How to bring BABIP down - Page 3

LittleHurt81 · 07-22-2021, 04:55 PM

And then, this happens...

LittleHurt81 · 07-22-2021, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoOne

changeups are notorious flyball pitches, if not mistaken... maybe pitches that often 'hang' and get crushed? bad cb and chup get smoked harder than other pitches, i'd assume.

So, quality likely factor too... good enough 'flyball' pitch and it'll play well anywhere. I wouldn't worry about the >max guys' repertoire as much, for example.

look for a dominant pitch and highest overall stuff rating.. 50-60mov minimum... ~50 control minimum... if a vet shows these things don't cause problems with a history of results proving it, no problem to make exceptions.

start looking at babip ranking of pitchers at end of a season.. see if you find any correlation to pitches thrown or highest rated pitch etc... What pitches do well consistently in your league... wht pitches or overall stuff with seemingly lower ratings do well in your league -- more than 1 year flash in pans. Make some inferences. See if it works out.

I still think you rleagues BABip might be elevated... start checking result at end of year. May need to adjust some LTM. Up above .332 is 15th in league... that's relly high for middle of the pack. of couse, i didn't look at how many games were played.

My BABIP is .330 and we're last in the league at halfway. Seems normal...

I like the BABIP leaders suggestion. I am trying to understand all the different ratings that might affect performance. Could not have anticipated Kike Hernandez being this bad, but maybe its because so many other offensive guys haven't hit their mark or a few key guys have been injured.

If you saw my earlier post it seems like my offense is coming around. If we can get that rolling than this team will get closer to .500 (30-50, so long way to go). Don't know what to do with Stroman... Might have to make sure I pick a particluar catcher. This is the last time he pairs with Nunez.

THANKS ALL for feedback.

Dave Stieb II · 07-22-2021, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleHurt81

I decided on the Rockies because I live in Denver Area and hate their whole front office setup... Seeing if I could do better. AND no.

But you're right there are some real life factors and it seems the game being tipped too heavily towards defense that really makes it hard to win consistently. I am going to start at catcher and then work my way through the middle of the diamond. I think I have found a solution in Frelick (my '21 first rounder) in CF. Adames is just having a bad year at short, his ZR/Def Eff were much better in '21 & '22

Overall I view this as a challenge, but there are many days I want to cut and run...

I admire your sticktoitiveness and wish you the best moving forward.

LittleHurt81 · 07-22-2021, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Stieb II

I admire your sticktoitiveness and wish you the best moving forward.

An 11 run combeback will keep you interested... Not to mention 6 wins in a row! I want to get this team to 73 wins, which means I will have to be above .500 the 2nd half. I think this team can...

LittleHurt81 · 08-04-2021, 04:02 PM

Season's done... Looking at some offseason moves

LittleHurt81 · 08-04-2021, 04:05 PM

Zone rating slightly improved due to trading Sanchez at C and Rodgers at 2B; promoted Moreno and received McKinstry in Sanchez trade.

LittleHurt81 · 08-04-2021, 04:08 PM

Thinking about flipping McKinstry (and AAA 3B) for Polanco?!?

LittleHurt81 · 08-04-2021, 04:10 PM

Would be a huge all-around improvement at the position (Polanco was top 3 in MLB in ZR) and for the team.

I increased trade difficulty to 7 last offseason (admittedly I had it on average the previous 2) and still, this would be an INSANE return...

brotherblues · 08-06-2021, 02:43 PM

Ok man, I did a couple of seasons with the Rockies because your experience sounded interesting.

Two things I knew going in, but I guess I still somehow underestimated:

1. Coors effect is HUGE.
2. Being in the same division with the Padres and Dodgers has a big effect on all your stats accross the board, and of course on the bottom line of wins.

That said, I knew I was only gonna do a couple seasons, so I was very aggressive. I also turned injuries down a notch, just for the sake of reducing that variable in short term testing (and it's a league wide setting, so it doesn't give me an advantage). I still built the team with possible injuries in mind.

