2024 WNBA Thread

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Sweed

How many of those were passes that should have been caught? To college women not WNBA pros?

I'd live with Magic hitting Kurt Rambis in the face with a pass he's not ready for before asking him to not make that pass. I'll do the same for Clark.

You're right there are no pushovers. Her teammates are professionals, the best of the best. So as professionals her teammates will have to learn to be ready, it's already happening. There will also be errant passes, it's part of her game where she tries to make plays others might not. The good will far outweigh the bad.

Yup. I mean, this was a last-place team that this year starts one rookie and three 2nd-year players. Five players are in their first year with the team. As they said on last night's broadcast, this team has been together for 22 days (so probably 14 days prior to their opening game). And then their first four games were against two of the top teams in the A... Gotta give a young team some time...

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by pilight

They're not. That's decades old misinformation.

Then post the financial data which supports your position. You do have evidence to provide, yes? And not just unsubstantiated insistence?

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Perhaps the WNBA will finally turn a profit and no longer have to rely on the largesse of the NBA to survive.

From NBC:

Last year, a Bloomberg News report found the WNBA was projected to make $180 million to $200 million for the 2023 season.

I cannot imagine not turning a massive profit with that level of revenue.

Edit. HARD salary cap per team at $1.5 million. Twelve teams, so $18M. With salaries being just TEN PERCENT of revenue, where's the money going??

[pilight]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Then post the financial data which supports your position. You do have evidence to provide, yes? And not just unsubstantiated insistence?

I will when you do

[thehef]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

From NBC:

"Last year, a Bloomberg News report found the WNBA was projected to make $180 million to $200 million for the 2023 season."

I cannot imagine not turning a massive profit with that level of revenue.

Edit. HARD salary cap per team at $1.5 million. Twelve teams, so $18M. With salaries being just TEN PERCENT of revenue, where's the money going??

Interesting. I wonder if the Bloomberg report meant $180-$200m in revenue - as you interpreted it - or actual profit. If it's revenue, then I can believe that. It appears the WNBA gets around $60m annually from TV deals, and probably around $80m from attendance (a rough calc: 1.6m attendance in 2023 at an avg ticket price of $50). So $60m + $80m = $140m, and the other $40-$60m would, I suppose, be from endorsement deals... Or something like that...

In the end, though, it's probably impossible to even accurately estimate the WNBA's bottom line because of its being so intertwined with the NBA. With some research we could probably come up with good estimates on the costs of team staff, travel, uniforms, care & wellness for players, etc... But when it comes to things like marketing & PR, shared facilities, legal fees, technology... it's not really possible to even semi-accurately guess how much of that is actually covered by the NBA and to what degree.

Given all of that, if I had to guess, I'd say that the WNBA is somewhere in the vicinity of breakeven, but that given the intertwinement of certain expenses, if it were cut completely loose from the NBA, it would probably be in the red a bit. But not to the degree where it would have to fold. It's probably on an upward trajectory to where it'd be worth it to stay the course, perhaps with some adjustments. It's clearly an investment by the NBA, and deemed worth it for the long-term... I'm guessing it's something like for every five bucks the NBA spends on the WNBA, it increases the NBA's revenue by six bucks. IOW, "my muffler shop on its own costs me a bit more than it brings in, but it's existence sure helps my auto repair shop bring in more money."

[monkeyman576]

Chat GPT:
In terms of revenue, the WNBA was projected to generate between $180 million and $200 million in 2023, showing a positive trend from previous years. Despite these revenues, the league historically has not turned a profit, often operating at a loss of around $10 million annually​ (Sportskeeda)​​ (Just Women's Sports)​.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

I cannot imagine not turning a massive profit with that level of revenue.

Projections are not final figures. Projections are often wrong.

Originally Posted by dsvitak

Edit. HARD salary cap per team at $1.5 million. Twelve teams, so $18M. With salaries being just TEN PERCENT of revenue, where's the money going??

Arena, travel, administration, sales, marketing, etc. Salaries might be relatively low precisely because the other expenses take up so much of the revenue.

[monkeyman576]

Arena rentals, travel, advertisitng.

