Next Fix Build - Estimated Date - This one is not stable enough to play

[kidd_05_u2]

To me, this is the best OOTP has ever been at release, and it is in a much better state than OOTP26 after the final patch.

[DanKreider]

This game was $64.99 in my local currency at release. While I respect it is a smaller development team, and that some bugs are expected in any release, the past couple versions of this game have been disappointing.

It compounds with little to no communication or updates from the developers about things that a lot of us are concerned about (ie. Online Leagues). While the team of dev's may be small, their asking price is not, so I feel it is well within my rights to ask for better, without being attacked by the white knight community.

Many of you I recognize and respect (guys like Orcin, Rain King, Sweed, Iow, etc) and of course you answered in a measured way, which is fine, it is okay to disagree.

We all love this game to varying degrees, and putting some heat on the developers when they deliver a suboptimal release (in my opinion anyhow) should be okay to do without being told to shut up.

[BusterKing]

Best release since 2002.

[MK_735]

Originally Posted by DanKreider

It compounds with little to no communication or updates from the developers about things that a lot of us are concerned about (ie. Online Leagues). While the team of dev's may be small, their asking price is not, so I feel it is well within my rights to ask for better, without being attacked by the white knight community.

Do the devs pick the price or do their bosses at com2us do?

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Rain King

The Dev team is very small and also does not have these hours.

Games like OOTP simply would not exist and/or would have greatly diminished feature sets if they were expected to come out completely bug free. This is part of the territory for this type of game.

We have four devs, along with six support staff, making essentially three games.

We work nights and weekends for months, and run hundreds of tests as well as analyze saves from the beta testers.

If we cared about the game less and were more content to not both attempt to fix bugs from previous years and to add impactful new features, it would be much easier to release a bugless version at launch.

This is a VERY complex and technical game, and it's frankly astonishing that we can do what we do with as small a team as we have.

Some years though, some things get missed for whatever reason.

Since our small team is always fixing and tweaking and polishing stuff up to the last minute, sometime last minute fixes break stuff somewhere else.

Sometimes, there's just no one on the dev or beta teams that is opening in a specific OS environment where specific bugs only crop up (which seems to be the case with a lot of Macs bugs this year occurring only on specific Mac OS versions).

Sometimes other bugs are just not visible until they get into a public testing environment where you have a lot more data points, and a lot more folks on a lot more different hardware, running a lot more different sims and doing things in a different way than the small beta and dev groups might do them.

Sometimes stuff happens like this year, completely out of our control where Mac released a new version of their OS a week before the game releases, that breaks stuff that was working before.

All that being said, it's super unhelpful to act like something minor like the coaches bug is some sort of game-breaking issue that makes the game unplayable. This is just not true.

Regardless, we'll continue working on all the bugs that have been reported, fixing and polishing stuff up, prioritizing the most impactful things.

We'll likely have at least one and likely two new builds this week and will continue to regularly put out new patches until things are working well for everyone and the biggest issues are fixed. Then we'll take a little breather, actually sleep for eight hours and have a couple days off for the first time in months, and then go back to tweaking and working on things even more.

[markprior22]

This team has done a fantastic job transitioning from Markus. It's too bad that so many people have to be extremely negative...very angry and lashing out when that does nothing to help move things forward. Today's Headline: GAME WILL NEVER BE PERFECT!

[millhousebc]

Well said Lukas.......hitting the like button...if it was still here

[Rain King]

Thank you, Lukas!

[cheddah]

Originally Posted by DanKreider

While the team of dev's may be small, their asking price is not, so I feel it is well within my rights to ask for better, without being attacked by the white knight community.

It's not white knighting or glazing or whatever if devs and other posters ask for helpful and productive criticism, asking for specifics and evidence and to follow a bug reporting process instead of "durrr, there are numerous bugs, don't play this".

You can have expectations for the game, or anything in life, but you're going to have a better shot of having them fulfilled if you can explain them fully so the other person understands what they have to do, and then you give those people an opportunity to close any gaps that exist.

And, if you can't do that, your other option is to speak with your wallet.

[cheddah]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

We'll likely have at least one and likely two new builds this week and will continue to regularly put out new patches until things are working well for everyone and the biggest issues are fixed. Then we'll take a little breather, actually sleep for eight hours and have a couple days off for the first time in months, and then go back to tweaking and working on things even more.

Thanks, Lukas and team! Your efforts are appreciated. Most of us know you want to do a good job - hopefully you can ignore the rest.

[Karl Pagel Blues]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

This is a VERY complex and technical game, and it's frankly astonishing that we can do what we do with as small a team as we have.

Thank you, Lukas. That message (or something similar) should also be posted as a sticky at the top of the forum.

[davetarzana]

[insult snipped]

[Bill Veeck]

Thank you, Lukas for all your efforts

Remarkable what is accomplished by such a small staff

[malor]

Originally Posted by Benz0709

If you were a newbie and bought this game for the first time you wouldn't even notice majority of the things people are citing as game breaking. Not to downplay the issues, they all should be fixed. But overall, the immersive experience is still there.

Veterans of the series who notice the small things, the bigger gripe is why are things broken that ultimately haven't changed and worked before. And there is a lot more than normal at release, even given the slow deterioration of game testing as a whole.

