Lennox Lewis to retire! - Page 3

wildhawke11 · 02-07-2004, 07:20 AM

60s
Short and Sweet, your 100% on.

Maybe if he had been born in USA, smashed up a few cars, had a few fights outside the ring, insulted all, but you get the picture he would have appealed a little better to most.

PittPanther · 02-07-2004, 09:26 AM

Or maybe if he didn't get his clocked cleaned by Ollie McCall and Hasim Rachman. . .

I'm sure this kind of competiton would have knocked out every all time great on your personal list of the best heavies.

Playing devil's advocate here, if Lewis is to be ranked among the top heavies of all time, please point to a defining fight or moment in his career that could sell others on your viewpoint.

Then you might quell the dissenters----until then, you will always hear the argument "he was good, not great."

GDE · 02-07-2004, 11:16 AM

Athletics in general are being ruined by money. You no longer get the real determination to play the game. You get no loyalty to the fans. You only get spoiled rich people. They don't care about the product that is put on display as long as they get paid.

Nocramj · 02-08-2004, 05:45 AM

My two cents!!! When it's all said and done, I liked Lennox as the heavyweight champion. He didn't get arrested (tyson, Bowe, neon Leon, Dokes, Moorer), He didn't father half a dozen kids with a bunch of different women ( Evander), hasn't need to be commited for psyco eval (Bruno, Douglas, McCall, Foreman, Bowe again, Tate and prob Iron Mike) and wasn't a drug addict ( Thomas, McCall, Leon again) And never showed up grossly out of shape to defend his title, (Tubbs, Witherspoon, Douglas) All in all he carried the title with more dignity that anyone since Larry Holmes and a possibly a 40 something George Foreman.

But one thing will always bother me when it comes to Lewis and Tyson. What great Heavyweight can claim to have been beaten by club fighters or fringe contenders in their prime ( Douglas for Tyson and McCall / Rachman for Lewis ) Ali was 36 and showing signs of Parkinsons when Spinks got him. Louis, Tunney, Marciano, Dempsey, Jack Johnson, Frazier. As disgracful as liston's fights against Ali were, his only other losses over a 17 yr career came in 1954 (broken Jaw) 8yrs before winning the title and in 1969 (stopped while well ahead on the cards) 5yrs after losing the title.

Charles lost to Walcott in his prime but it should be noted that he was suffering from a muscular degenerative disease that should have ended his career.

Foreman lost to Young after losing his title and it could fairly be argued that Young fought the top Heavyweights of his day to a standstill ( Ali, Norton and Foreman)

So where does this leave Lennox... In my book he was a classy Champ who might have given any heavyweight in history a great fight. But unlike Ali, Louis, Holmes, Marciano and others who could win while having an off night. Lewis needed his "A" game. Without it he was an ordinary Heavyweight.

PittPanther · 02-08-2004, 01:25 PM

All in all, I think it's hard not to rate Lewis in the top 15 of all time.

Sugar says 12, Hawke says somewhere around there, I would probably have to agree; Lewis should be somewhere in the top 15.

Top 10---harder to make the case.

Top 5---I don't see it.

02-07-2004, 07:20 AM	#41
wildhawke11 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: united kingdom Posts: 1,952	60s Short and Sweet, your 100% on. Maybe if he had been born in USA, smashed up a few cars, had a few fights outside the ring, insulted all, but you get the picture he would have appealed a little better to most. __________________ Always in our Hearts - RIP Danny 1939 - 2010

02-07-2004, 09:26 AM	#42
PittPanther All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 1,235	Or maybe if he didn't get his clocked cleaned by Ollie McCall and Hasim Rachman. . . I'm sure this kind of competiton would have knocked out every all time great on your personal list of the best heavies. Playing devil's advocate here, if Lewis is to be ranked among the top heavies of all time, please point to a defining fight or moment in his career that could sell others on your viewpoint. Then you might quell the dissenters----until then, you will always hear the argument "he was good, not great." __________________ Commitment Teamwork Pride Hail to Pitt! Last edited by PittPanther; 02-07-2004 at 11:17 AM.

02-08-2004, 01:25 PM	#45
PittPanther All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 1,235	All in all, I think it's hard not to rate Lewis in the top 15 of all time. Sugar says 12, Hawke says somewhere around there, I would probably have to agree; Lewis should be somewhere in the top 15. Top 10---harder to make the case. Top 5---I don't see it. __________________ Commitment Teamwork Pride Hail to Pitt! Last edited by PittPanther; 02-08-2004 at 01:29 PM.

02-07-2004, 11:16 AM	#43
GDE Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Nancy,KY Posts: 193	Athletics in general are being ruined by money. You no longer get the real determination to play the game. You get no loyalty to the fans. You only get spoiled rich people. They don't care about the product that is put on display as long as they get paid.

02-08-2004, 05:45 AM	#44
Nocramj Bat Boy Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4	My two cents!!! When it's all said and done, I liked Lennox as the heavyweight champion. He didn't get arrested (tyson, Bowe, neon Leon, Dokes, Moorer), He didn't father half a dozen kids with a bunch of different women ( Evander), hasn't need to be commited for psyco eval (Bruno, Douglas, McCall, Foreman, Bowe again, Tate and prob Iron Mike) and wasn't a drug addict ( Thomas, McCall, Leon again) And never showed up grossly out of shape to defend his title, (Tubbs, Witherspoon, Douglas) All in all he carried the title with more dignity that anyone since Larry Holmes and a possibly a 40 something George Foreman. But one thing will always bother me when it comes to Lewis and Tyson. What great Heavyweight can claim to have been beaten by club fighters or fringe contenders in their prime ( Douglas for Tyson and McCall / Rachman for Lewis ) Ali was 36 and showing signs of Parkinsons when Spinks got him. Louis, Tunney, Marciano, Dempsey, Jack Johnson, Frazier. As disgracful as liston's fights against Ali were, his only other losses over a 17 yr career came in 1954 (broken Jaw) 8yrs before winning the title and in 1969 (stopped while well ahead on the cards) 5yrs after losing the title. Charles lost to Walcott in his prime but it should be noted that he was suffering from a muscular degenerative disease that should have ended his career. Foreman lost to Young after losing his title and it could fairly be argued that Young fought the top Heavyweights of his day to a standstill ( Ali, Norton and Foreman) So where does this leave Lennox... In my book he was a classy Champ who might have given any heavyweight in history a great fight. But unlike Ali, Louis, Holmes, Marciano and others who could win while having an off night. Lewis needed his "A" game. Without it he was an ordinary Heavyweight.