Also trade difficulty was at 9.

Onto roster building:

First thing I wanted was defense. Most of the guys on the roster were simply not gonna cut it, so I set out to find: 2 elite defenders at CF, 2 elite defenders at C, and 3 elite defenders at SS.

The Cardinals happened to have 2 of those fellas in Harrison Bader and Ali Sanchez, so I sent Daniel Bard and Trevor Story and called it a win.

With my starting catcher and CF in tow, I looked towards MIFs. Wanted a super rangy SS that didn't stink batting. Someone at 2.5 or 3 stars rating/potential with just the right traits but not so good as to be unattainable. Just like picking out a girl at a club. Adalberto Mondesi looked the part. Got him by sending Jon Gray, Brendan Rogers, Ryan McMahon, and a mid tier prospect. Expensive, but that SS is a crucial piece, and he had a few more years of arbitration, which gave me leeway for a reasonable extension. I'd have kept Rogers as my starting 2B (or even SS) if he'd had 10-15 more range. He didn't have it. Bye Rogers, hello Mondesi.

My core defense was in place. Still wanted another CF type, who'd be my starting RF and injury insurance for Bader. So I looked up rangy OFs with decent arms and Victor Robles popped out. Just the right amazing defense, and just enough "meh" at the plate to be both playable and affordable. My team needed him. My team got him.

Up next, 2 more great defensive MIFs. One to start at 2B, one as utility. Both as injury insurance for Mondesi. And there on the trading block was Orlando Arcia, practically being given away by the Brewers, so I said yes please and thank you. Starting 2B secured. Was cheaper than the utility IFer I went after (the slick fielding but powerless Stephen Alemais of the Pirates), for whom I had to cough up Sam Hilliard, 2 prospects, *and* cash.

I wanted an elite defensive backup catcher who could also be the starter in case of injury. There wasn't a great chance to get one immediately, but Mike Zunino looked like he'd be a FA the following offseason. So I held off (and eventually signed him as FA).

Anyway, that secured my most important defensive positions by year 1. I left 1B, 3B, DH, and LF to be guys that had already been in the organization so as to keep a bit of Rockies flavor (replaced 2 of them the next season though).

Next up, I wanted some sinker ballers at pitcher. KC had a pair of guys in Brad Keller and Brady Singer. They wanted an arm and a leg for them. So I had to get them in separate deals and sent several arms and legs. My formerly fat farm was thinning out fast and we still wanted at least 2 more SPs.

Thankfully the Marlins love to send good players packing, so Trevor Rogers and JJ Bleday came onboard for Cron, Romo, Sheffield, and Almonte. Now, this was 2020-2021 offseason version of Trevor Rogers, who didn't have great ratings or great potential. Same for Bleday. They developed though. Oh boy they did. I really wanted to hold on to Romo, but I wasn't GMing for long term here, so off to the tropics he went.

Still looking for another sinker baller (Rogers ain't got a sinker), I found Tanner Houck of the Red Sox, who quickly (well, next offseason) became formerly of the Red Sox. Sadly I had to include Fuentes in that deal, along with an awesome SS prospect that I would have loved to develop if I was in it for the long term.

Anyhow, that's the gist of how I built the team. Here's how it went down in year 2.

brotherblues · 08-06-2021, 04:32 PM

Couple of quick notes:

1. Left some wins out by totally ignoring the bullpen, and by sticking a rule 5 guy at 3B, also completely ignoring it for the rest of the season. Those 2 things probably meant around 6 wins... and they finished 6 games out of the WC.

2. Pitching BABIP was .289, good for 2nd best in the NL. That's where those elite defenders make their hay. Opponents still slugged, but hey, #5 in Starters ERA while playing half their games at Coors, with 4 guys who aren't exactly game breakers.

timmermac · 08-06-2021, 10:38 PM

Not the way I'd do a Rockies franchise. I would try to take advantage of Coors as much as possible and outslug opponents. Looking for multiple 30+ homer guys.

nymetsfan5 · 08-06-2021, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argonaut

Honestly for Coors I would still stick to regular defensive philosophy in OOTP.
Have a great C, SS, 2B, and CF defensively. Catcher Ability and IF/OF Range is king.
LF/RF I would still prioritize big bats, to take advantage of Coors offensively. Outscore your opponent.