Not true. I've bought other games new. When I discovered many bugs, the game nose dived on my interest list and I was not back for the DLC release even after they fixed the bugs. Trust was lost and I did not want to spend my time and money identifying bugs for their team. With how Steam is now, no one should be looking to purchase any new games from a new developer. There are way too many that deploy broken and stay that way. Wait six months and see how they handle bug fixes.

I know OOTP dev team is small, but that is not an excuse. You need to stop making changing at least a month before a big release and test your asses off your planned deployment version. Deploying a broken version on first yearly release kills a lot of interest from new players and those of old who are growing tired of the constant issues with unstable releases.

I love the game, it's why I'm here and it's why I'm arguing so hard for better results. Slow down and get it correct. Don't rush to the finish line and deploy a broken application.

[zappa1]

This is the only baseball game that I buy continuously year after year. To me it's just the best you can get. I had one super minor problem and it was fixed right in the first patch. And since I've gotten rid of onedrive, I've not had one crash. Fingers crossed. Even the last version hasn't crashed anymore.

[HafTaLuvIt]

Doing a lot with a small staff is commendable. There are people here who seem to prefer doing less and doing it better. Maybe try that next year?

[malor]

Originally Posted by MK_735

Your expectations are frankly silly and void of the knowledge (and respect) about game development. Some issues can be too complex to fix in just 3 days. Some issues may need a "fix" to be released to the public to actually see if it was a fix. That's the reality of game development especially with a complex simulation game. You can test for hours but there is no better tester than the thousands who buy the game. Do they want "game breaking" bugs? No. But I've already explained how this could occur.

At the end of day, every launch we've had there's always been issues. Some years are better than others. BUT it would irresponsible to suggest they don't bust their ass post launch and fix as many bugs and issues as possible. And you know why they do that? Because they care.

I'm not saying you should shut up but chill out with the insults to the development team. I'm not thrilled with some of the issues in the game myself. However, as someone who has been playing these games since 15 the devs have gained my trust because I've seen them push out patches within days of launch. I've seen them put in the work immediately after launch to fix the issues in the games.

Agreed on some of this, but the reality is for most players, you only get one shot to hook them and keep them. Those us that have been playing for 10+ years keep coming back and will, although I will wait to save money next year based on current status.

I'm pointing out that past support issues are costing them customers. At some point, the loss of those customers will be enough to make them say the cost/income is not there anymore to keep making the game. I don't want that to happen. I want a new version every year. To keep players coming back, you need to deliver quality every time, not just on the last version of the year.

[malor]

Originally Posted by Rain King

You are essentially proving the point here. Orcin isn't getting paid to test, he is volunteering his time. While, yes, those of us who test are happy to donate some time...most don't have the dozens of hours that you mention and particularly do not necessarily have them exactly at the moment the Devs need them. The Dev team is very small and also does not have these hours.

Games like OOTP simply would not exist and/or would have greatly diminished feature sets if they were expected to come out completely bug free. This is part of the territory for this type of game.

Thank you for confirming my point. The Devs need to slow down and not rush stuff to release. For this game, testing is the major activity all the time. Changes are probably not that difficult to design and implement, but integrating them with the rest of the game and making sure nothing breaks is going to be longer than the code changes.

[HafTaLuvIt]

Stockholm Syndrome?

[Ratbelly]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

We have four devs, along with six support staff, making essentially three games.

We work nights and weekends for months, and run hundreds of tests as well as analyze saves from the beta testers.

If we cared about the game less and were more content to not both attempt to fix bugs from previous years and to add impactful new features, it would be much easier to release a bugless version at launch.

This is a VERY complex and technical game, and it's frankly astonishing that we can do what we do with as small a team as we have.

Some years though, some things get missed for whatever reason.

Since our small team is always fixing and tweaking and polishing stuff up to the last minute, sometime last minute fixes break stuff somewhere else.

Sometimes, there's just no one on the dev or beta teams that is opening in a specific OS environment where specific bugs only crop up (which seems to be the case with a lot of Macs bugs this year occurring only on specific Mac OS versions).

Sometimes other bugs are just not visible until they get into a public testing environment where you have a lot more data points, and a lot more folks on a lot more different hardware, running a lot more different sims and doing things in a different way than the small beta and dev groups might do them.

Sometimes stuff happens like this year, completely out of our control where Mac released a new version of their OS a week before the game releases, that breaks stuff that was working before.

All that being said, it's super unhelpful to act like something minor like the coaches bug is some sort of game-breaking issue that makes the game unplayable. This is just not true.

Regardless, we'll continue working on all the bugs that have been reported, fixing and polishing stuff up, prioritizing the most impactful things.

We'll likely have at least one and likely two new builds this week and will continue to regularly put out new patches until things are working well for everyone and the biggest issues are fixed. Then we'll take a little breather, actually sleep for eight hours and have a couple days off for the first time in months, and then go back to tweaking and working on things even more.

You guys have the best in class sim. Bravo!

I know that guys always respond and take care of business that is why it is a day 1 buy even if I hold off for a while while you guys get the fixes in. My cost per hour playing has got to be like .01 penny per hour spent