Ghostrunner on 2nd or 12-Inning Ties?

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I call them ghost runners because that’s what we called them when we played sandlot ball. Ghost runner on second base!

I call them fake runners because that's what they are. Fake runners on second base!

[Carplos]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I call them ghost runners because that’s what we called them when we played sandlot ball. Ghost runner on second base!

They were ghost runners because no one was actually on the base, though.

[Carplos]

The runner on 2nd doesn't bother me at this point, but if forced to choose between the two, I'd rather them just do ties.

[Brad K]

Goofy rules inconsistent with the game are the mark of second rate sports.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Goofy rules inconsistent with the game are the mark of second rate sports.

There was a time this statement applied to the three point line.

[Westheim]

I'm still mad NASCAR went to the "playoff" system. I will grumble over the fake runner well into the 2040s ....!

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Sweed

There was a time this statement applied to the three point line.

Indeed, there are people to this day who think the 3 point line has "ruined" the NBA. To me, it's kind of had the opposite effect - no longer is the inside clogged with big men, the game is much more exciting because everyone on the court can, you know, play basketball, and the average height in the league has actually gone down by a couple inches in the past decade or so - but not everyone agrees with me, I guess.

Like I said, and with the caveat that I don't play with the ghost runner rule on or ties because my league is set in 1971 and neither of those were in effect, I think this is legitimately an issue that baseball has and I'm glad that something was done to fix it. There are bigger issues, at least for me, but something needed to be done about the fact that games can be fun and exciting for 9 and then... a boring slog for another 11 - or infinite innings in theory! - while everyone gets progressively more and more tired and so on. I kind of hate it in OOTP and while I don't hate it so much when listening to a game because I'm usually doing other things at the time, I'd sure hate it if I was in the stadium, which is kind of a big issue for a league that's hemorrhaging fans.

[OmahaBaseball]

Originally Posted by Carplos

They were ghost runners because no one was actually on the base, though.

Yes, this is why I like the term "Zombie Runner" rather than the "Ghost Runner" term we used when I was a kid.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Sweed

There was a time this statement applied to the three point line.

Only because the NBA didn't think of it!!!

(I grew up watching Roger Brown and Mel Daniels.)

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Only because the NBA didn't think of it!!!

(I grew up watching Roger Brown and Mel Daniels.)

Had a friend in HS that loved the ABA and the Pacers. His dad would take him to a game every year, this is from western Iowa, and allow him to bring one friend. I went to this game and saw Dr. J. https://www.basketball-reference.com...601030INA.html

Sat in the 6th row, center court, and IIRC the tickets were around $10 (?). My Dad was pissed I spent that much to "just go to a ballgame". But then he thought us spending $7.50 for the most expensive box seats at a Twins game was dumb too.

Too bad it was the year after George McGinnis had moved on. Brown and Daniels were also gone. They did have Don Buse and Len Elmore. With Big Mac gone my friend's new favorite player was Darnell Hillman.

[Ty Cobb]

at Cobo, from up in the nosebleed deck. Sixers destroyed the pi**tons. Only NBA game I've ever been to, or now care to go to. It was magic.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Had a friend in HS that loved the ABA and the Pacers. His dad would take him to a game every year, this is from western Iowa, and allow him to bring one friend. I went to this game and saw Dr. J. https://www.basketball-reference.com...601030INA.html

Sat in the 6th row, center court, and IIRC the tickets were around $10 (?). My Dad was pissed I spent that much to "just go to a ballgame". But then he thought us spending $7.50 for the most expensive box seats at a Twins game was dumb too.

Too bad it was the year after George McGinnis had moved on. Brown and Daniels were also gone. They did have Don Buse and Len Elmore. With Big Mac gone my friend's new favorite player was Darnell Hillman.

Yes good seats were reasonably priced. Irving was amazing.

Darnell Hillman had the best fro in sports, even better than Oscar Gamble's.

I got to go to some games free because in the Fairgrounds Coliseum they would have a local high school band and ours was invited several times. I don't recall them doing that in Market Square Arena.

When I was a kid in Indiana about every fourth house had a basketball goal and ALL the basketballs were red/white/blue.

