Competitive balance discussion

[SayHey1]

Originally Posted by Westheim

Looks like you were really unlucky. I probably got more out of it than I deserved (1 perfect, 4 diamond in about 40 packs?), but I was also dumb-lucky enough to jump-start the whole thing by drawing Fergie Jenkins as my initial gold card and moving him for 20k on Day 1. I also made 10k from a Herb Score card and 5k from Manny Machado more recently in addition to buying $20 worth of points.

I am playing it all packs; I just like opening them too much. After PT went live, I only bought six cards off the market. Xander Bogaerts, Carlos Martinez, and Yoenis Cespedes with my initial Fergie loot (actually 5,900 total), and since then spent less than 200 points combined on '99 David Cone, Jake Lamb, and Clyde Milan.

If I was opening packs with Fergie Jenkins and another Perfect Player and 4 Diamonds, I would probably feel the same. I would consider myself very lucky if I were you.


I've watched others open packs too (friends and streamers including the devs). I've probably watched 200+ packs besides my own opened and I've only seen 1 Perfect Player ever come from a pack (it was Roger Clemmons opened by Kris Jardine AKA Snaggle). That's it.

[SayHey1]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

I couldn't disagree more. It's been a week and a half since Beta, and in that time, I've bought maybe 7 or 8 packs. Not counting my starting Gold card, I have pulled exactly 1 Gold, 0 Diamonds, and 0 Perfects. That one Gold (Patrick Corbin ftw) was placed on my roster, not sold.

And yet, before this most recent season, I was able to buy Severino in the AH and still have PP to spare. He's not the best of the best, obviously (he's not even best of his class), but he is a good, solid, Diamond card that I was able to outright buy with the PP I earned over just a week and a half of play, without spending a dime.

I don't think I got overly lucky, either. My starting Gold was Johnny Bench, who did well for me but not spectacular. I was definitely lucky to have an amazing season from Johnny Mize (also a starting pull), who earned Batting Champion in my league, but beyond that, almost all of the top performers on my team were Bronzes, Silvers, or low Golds that I targeted in the AH. And I wound up the "whale" in my division (104 wins).

Not sure how what you wrote above disputes what I wrote? When opening packs, some folks have gotten lucky. Some haven't. Fun factor multiplies exponentially upon drawing the rare cards.


All the above depends upon good luck when opening packs if you aren't spending money.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by SayHey1

If I was opening packs with Fergie Jenkins and another Perfect Player and 4 Diamonds, I would probably feel the same. I would consider myself very lucky if I were you.


I've watched others open packs too (friends and streamers including the devs). I've probably watched 200+ packs besides my own opened and I've only seen 1 Perfect Player ever come from a pack (it was Roger Clemmons opened by Kris Jardine AKA Snaggle). That's it.

ALL of the perfect cards in the game came from packs.

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by SayHey1

Not sure how what you wrote above disputes what I wrote? When opening packs, some folks have gotten lucky. Some haven't. Fun factor multiplies exponentially upon drawing the rare cards.

All the above depends upon good luck when opening packs if you aren't spending money.

I got lucky just once, with the Corbin pull. Twice, if you want to count Mize (but I wasn't really excited at the time, he just turned in a spectacular season). And I still had plenty of fun and success, enough to be the best team in my league and purchase a Diamond card over the weekend.

Maybe I don't understand what you're trying to say?

[SayHey1]

Originally Posted by Orcin

ALL of the perfect cards in the game came from packs.

Water is wet.

[SayHey1]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

I got lucky just once, with the Corbin pull. Twice, if you want to count Mize (but I wasn't really excited at the time, he just turned in a spectacular season). And I still had plenty of fun and success, enough to be the best team in my league and purchase a Diamond card over the weekend.

Maybe I don't understand what you're trying to say?

I guess I can't make it much plainer than I did in the post you quoted.


Lets try this: It sucks to spend a $50 and get nothing but mostly garbage, 2 golds, a half dozen silvers and no diamonds and perfects while reading about the perfects, diamonds and legends others have pulled.



(I sold 98% of the cards pulled and used that to buy decent players.)



Meanwhile, I don't want to monopolize the conversation nor leave a bad taste with others. I realize my experience isn't the case for others. But for every excited PT player out there having fun there is a counterpart who isn't.

[Fireanty]

Is there any way to make the divisions more balance? I got 4 teams over 108wins last season in my division, division of death, and I see another division with no 100+wins team last season, most of them were .500 or even worse. That makes me feel terrbile. Maybe Terrible for a week.

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by SayHey1

I guess I can't make it much plainer than I did in the post you quoted.


Lets try this: It sucks to spend a $50 and get nothing but mostly garbage, 2 golds, a half dozen silvers and no diamonds and perfects while reading about the perfects, diamonds and legends others have pulled.

Yeah, I get that. Obviously it does, I feel you. But that's the gamble you take when buying packs. Some people get lucky, others don't; it's not an inherent flaw in the game or anything. Because then you go on to say:

Originally Posted by SayHey1

(I sold 98% of the cards pulled and used that to buy decent players.)

So I don't see what the problem is beyond a mild sense of disappointment. No one is entitled to a Perfect card just because they spent $50. It sure sucks if you get nothing, but that's how it goes.

[zrog2000]

Originally Posted by SayHey1

I guess I can't make it much plainer than I did in the post you quoted.


Lets try this: It sucks to spend a $50 and get nothing but mostly garbage, 2 golds, a half dozen silvers and no diamonds and perfects while reading about the perfects, diamonds and legends others have pulled.



(I sold 98% of the cards pulled and used that to buy decent players.)



