The InteGREATed Mod: Stars of the Negro Leagues in the MLB

[congokurtz]

Are there supposed to be two Philadelphia Athletics in the 1882 season after the 1881 expansion?

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by congokurtz

Are there supposed to be two Philadelphia Athletics in the 1882 season after the 1881 expansion?

It was debated. If we were to change it to Quakers for that one season there were too many files that need to be renamed or changed and more opportunities to mess up something. To not hold the mod back forever as the OOTP 25 cycle was speeding by, it was just easier to let it go. So if you like the possibility of having a Philadelphia Athletics vs Philadelphia Athletics World Series for that one season… here’s a chance for it.

It can be looked at again later.

[congokurtz]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

It was debated. If we were to change it to Quakers for that one season there were too many files that need to be renamed or changed and more opportunities to mess up something. To not hold the mod back forever as the OOTP 25 cycle was speeding by, it was just easier to let it go. So if you like the possibility of having a Philadelphia Athletics vs Philadelphia Athletics World Series for that one season… here’s a chance for it.

It can be looked at again later.

That’s good to know. I just wanted to make sure it wasn’t an error. Now back to enjoying this awesome database of integrated baseball you guys created!

[djc]

A little late to the party here.
I have been working with Erick’s NeL MLE data with Dave Koch’s PC baseball
https://donsbaseballreplay.com/wp/19...ason-3-replay/
Is my current project where I am actually integrating Negro league players into the MLB. Note I have other projects here https://donsbaseballreplay.com/
I saw something on steam about NeL MLEs and a mod for OOTP 25! Very interested in trying that out.
Is there documentation on the process?

[djc]

I uploaded a screen shot not sure it worked

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by djc

Is there documentation on the process?

Welcome to the party. On Steam, subscribe to the mod. Then go to the Workshop on the Start Screen and navigate to it and make sure the mod downloads and installs. In addition to the new stats folder (and some bells & whistles like some logos, uniforms, caps and ballparks for the NeL teams) the mod will install a folder called "documents". There is a manual in there on how to navigate a new game to use the new histroical.database.odb where mod lives.

To get to that doc folder, go to that Settings button on the Start Screen, when the pop-up comes up, go to Troubleshooting, then Open folder with customizable data button, then look for "documents". Not every setting in there needs to be followed but remember:

To turn on and off the color line in the correct years (it comes on after 1994 and off after 1946), you allow for generous expansion draft assumptions if you start before 1911, and you use a fantasy draft to start a season after 1911 (and use the amateur draft always). The pdf manual talks about those critical factors (and a ton of more nuanced stuff).

[djc]

Thank you for the information. I do have one question about OOTP in general. The last time I played it was when Negro League players were first introduced to the game. One problem I was incountering was the game created all these fictitious players. Is there a way to not have them created? I believe they were created to fill minor league clubs, maybe?

One thing I did like was the fact most Negro League players were sent to the minors. My research on the matter would have only about 20-25% of the Negro League players being able to compete with the MLB players.

I feel that is pretty realistic since according to SABR the highest percentage of black players after 1947 was about 18.7%.

Thanks for the details.

PS. I'm very familar with Eric's work on the Hall of Miller and Eric. One thing I was not sure of was the relief pitchers? For instance on seamheads
https://www.seamheads.com/NegroLgs/o...8&tab=bypos_at
they list Hilton Smith as a relief pitcher. Not sure if anyone's Negro League database (OOTP, SOM, Dave Koch etc.) considers the fact that maybe some of the Negro League pitchers were relievers?
Anyway I am rambling ...

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by djc

Thank you for the information. I do have one question about OOTP in general. The last time I played it was when Negro League players were first introduced to the game. One problem I was incountering was the game created all these fictitious players. Is there a way to not have them created? I believe they were created to fill minor league clubs, maybe?

One thing I did like was the fact most Negro League players were sent to the minors. My research on the matter would have only about 20-25% of the Negro League players being able to compete with the MLB players.

I feel that is pretty realistic since according to SABR the highest percentage of black players after 1947 was about 18.7%.

Thanks for the details.

PS. I'm very familar with Eric's work on the Hall of Miller and Eric. One thing I was not sure of was the relief pitchers? For instance on seamheads
https://www.seamheads.com/NegroLgs/o...8&tab=bypos_at
they list Hilton Smith as a relief pitcher. Not sure if anyone's Negro League database (OOTP, SOM, Dave Koch etc.) considers the fact that maybe some of the Negro League pitchers were relievers?
Anyway I am rambling ...

It is recommended that you use the mod without real minors turned on. Otherwise, you will get duplicates. We added Eric's NeL players to the MLB database. In general, you don't need fictional players in any real Minors scenario. You can use "ghost players" to in-fill the minor league rosters with a shortfall of players. Just need to toggle that option in settings.