[Brad K]

A short clip on Roger Brown

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DfO9N7t7cQ

Years later Bobby Leonard was asked what he said to players in he huddle when they called time out to arrange for the last shot to tie or win. He said the time outs were longer than he needed because all he said was get the ball to Roger.

[Brad K]

This just in. MLB will not institute ties. Its a concession to OOTP and other licensees who have told MLB that with ties its too hard to write code that will calculate the standings. Upon learning of the licensees difficulty with the issue of ties, the Unmentionable League will start them next year.

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by Brad K

This just in. MLB will not institute ties. Its a concession to OOTP and other licensees who have told MLB that with ties its too hard to write code that will calculate the standings. Upon learning of the licensees difficulty with the issue of ties, the Unmentionable League will start them next year.

Please kindly cite your sources for this. Doesn't sound like MLB to listen to reasonable objections.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Westheim

Please kindly cite your sources for this. Doesn't sound like MLB to listen to reasonable objections.

Shhhhhh. You'll tip off the conspiracy theorists that I'm making fun of them.

[Amazin69]

I choose "C", Death by Impalement.

This is the stupidest idea for a "solution" to a problem that doesn't exist. Somebody in another sport (I forget which) was talking up the ghost runner as "making sense in the regular season" because "you don't want to have to play 15 innings and screw up your roster", but he was glad it wasn't in the post-season, because it wasn't really baseball.

Hey, guess what? It's not really baseball in the regular season, either. Oh, some poor manager might have to cope with one long game mixed in with all the shorter ones. Hold me while I am completely unmoved by such a "tragedy", please.

Given that the continued presence of double-headers means that players are often scheduled to play 18 innings in a day, the handwringing about the occasional 14-inning game (or even the rare bird that is the 20-inning marathon) is stupid on an entirely different level. Go tell your problems to the starving children in [too many places]; I'm sure they'll be sympathetic.

[Syd Thrift]

Or, you know, go tell it to would be baseball fans who are turned off by the concept of a 6 hour long game. Like them or not, these are attempts to fix a real issue that the game has and kind of has had in some form since the 1930s. The NFL has a limit to overtime, after which point it declares a tie. Soccer and hockey leagues in both the US and overseas are comfortable with ties. The NBA has theoretically unlimited overtime but the high scoring nature of the game means that ties after regulation are very rare in the first place and multiple overtimes are even rarer: the record in the shot clock era is 5.

Only baseball still has/had this issue and it’s a classic case of people refusing to adapt to technology. Baseball had a clock prior to the 1930s.

[pilight]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

Given that the continued presence of double-headers means that players are often scheduled to play 18 innings in a day, the handwringing about the occasional 14-inning game (or even the rare bird that is the 20-inning marathon) is stupid on an entirely different level. Go tell your problems to the starving children in [too many places]; I'm sure they'll be sympathetic.

"Often"? There are three scheduled doubleheaders this year. Out of 2430 games on the schedule, six are scheduled as doubleheaders. That's less than 1/4 of 1% of all games, with 80% of teams having none.

In 2019, the last season before the adoption of the free runner, there were 23 games of 14+ innings.

[Amazin69]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Or, you know, go tell it to would be baseball fans who are turned off by the concept of a 6 hour long game..

As the next poster notes, in 2019, less than 1% of all games ran longer than 13 innings. So the idea that the prospect of a marathon was keeping the fans at home is somewhat dubious, I'd say. (Not to mention that there are plenty of fans such as myself, who love the idea of "free baseball".)

If, on those rare occasions when a classic of length ensues, some fans get tired and want to go home, do you know what happens then? THEY GO HOME. (And we Real Baseball Fans move into their seats for the rest of the night.) Those fans have no cause to complain, since they stayed as long as they wanted and saw as much baseball as they wanted. And the club doesn't have to give a refund on the tickets, so they're happy, too.

Long, long games almost never happen, and nobody has a reason to be upset by them. What exactly was the problem here?

(Or do you think we should chop all games to five innings, because Dodger "fans" arrive in the 3rd inning and leave in the 7th? The fact that the team plays longer than their patrons care to watch hasn't bothered that franchise for 65 years…and that happens every game, not 23 out of 2430.)