0/2 (101)	Since when did the NEP become the Barry Bonds of the NFL ... They used to be a classy organization and ever since they got caught cheating they have become total jerks. Now when a team does play them close they accuse that team of cheating. Poor Brady and the unibomber weren't able to run up the score so they become poor close winners?

11-05-2007, 06:10 PM	#58
Ragnar Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,502	Even if the Pats go undefeated and win the SB, what makes them better than the '72 Dolphins? The 2 extra games? The Dolphins had to play the AFC Championship AWAY!