[pilight]

I don't understand why there's such a fixation on the profitability of the WNBA anyway. Even minor men's leagues don't get that kind of treatment. What does it matter whether it is profitable?

[monkeyman576]

Originally Posted by pilight

I don't understand why there's such a fixation on the profitability of the WNBA anyway. Even minor men's leagues don't get that kind of treatment. What does it matter whether it is profitable?

Because some are asking for "equal pay".

[pilight]

Originally Posted by monkeyman576

Because some are asking for "equal pay".

They are? Who asked for that?

[Boomcoach]

Originally Posted by pilight

They are? Who asked for that?

I have seen memes bemoaning the pay difference, but don't know that I have seen any individuals asking for it, at least ones who matter. Nation of 330 million people, I am sure someone, somewhere has demanded it.

[monkeyman576]

I think the US Vice President matters?

https://mynbc15.com/news/nation-worl...iana-fever-nba

[thehef]

Originally Posted by monkeyman576

I think the US Vice President matters?

https://mynbc15.com/news/nation-worl...iana-fever-nba

Debatable (And not just this particular VP.)

At any rate, the content of the linked article pretty much shreds the veep's argument (while also supporting the contention that the WNBA loses money).

[monkeyman576]

Well considering how old the current president is this VP matters more than normal I think.

[pilight]

Originally Posted by monkeyman576

I think the US Vice President matters?

https://mynbc15.com/news/nation-worl...iana-fever-nba

I don't think her opinion on sports matters count for much, and any article that quotes Clay Travis talking about women is immediately suspect.

And even then, Harris isn't suggesting "equal pay".

[thehef]

Originally Posted by pilight

.

And even then, Harris isn't suggesting "equal pay".

True. She was calling for "fair" pay, which is certainly open to interpretation. And is a good answer to the question about why people are wondering in this thread about whether the WNBA turns a profit. A fair question might be, "what is fair pay for working in an entertainment profession for a business that may not be profitable?" (And I say this from the perspective that I hope Caitlin Clark leads to more recognition and popularity - and therefore earnings - for the whole WNBA. Her presence has reminded me that there are some really good players in the league, including some fun ones to root both for and against.)

And then there was an article elsewhere today (I think it was either by or quoting race-baiting clown Jamele Hill) discussing WNBA players' salaries - not touching on sexism but on alleged anti-black and anti-lgbt sentiment - complaining that most don't make as much as Caitlin and that's why Britney Griner was in Russia. No, that's not why Griner was in Russia. She signed a $1m endorsement deal with Nike upon being drafted in 2017, and then up to the time of her Russia arrest, she had made around $760k in WNBA earnings. She surely had other (probably lesser but not insignificant) endorsement deals. So without counting ANY of her earnings from Russia, she still had - to that point - a five-year run of total earnings that placed her well within the definition of a comfortable lifestyle. And then if you factor in her overseas earnings to that point (of her arrest), she had probably made - in that five-year stretch - well over $7 million. I don't at all begrudge her or any other athlete trying to earn as much as they can*. But make no mistake, she was in Russia NOT because WNBA salaries are so low and - as the article claimed - she had no other choice. (It's not like it was "earn money in Russia or it's food stamps to feed the family, and next month's rent is yet-to-be-found"). She was playing ball in Russia because she wanted even more money, and pro ball in Russia paid a lot more. It was a choice. (And there are other overseas women's basketball leagues; perhaps the Ruskies paid more, but she had other, probably safer, options to augment her income with offseason money.)

*To be clear, if I can go to Russia in my business' offseason and make a cool & easy million, I'm going. I'll take the risk that I can fly under Vlad's radar. Just to be safe, though, I probably wouldn't bring any weed with me, just to lessen the chances of getting thrown in the clink

[pilight]

The WNBA is expanding to Toronto

[Cobra Mgr]

I don't get all of this whining & crying every tie someone gets physical w/Clark.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I don't get all of this whining & crying every tie someone gets physical w/Clark.

She wasn't bumped while going for a rebound.

The clock was stopped, and she was ASSAULTED, and smashed to the ground.

I know you're a huge basketball fan..and if you saw the video, and don't think that this was a Flagrant 1, then you're biased.

Upgraded to a Flagrant 1, because it was 100% obvious. NAILED IT!