The 2023 NFL Season Thread

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by mytreds

I think it’s Daks overall postseason performance people are looking at, not just yesterday alone. Like dsvitak says, 2-5 in the postseason isn’t good. How many more attempts does Dak get before people realize he just isn’t that good, or maybe needs to leave Dallas and find a system he works well in.

I'm not going to debate about Dak's playoff history. That would be foolish to defend.

Again,I'm not going to sit here and say none of it was Dak's fault. As I mentioned yesterday, the Panthers scored 30 on the Packers & then got shutout for the rest of the season. There's no way Dallas should have been almost shutout in the 1st half.

Six TD's in 7 possessions, guys. Forty-two points in their first 47 plays! I'm saying anyone who watched Sunday & all they saw was Dak's mistakes as the culprit is an illogical Dak hater.

[rudel.dietrich]

1 close game over the three days.
I hope next week provides some more compelling games.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

1 close game over the three days.
I hope next week provides some more compelling games.

The conspiracy theorist in me says every game next weekend will go to the final possession.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I'm not going to debate about Dak's playoff history. That would be foolish to defend.

Again,I'm not going to sit here and say none of it was Dak's fault. As I mentioned yesterday, the Panthers scored 30 on the Packers & then got shutout for the rest of the season. There's no way Dallas should have been almost shutout in the 1st half.

Six TD's in 7 possessions, guys. Forty-two points in their first 47 plays! I'm saying anyone who watched Sunday & all they saw was Dak's mistakes as the culprit is an illogical Dak hater.

No, you don’t understand. If Kurt Warner was their QB, he would have made the defense hold. That was the real power of Warner you libs seem to misunderestimate: his ability to call plays for his own defense. This one time I even saw him come in as the defensive end and get 3 sacks on one play! That game tape was destroyed in a fire so you can’t see it.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

No, you don’t understand. If Kurt Warner was their QB, he would have made the defense hold. That was the real power of Warner you libs seem to misunderestimate: his ability to call plays for his own defense. This one time I even saw him come in as the defensive end and get 3 sacks on one play! That game tape was destroyed in a fire so you can’t see it.

He doesn't have to make the D hold, just score more points. He's done it multiple times. Once in the playoffs. But I realize it's not a reasonable expectation.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by mytreds

I think it’s Daks overall postseason performance people are looking at, not just yesterday alone. Like dsvitak says, 2-5 in the postseason isn’t good. How many more attempts does Dak get before people realize he just isn’t that good, or maybe needs to leave Dallas and find a system he works well in.

I just go by how the QB actually plays in those games, not that meaningless win/loss stat. Out of those 7 playoff games, how many times were the Cowboys expected to win? The answer is 3 times. Before this recent game, Dak and the Cowboys playoff losses came against better teams, or teams equally as good.

It's a lot easier to lead your team to victory when you're the favorite, or heavy favorite. Go back and look at how many times Tom Brady and Joe Montana won playoff games when they were dogs.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Agreed. Six out of 7, Rags. Six out of frikkin' seven. It wasn't about more opportunities. It was about the D's inability.

Let me put it a different way. Even if the Cowboys D held, and played good from the 2nd quarter on, the game was lost at 14-0. The game would have ended with a more reasonable loss, like 24-13.

I've seen this act too many times. Once they go down by 2 scores the team shuts down, including the QB. I guess they can't handle the pressure. The offense loosened up later in the game when it was already over.

[pilight]

So, as to the value of drafting a QB at the top of the draft...we had two teams reach the playoffs starting QBs they drafted in the top five. Both played this weekend, the byes went to a QB from the late first round and one from the 7th round. The two that played this weekend went 1-1. CJ Stroud is the last hope to break the long drought of teams winning championships by drafting QBs at the top of the draft, now 17 years and counting.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I never claimed Dak had a good game. I never said he doesn't shoulder some blame. I said he shouldn't get all the blame.

There we agree.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

Let me put it a different way. Even if the Cowboys D held, and played good from the 2nd quarter on, the game was lost at 14-0.

No it wasn't. Sometimes a team may be slow out the gate, but if they at least show some resistance, they can get rolling & start a comeback. It happens all the time. Dallas's D never offered resistance. So blame Dak for the terrible start on offense. But if the Dallas D showed up, they might have kept it close enough so the offense could get them back in the game. But they sat there as roadkill. At least Dak & the O fed on some empty calories in the 2nd half. Dallas D continued to get chewed up.

I understand if you just don't like Dak. I understand if you have seen enough to be ready to move on. I get that. Wouldn't try to convince you otherwise.

But Sunday was not solely his fault. His performance maybe another reason to give him his walking papers. But Sunday's result wasn't on him alone.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

No, you don’t understand. If Kurt Warner was their QB, he would have made the defense hold. That was the real power of Warner you libs seem to misunderestimate: his ability to call plays for his own defense. This one time I even saw him come in as the defensive end and get 3 sacks on one play! That game tape was destroyed in a fire so you can’t see it.