We took the top players from Eric's MLEs, added teams in 1911 to support the additional talent to keep the game balanced and did all of this by editing the game files. All told, it was over 200 players we added or adjusted (for example adding two years to Jackie before he debuted w/ Brooklyn). So, anyway, by editing the MLB files you can have the league evolve from year-to-year because you tricked the game use your NeL info alongside the AL/NL data it has... and thus no need to micro-manage it. If you are the micro-managing type though, Garlon has by-year preferences for various settings you can review. Those are in the manual.

Most of the pitchers added are starters. We researched pitch repertoires where available to even try to get those correct where we could. Of course, there were not true relievers back then anyway, just the non-starters. Some will certainly end up as those. Or they will push someone else to be. Depends what team they end up on.

[Makonnen]

@djc

Your % is probably a little low--remember, the color line didn't just bar black players, but all non-white groups. But hitting that mark isn't the goal of this mod, which is focused on the 200ish *best* players, spread over 4 decades. None of these players should be minor leaguers.

If you want that 30% or whatever mark, and players who are truly MLB borderline, you'll have to wait for i9s to grind through completion.

[Garlon]

In a recent update to OOTP they pushed out an era_ballaparks file and the mod version that supports the NeL teams got overwritten.

You should reinstall the custom version to support the mod, otherwise OOTP has a bug that causes any mismatched ballparks to load with impossible ballpark factors of 0.500.

I suggest you check your NeL teams in your games to see if this is an issue.

[darkcloud4579]

Rad will check it out

[djc]

Thanks for the mod played from 1893 to the 1911 expansion draft so far. I let the game draft players each year so Ty Cobb is a Red Sox along with Eddie Collins. Joe Jackson is a Rustler etc. Wasn't sure if I wanted the 1911 expansion teams to include black players only? Note since I started in 1893, Grant Johnson was drafted by the Brooklyn club. Should he be unprotected by Brooklyn to picked up by the Barons for example? By the way Johnson led the league in homers in 1900 and RBI in 1909. Pretty cool. Another thing to think about if the Birmingham club is not a black only club shouldn't they drop the black and become the Birmingham Barons? After all there is not enough black players in 1911 to fill the 4 clubs rosters? If my count is correct there is only 47 NeL players as of 1911.

[LansdowneSt]

Glad you had fun with it, djc! 47 sounds about right for 1911. The Negro National League wasn't founded until 1920, but we wanted some of the teams to appear as soon as it was practical to do so. Pre-1920 is, after all, where Rube Foster, Pete Hill, Oscar Charleston, Smokey Joe Williams and others were at their peak. I suppose you are right with regard to the Black Barons, but once an identify is established, it tends to stick (see Indians and Braves!). But if you prefer to change that, go to the mod's stats folder and look for the Teams.csv. You should be able to change the name there at a year of your choosing. You'd need to grab different logos and unis and resave them without the _black in there for them to auto load. But because a White Sox minor league team took on the BB name means that the mod boards probably have such logos and unis out there already. Make sure not to make too many players protected in the 1911 expansion draft. We called that out in the pdf that accompanied the mod (it's in a folder called documents that the mod installed). Thanks again for the feedback!

[djc]

Yeah I caught the amount of protected players and adjusted.

[djc]

While I have you online I noticed the help resources popup. I can't seem to get rid of it. The message reads, This screen does not have a tutorial. However you can find help ... with three links... But when I click the Got It! button nothing happens have to end task and restart program.

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by djc

While I have you online I noticed the help resources popup. I can't seem to get rid of it. The message reads, This screen does not have a tutorial. However you can find help ... with three links... But when I click the Got It! button nothing happens have to end task and restart program.

That's weird. I've never seen a tutorial pop-up in any Historical Game be it using a modified database or not. The only thing I can think of is if the NeL modded game was begun in tutorial mode instead of historical (the submenu under "New Game"). I've never used tutorial mode so I.ve never seen pop-ups like that in any game. I wonder if there is a way in the game or league settings to turn off tutorials in the event that's the mode that accidently elected when the game started. Sorry, I wish I could help more.

[djc]

New update just screwed up my replay, Willie Keeler just got 387 hits in 881 at bats in one season!

[LansdowneSt]

Check the ballpark he is in. If the patch saved over the era_ballparks file, it might wipe out the neutral factors of the NeL parks. Drag the one from the mod back into the database folder if that was the cause. Everything else with the mod is tucked safely in the stats folder. I can’t think of anything else that would cause such an output. How did his teammates fare?

[djc]

question how do i edit a played season. that is wonky?

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by djc

question how do i edit a played season. that is wonky?

I'm not sure there is a way to export player stats and reimport them.