Grokking The Game - Page 3

RonCo · 01-11-2009, 10:30 AM

Thanks for all the kind words upstream.

This is a great game, and Markus works hard to make things work right, but there are easily 50-100 things that a sensible sabermetric guy will find issues with. Now--realize I'm at least a couple patches out of date with my knowledge, so Markus may well have closed holes I think are still open. However, several of the bigger issues can probably only be closed with fairly serious redesigns--and some of those redesigns would probably put historical simming in jeopardy since data is scarce in those times.

The Wolf · 01-11-2009, 12:05 PM

RonCo, here's a public personal plea: please come back and help fix things.

injury log · 01-11-2009, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Velocity is definitely not cosmetic in the game.

Sorry, it is, at least insofar as it doesn't influence game results:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...feature-3.html

(see Tony's posts in that thread)

I've speculated elsewhere that velo might affect development - that's the only way in which it might not be cosmetic - but to my knowledge no one has looked into that.

That said, velocity is correlated with Stuff when players are created: players who are generated with high Stuff or Stuff Potential will have higher velocities, on average. Still, it's the Stuff that matters, not the velo: create two identical guys, but give one of them 101+ velo and the other <75 velo and they'll perform the same.

Pitchers do get a velo boost when they get a talent boost, and a velo hit when they get a talent hit, but that's what I'd call 'cosmetic'.

RonCo · 01-11-2009, 12:58 PM

Velocity is definitely cosmetic when it comes to results. Er ... or it definitely was cosmetic, anyway.

It's one of the most obvious sabermetric issues in the game.

Syd Thrift · 01-11-2009, 01:05 PM

Hmm. 2 years ago in beta, I could have sworn there was a conversation about strikeout rate being 70% stuff, 5% velocity, 15% control, etc. I don't think it has a very large effect on the game, but ISTR there being one.

RonCo · 01-11-2009, 01:10 PM

We discussed several things, but as I remember Markus chose not to go that way. The better/most simple way would be to make Stuff = K-Rate, then make stuff into a composite (like Contact is today). Example: Stuff = .55 * Vel + .35 * Mov + .1 * Con

Regardless, even if it's 5% velocity, it's way, way too small to be correct.

RonCo · 01-11-2009, 01:13 PM

This would make logical sense (I think) to all the pure baseball folks to--rather than the stat-heads--because the generic definition of stuff to a baseball person is a mish-mash of velocity, movement, and control (or command, which I think is best thought of in context of the game as a fine-tuning of control ... which doesn't exist in game unless something has changed since I last looked).

01-11-2009, 12:58 PM	#44
RonCo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 10,512	Velocity is definitely cosmetic when it comes to results. Er ... or it definitely was cosmetic, anyway. It's one of the most obvious sabermetric issues in the game. Last edited by RonCo; 01-11-2009 at 12:59 PM.

01-11-2009, 10:30 AM	#41
RonCo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 10,512	Thanks for all the kind words upstream. This is a great game, and Markus works hard to make things work right, but there are easily 50-100 things that a sensible sabermetric guy will find issues with. Now--realize I'm at least a couple patches out of date with my knowledge, so Markus may well have closed holes I think are still open. However, several of the bigger issues can probably only be closed with fairly serious redesigns--and some of those redesigns would probably put historical simming in jeopardy since data is scarce in those times.

01-11-2009, 01:10 PM	#46
RonCo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 10,512	We discussed several things, but as I remember Markus chose not to go that way. The better/most simple way would be to make Stuff = K-Rate, then make stuff into a composite (like Contact is today). Example: Stuff = .55 * Vel + .35 * Mov + .1 * Con Regardless, even if it's 5% velocity, it's way, way too small to be correct.

01-11-2009, 01:13 PM	#47
RonCo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 10,512	This would make logical sense (I think) to all the pure baseball folks to--rather than the stat-heads--because the generic definition of stuff to a baseball person is a mish-mash of velocity, movement, and control (or command, which I think is best thought of in context of the game as a fine-tuning of control ... which doesn't exist in game unless something has changed since I last looked).