There must some kind of Kurt Warner/Chuck Norris thing I'm unaware of.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

No it wasn't. Sometimes a team may be slow out the gate, but if they at least show some resistance, they can get rolling & start a comeback. It happens all the time. Dallas's D never offered resistance. So blame Dak for the terrible start on offense. But if the Dallas D showed up, they might have kept it close enough so the offense could get them back in the game. But they sat there as roadkill. At least Dak & the O fed on some empty calories in the 2nd half. Dallas D continued to get chewed up.

I understand if you just don't like Dak. I understand if you have seen enough to be ready to move on. I get that. Wouldn't try to convince you otherwise.

But Sunday was not solely his fault. His performance maybe another reason to give him his walking papers. But Sunday's result wasn't on him alone.

What can I say about the defense? Yeah, you're losing 99% of the games when you give up that many points. My focus was more on why our offense shuts down under a specific situation. It doesn't matter how well or poorly the Cowboys D plays. Go back to week 3 for an example of this Jeckel and Hyde offense. Down 9-0. game over. Against the Packers I was concerned when they went up 7-0, let alone 14-0. That's not normal.

The Dolphins were up 3-0. I was concerned because I knew if they made it 10-0, we'd probably lose. Dallas scored, and the game played out normally.

I don't dislike Dak. If it ever sounded like I blamed him for a loss, then I chose my words poorly. I'm usually defending him more than criticizing him. People tend to criticize him far more than many of his counterparts.

[thehef]

When you lose a game 48-32 and your offense didn't come alive until the game was pretty much out of reach, I'm thinking the blame pie has similar sized chunks for everyone involved. In this case, Dak & the skill players, the O-line, the entirety of the defense, the coaching staff. Heck, even the kicker missed an extra point...

Dak certainly deserves a share. But it's worth noting that neither Dak nor any other QB gets blamed when their defense is dominant and they win a game 13-3.

At any rate, as a Miami fan, I would take Dak over Tua in a heartbeat

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

What can I say about the defense? Yeah, you're losing 99% of the games when you give up that many points. My focus was more on why our offense shuts down under a specific situation. It doesn't matter how well or poorly the Cowboys D plays. Go back to week 3 for an example of this Jeckel and Hyde offense. Down 9-0. game over. Against the Packers I was concerned when they went up 7-0, let alone 14-0. That's not normal.

The Dolphins were up 3-0. I was concerned because I knew if they made it 10-0, we'd probably lose. Dallas scored, and the game played out normally.

I don't dislike Dak. If it ever sounded like I blamed him for a loss, then I chose my words poorly. I'm usually defending him more than criticizing him. People tend to criticize him far more than many of his counterparts.

I don't believe anyone specifically said "It was only Dak's fault." But everyone's focus was on Dak & the offense. And when I brought up the D, dvistak response indicated reasoning the focused Dak hate for Sunday's loss was merited. He later said he agreed both were to blame, so fine.

Prescott wasn't good. But Cowboy fans ignoring what the D did and only talking Dak I think isn't fair. Even if Dak played every bit to the level that he is getting paid at, Dallas still would have lost w/that kind of defensive performance. And if any decision makers in Irving are solely left w/questions about why Dak played the way he did and not why the D played the way they did, then the SB is even further away than they think.

Six TD's in 7 possessions is a problem.

[Amazin69]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I never claimed Dak had a good game. I never said he doesn't shoulder some blame. I said he shouldn't get all the blame.

Even if Dak had a good game, it would be highly unlikely he could make up for 42 points. Anybody that wants to say Sunday was Dak's fault solely is just a hater of Dak. There is zero logic to conclude Prescott was responsible for 42 points when he was on the sidelines. It's ludicrous.

Again, the best the D could be expected to do after the pick that set GB up in the Red Zone would be to hold the Pack to a FG. So that's 10 points Dak gifted the Pack.

Green Bay scored 48 points. If you want to absolve Prescott of all responsibility except for the 10 points on picks (despite previously-made points about time of possession/momentum etc.), that leaves 38 points of "blame" for the defense.

Now, 38 points is a lot to make up. However, Dallas averaged 37 PPG at home this season. So if Dak and the offense had performed to their established norms, the game would have been competitive.

It was not. Because they did not.

One must also consider Prescott's previous playoff record. To win a championship, every team but the #1 seed needs to win four games. It is hard to imagine that Prescott, given his performances, can do that.

It would be one thing if he was still young and adapting to the League, but Dak has been here for a fair piece of time. It could be time to consider other options. JMO.

[Ragnar]

I can't stress this enough. The Cowboys offense shuts down when trailing by 2 scores. End of story. Blame whoever you want. Blame the defense, blame anyone. But the game is over once the Cowboys go down by 2 scores. The offense seems to play scared. Moving the ball seems labored even against poor defenses. This is the pattern we're seeing.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

Again, the best the D could be expected to do after the pick that set GB up in the Red Zone would be to hold the Pack to a FG. So that's 10 points Dak gifted the Pack.

Green Bay scored 48 points. If you want to absolve Prescott of all responsibility except for the 10 points on picks (despite previously-made points about time of possession/momentum etc.), that leaves 38 points of "blame" for the defense.

Now, 38 points is a lot to make up. However, Dallas averaged 37 PPG at home this season. So if Dak and the offense had performed to their established norms, the game would have been competitive.