Meanwhile, I don't want to monopolize the conversation nor leave a bad taste with others. I realize my experience isn't the case for others. But for every excited PT player out there having fun there is a counterpart who isn't.

For every winner there is a loser. It's not fun to lose. But without losers, there would be no baseball. And if everyone got perfects and diamonds all the time, they'd all be worthless, no one would spend money and everyone would lose interest quickly. There has to be SOME kind of challenge for everyone.

[SayHey1]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

So I don't see what the problem is beyond a mild sense of disappointment. No one is entitled to a Perfect card just because they spent $50. It sure sucks if you get nothing, but that's how it goes.

The problem for me is I wasted $50 but I can fix that by not spending any more money with OOTP which at this moment I'm inclined to consider.



Which DOES lead to a problem with OOTP if they give a crap about their player base and whether there are others that feel they have wasted their money. In Las Vegas where they have this down to a science they understand this basic concept of drop rate. Gamblers who don't see payoff every so often stop gambling.

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by SayHey1

Which DOES lead to a problem with OOTP if they give a crap about their player base and whether there are others that feel they have wasted their money. In Las Vegas where they have this down to a science they understand this basic concept of drop rate. Gamblers who don't see payoff every so often stop gambling.

I can assure you, not personally, but relatively certainly, that the dev team are monitoring the drop rate. They made changes to it in Beta already, and if something seems out of whack, I expect more changes. You got stupidly unlucky. It happens, and it really sucks. That doesn't mean something's wrong with the system.

EDIT: To use your analogy, I can also assure you that there are people like you going to casinos and losing multiple times in a row without seeing a payout. Of course they want to limit that occurrence, but it literally has to happen to some people, because it's a mathematical near-certainty.

[SayHey1]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

You got stupidly unlucky.

Not just me but practically everyone I've ever seen open packs even those opened by Devs on their live streams. (Hundreds of packs)

[stl jason]

Originally Posted by SayHey1

Not just me but practically everyone I've ever seen open packs even those opened by Devs on their live streams. (Hundreds of packs)

yeah, would be nice to land a perfect/diamond player from a pack.... haven't pulled one here either.... but if landing that type player is key to enjoying the game, then if you're willing to spend $$ on points, those might better be served bidding on players in the AH so you're guaranteed to get what you want.

got one team I'm limiting to packs only (no AH) and no $$ added... only made enough for 15 packs so far.... 4 gold players so far from those (all being used in the lineup)... that being said, it was good enough to win my division last year and start out in first place in the new division this year.... just roll with it.

[NYY #23]

Originally Posted by SayHey1

If I was opening packs with Fergie Jenkins and another Perfect Player and 4 Diamonds, I would probably feel the same. I would consider myself very lucky if I were you.


I've watched others open packs too (friends and streamers including the devs). I've probably watched 200+ packs besides my own opened and I've only seen 1 Perfect Player ever come from a pack (it was Roger Clemmons opened by Kris Jardine AKA Snaggle). That's it.

How many perfect players do you expect to see come out of packs? The odds are 1:1000, so seeing one pulled out of 200 packs makes sense.

[NYY #23]

Originally Posted by stl jason

yeah, would be nice to land a perfect/diamond player from a pack.... haven't pulled one here either.... but if landing that type player is key to enjoying the game, then if you're willing to spend $$ on points, those might better be served bidding on players in the AH so you're guaranteed to get what you want.

got one team I'm limiting to packs only (no AH) and no $$ added... only made enough for 15 packs so far.... 4 gold players so far from those (all being used in the lineup)... that being said, it was good enough to win my division last year and start out in first place in the new division this year.... just roll with it.

This is it exactly. If you spent $50 that could buy you two perfects in the AH. You take the chance and buy packs you might get none, but you might get lucky and pull a Ruth. If you want a sure thing go the AH route, if you want to swing for the fences open packs.

[Kushiel]

Originally Posted by SayHey1

The problem for me is I wasted $50 but I can fix that by not spending any more money with OOTP which at this moment I'm inclined to consider.



Which DOES lead to a problem with OOTP if they give a crap about their player base and whether there are others that feel they have wasted their money. In Las Vegas where they have this down to a science they understand this basic concept of drop rate. Gamblers who don't see payoff every so often stop gambling.

With the 75k PP you got for a one time buy, you could have bought a nice little team that would surprise you with diligent shopping on the AH. You made the choice to buy packs. OOTP-PT is not responsible for you decisions whether they are good or bad. The card buying page lists the odds.

[<Pion>]

Using BIN amounts at this time, with 75K PP, you can buy a Perfect player for your outfield, two diamonds in your infield, and three diamonds for your starting pitching and still have money left over for a few packs to open.

[Zephaerus]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

As long as you have position players in your lineups and pitchers on your pitching staff you are fine, of course

I wish you wouldn't ban people following your rules after drawing a clear line in the sand for what is and isn't allowed.

[pstrickert]

Kris Jardine, during the latest episode of This Week, said 3 teams with just 83 wins were champions in the bronze round. Sounds good until you remember there were about 175 different leagues running (if my math is correct). I’d be curious to know the average win totals of all the winners in all the leagues.

[Maddox]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

Kris Jardine, during the latest episode of This Week, said 3 teams with just 83 wins were champions in the bronze round. Sounds good until you remember there were about 175 different leagues running (if my math is correct). I’d be curious to know the average win totals of all the winners in all the leagues.

We had a team in my bronze league that won their division with a losing record. But we also had two teams in the 110 plus win range. I finished 2nd in my division with 95 wins and was something like 16 games behind the leader.