Where I would look to change things up is the pitching staff. Focus on bigtime Stuff pitchers. Movement will be important too, should be at least 50. Strike guys out, keep the balls in play to a minimum. If you have great Catcher Ability you can sacrifice on Control a bit and pump up your Stuff.

On your last point, haven't tested this out but breaking pitches tend to be worse in Coors due to the altitude

ezpkns34 · 08-07-2021, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nymetsfan5

On your last point, haven't tested this out but breaking pitches tend to be worse in Coors due to the altitude

I'd be floored if they had that in the game though

brotherblues · 08-07-2021, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmermac

Not the way I'd do a Rockies franchise. I would try to take advantage of Coors as much as possible and outslug opponents. Looking for multiple 30+ homer guys.

The OP wanted to know if it was possible to bring BABIP down in Coors, and how, and that was the main thing we set out to accomplish (along with having the team be competitive).

I do agree I could have chased more offense. That would have been the focus in year 3, evaluating the corner IF positions, DH, and LF for more offense. Figured Welker, Vilade, and Bleday would progress towards that naturally. The 3B was trash and I should have sacked him before the all star break, but I was not looking at too much detail during the season.

I'll do Year 3 later when I get back home, just out of curiousity. Will try to get another bat and actually look at the bullpen in the offseason.

LittleHurt81 · 10-15-2021, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmermac

Not the way I'd do a Rockies franchise. I would try to take advantage of Coors as much as possible and outslug opponents. Looking for multiple 30+ homer guys.

That's essentially what I did in season 4. Minor upgrades at defense where I could, but tried to make sure I had power up and down the lineup. The result... 98 wins.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=331252

LittleHurt81 · 10-15-2021, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brotherblues

Couple of quick notes:

1. Left some wins out by totally ignoring the bullpen, and by sticking a rule 5 guy at 3B, also completely ignoring it for the rest of the season. Those 2 things probably meant around 6 wins... and they finished 6 games out of the WC.

2. Pitching BABIP was .289, good for 2nd best in the NL. That's where those elite defenders make their hay. Opponents still slugged, but hey, #5 in Starters ERA while playing half their games at Coors, with 4 guys who aren't exactly game breakers.

This is fascinating. I have a 70 OF Range CF coming up through my system and it will be interesting to see what impact he has on our defensive metrics and things like BABIP and ERA.

Sounds like you had really good success focusing on defense.

LittleHurt81 · 10-15-2021, 10:58 AM

I am re-visiting this thread because I have begun a new save with the LA Angels in a supposedly pitcher-friendly park. Granted, their staff is pretty terrible and I primarily used free agency to plug some holes, but my defense should be better than it is.

The thing that boggles my mind is my defensive metrics are still... terrible. It's not a hitters park, I don't have elite defenders, but when I compare myself to AL West rivals their metrics are far superior despite us having even ratings in things like IF/OR Range. I am going to give it a couple weeks (season time) since I iknow it is a small sample thus far, but curious to hear people's thoughts. I will also present some data here to talk over.

billyray1984 · 10-15-2021, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleHurt81

I am re-visiting this thread because I have begun a new save with the LA Angels in a supposedly pitcher-friendly park. Granted, their staff is pretty terrible and I primarily used free agency to plug some holes, but my defense should be better than it is.

The thing that boggles my mind is my defensive metrics are still... terrible. It's not a hitters park, I don't have elite defenders, but when I compare myself to AL West rivals their metrics are far superior despite us having even ratings in things like IF/OR Range. I am going to give it a couple weeks (season time) since I iknow it is a small sample thus far, but curious to hear people's thoughts. I will also present some data here to talk over.