It was not. Because they did not.

One must also consider Prescott's previous playoff record. To win a championship, every team but the #1 seed needs to win four games. It is hard to imagine that Prescott, given his performances, can do that.

It would be one thing if he was still young and adapting to the League, but Dak has been here for a fair piece of time. It could be time to consider other options. JMO.

Once again, I'm not arguing about Dak's past performance. So any points you bring up about Dak outside of Sunday is irrelevant.

And all you just did was prove my point. If Dak played to his expected level, Dallas still would have lost cause the D was that awful.

BTW, if you want to bring up Dallas' past home performances, keep in mind those were vs the Giants, Commanders, Patriots, Jets & Eagles in a downfall plus the Rams, Seahawks. And the O averaged 34 pts per game if you take out 4 defensive td's. And who knows how much further that # goes down if we want to consider how many were set up by turnovers, just like we subtract from Sunday's TO cause of Dak's INTs.

So now what do you have? We've only furthered the argument that if Dallas D played like they were capable of (the same standard we hold to Dak), like stop somebody, get turnovers, get sacks all of which would help the offense, the results would have been much different.

The fiasco Sunday was a true TEAM EFFORT. You can't blame one person. Even their nearly perfect kicker shanked an XP.

[Amazin69]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Once again, I'm not arguing about Dak's past performance. So any points you bring up about Dak outside of Sunday is irrelevant.

And all you just did was prove my point. If Dak played to his expected level, Dallas still would have lost cause the D was that awful.

BTW, if you want to bring up Dallas' past home performances, keep in mind those were vs the Giants, Commanders, Patriots, Jets & Eagles in a downfall plus the Rams, Seahawks. And the O averaged 34 pts per game if you take out 4 defensive td's. And who knows how much further that # goes down if we want to consider how many were set up by turnovers, just like we subtract from Sunday's TO cause of Dak's INTs.

So now what do you have? We've only furthered the argument that if Dallas D played like they were capable of (the same standard we hold to Dak), like stop somebody, get turnovers, get sacks all of which would help the offense, the results would have been much different.

The fiasco Sunday was a true TEAM EFFORT. You can't blame one person. Even their nearly perfect kicker shanked an XP.

I think you are arguing against a straw man here. I can't recall anybody claiming the loss was 100% Prescott's fault.

But you seem to want to completely excuse his performance with your "I know he didn't play well, but the D sucked so bad, Superman couldn't have won that game." As if the knowledge that your QB is playing like total ass doesn't make it harder for a defense to buckle down.

I mean, I can make your argument in reverse. "Why are you getting all over the D? Even if they completely shut down Love, they still would have been behind at the half. Dak gave GB 10 points, and only managed to score on that final drive because the Packers were up 27-0 and probably not at 100% intensity. The Purple People-Eaters couldn't have won with Dak being a sleeper agent for the Pack." That probably exaggerates things as well.

Again, the D played like ass. Nobody is disputing that.

I just don't think that's an excuse to handwave aside Dak playing like even more ass, and having a history of playing like ass (don't say you only want to discuss Sunday…if Dak hadn't been a big-name QB that people were touting for MVP, nobody would be emotionally defending him) and looking very much like someone who will only win a ring sitting on the bench somewhere else, if at all.

I'm not even emotionally involved here. I'm glad Dallas lost. I just think an honest assessment would give Prescott the blame for failing to do what quarterbacks are supposed to do, rather than being all "don't forget the penalty on the 2-pt try!"

JMO.

[mytreds]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

I think you are arguing against a straw man here.
…

I just don't think that's an excuse to handwave aside Dak playing like even more ass, and having a history of playing like ass (don't say you only want to discuss Sunday…if Dak hadn't been a big-name QB that people were touting for MVP, nobody would be emotionally defending him) and looking very much like someone who will only win a ring sitting on the bench somewhere else, if at all.

Well said.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

Again, the best the D could be expected to do after the pick that set GB up in the Red Zone would be to hold the Pack to a FG. So that's 10 points Dak gifted the Pack.

Green Bay scored 48 points. If you want to absolve Prescott of all responsibility except for the 10 points on picks (despite previously-made points about time of possession/momentum etc.), that leaves 38 points of "blame" for the defense.

Now, 38 points is a lot to make up. However, Dallas averaged 37 PPG at home this season. So if Dak and the offense had performed to their established norms, the game would have been competitive.

It was not. Because they did not.

One must also consider Prescott's previous playoff record. To win a championship, every team but the #1 seed needs to win four games. It is hard to imagine that Prescott, given his performances, can do that.

It would be one thing if he was still young and adapting to the League, but Dak has been here for a fair piece of time. It could be time to consider other options. JMO.

I've always given Dak the benefit of the doubt because the Cowboys have always beaten the teams they were supposed to beat in the playoffs, and lost to the teams they were expected to lose to. Up until this past Sunday. Had that trend continued, Dallas would have met the 49ers in the championship game and lost. A lot of QBs have trouble beating the better team. Ask Rodgers why he can't beat a Garoppolo led 49ers team.

My focus was on the offense and the problems they've had all season. Dak panics under pressure.