Who is your catcher and what is his catcher ability rating ? Your catcher has a huge impact on how your pitchers perform and getting the best defensive guy you can behind the plate is probably the easiest and cheapest way to improve pitchers metrics by a mile.

Apart from realism or not wanting to pick up Ali Sanchez in every save, there's really no reason not to play a glove first guy at C.

LittleHurt81 · 10-15-2021, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billyray1984

Who is your catcher and what is his catcher ability rating ? Your catcher has a huge impact on how your pitchers perform and getting the best defensive guy you can behind the plate is probably the easiest and cheapest way to improve pitchers metrics by a mile.

Apart from realism or not wanting to pick up Ali Sanchez in every save, there's really no reason not to play a glove first guy at C.

Max Stassi C Ability 60
Min-ho Kang C Ability 55

Will definitely look to upgrade here to help. Even in the early part of the season with a small sample size Stassi's CERA is quite a bit lower (4.35 vs 5.43)

Syd Thrift · 10-15-2021, 01:19 PM

While catcher ability does have a big impact on pitching, those effects are largely baked into the 3 true outcomes: a good catcher will increase Ks and decrease BBs and HRs whereas a bad catcher will do the opposite. If you're looking to lower BABIP, it's SS and CF to the biggest extent, and then 2B, 3B, and RF in descending order.

07-22-2021, 04:55 PM	#41
LittleHurt81 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: Denver Posts: 161	And then, this happens... Attached Images

08-04-2021, 04:02 PM	#45
LittleHurt81 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: Denver Posts: 161	Season's done... Looking at some offseason moves Attached Images

08-04-2021, 04:05 PM	#46
LittleHurt81 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: Denver Posts: 161	Zone rating slightly improved due to trading Sanchez at C and Rodgers at 2B; promoted Moreno and received McKinstry in Sanchez trade. Attached Images

08-04-2021, 04:08 PM	#47
LittleHurt81 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: Denver Posts: 161	Thinking about flipping McKinstry (and AAA 3B) for Polanco?!? Attached Images

08-06-2021, 02:43 PM	#49
brotherblues All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2020 Posts: 658	Ok man, I did a couple of seasons with the Rockies because your experience sounded interesting. Two things I knew going in, but I guess I still somehow underestimated: 1. Coors effect is HUGE. 2. Being in the same division with the Padres and Dodgers has a big effect on all your stats accross the board, and of course on the bottom line of wins. That said, I knew I was only gonna do a couple seasons, so I was very aggressive. I also turned injuries down a notch, just for the sake of reducing that variable in short term testing (and it's a league wide setting, so it doesn't give me an advantage). I still built the team with possible injuries in mind. Also trade difficulty was at 9. Onto roster building: First thing I wanted was defense. Most of the guys on the roster were simply not gonna cut it, so I set out to find: 2 elite defenders at CF, 2 elite defenders at C, and 3 elite defenders at SS. The Cardinals happened to have 2 of those fellas in Harrison Bader and Ali Sanchez, so I sent Daniel Bard and Trevor Story and called it a win. With my starting catcher and CF in tow, I looked towards MIFs. Wanted a super rangy SS that didn't stink batting. Someone at 2.5 or 3 stars rating/potential with just the right traits but not so good as to be unattainable. Just like picking out a girl at a club. Adalberto Mondesi looked the part. Got him by sending Jon Gray, Brendan Rogers, Ryan McMahon, and a mid tier prospect. Expensive, but that SS is a crucial piece, and he had a few more years of arbitration, which gave me leeway for a reasonable extension. I'd have kept Rogers as my starting 2B (or even SS) if he'd had 10-15 more range. He didn't have it. Bye Rogers, hello Mondesi. My core defense was in place. Still wanted another CF type, who'd be my starting RF and injury insurance for Bader. So I looked up rangy OFs with decent arms and Victor Robles popped out. Just the right amazing defense, and just enough "meh" at the plate to be both playable and affordable. My team needed him. My team got him. Up next, 2 more great defensive MIFs. One to start at 2B, one as utility. Both as injury insurance for Mondesi. And there on the trading block was Orlando Arcia, practically being given away by the Brewers, so I said yes please and thank you. Starting 2B secured. Was cheaper than the utility IFer I went after (the slick fielding but powerless Stephen Alemais of the Pirates), for whom I had to cough up Sam Hilliard, 2 prospects, and cash. I wanted an elite defensive backup catcher who could also be the starter in case of injury. There wasn't a great chance to get one immediately, but Mike Zunino looked like he'd be a FA the following offseason. So I held off (and eventually signed him as FA). Anyway, that secured my most important defensive positions by year 1. I left 1B, 3B, DH, and LF to be guys that had already been in the organization so as to keep a bit of Rockies flavor (replaced 2 of them the next season though). Next up, I wanted some sinker ballers at pitcher. KC had a pair of guys in Brad Keller and Brady Singer. They wanted an arm and a leg for them. So I had to get them in separate deals and sent several arms and legs. My formerly fat farm was thinning out fast and we still wanted at least 2 more SPs. Thankfully the Marlins love to send good players packing, so Trevor Rogers and JJ Bleday came onboard for Cron, Romo, Sheffield, and Almonte. Now, this was 2020-2021 offseason version of Trevor Rogers, who didn't have great ratings or great potential. Same for Bleday. They developed though. Oh boy they did. I really wanted to hold on to Romo, but I wasn't GMing for long term here, so off to the tropics he went. Still looking for another sinker baller (Rogers ain't got a sinker), I found Tanner Houck of the Red Sox, who quickly (well, next offseason) became formerly of the Red Sox. Sadly I had to include Fuentes in that deal, along with an awesome SS prospect that I would have loved to develop if I was in it for the long term. Anyhow, that's the gist of how I built the team. Here's how it went down in year 2. Attached Images Last edited by brotherblues; 08-06-2021 at 04:47 PM.

08-04-2021, 04:10 PM	#48
LittleHurt81 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: Denver Posts: 161	Would be a huge all-around improvement at the position (Polanco was top 3 in MLB in ZR) and for the team. I increased trade difficulty to 7 last offseason (admittedly I had it on average the previous 2) and still, this would be an INSANE return...

08-06-2021, 04:32 PM	#50
brotherblues All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2020 Posts: 658	Couple of quick notes: 1. Left some wins out by totally ignoring the bullpen, and by sticking a rule 5 guy at 3B, also completely ignoring it for the rest of the season. Those 2 things probably meant around 6 wins... and they finished 6 games out of the WC. 2. Pitching BABIP was .289, good for 2nd best in the NL. That's where those elite defenders make their hay. Opponents still slugged, but hey, #5 in Starters ERA while playing half their games at Coors, with 4 guys who aren't exactly game breakers.

08-06-2021, 10:38 PM	#51
timmermac Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 449	Not the way I'd do a Rockies franchise. I would try to take advantage of Coors as much as possible and outslug opponents. Looking for multiple 30+ homer guys. __________________ Running with the 1950 Braves. Crush the baseball. Drive it before you. And hear the lamentation of the opponent's women. I am king of the diamond! Let there be a grand clubhouse feast! Bring me the finest meats and cheeses in all the land!

10-15-2021, 10:58 AM	#57
LittleHurt81 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: Denver Posts: 161	I am re-visiting this thread because I have begun a new save with the LA Angels in a supposedly pitcher-friendly park. Granted, their staff is pretty terrible and I primarily used free agency to plug some holes, but my defense should be better than it is. The thing that boggles my mind is my defensive metrics are still... terrible. It's not a hitters park, I don't have elite defenders, but when I compare myself to AL West rivals their metrics are far superior despite us having even ratings in things like IF/OR Range. I am going to give it a couple weeks (season time) since I iknow it is a small sample thus far, but curious to hear people's thoughts. I will also present some data here to talk over.