Mayweather vs The Big Show!

[Romdawg88]

Originally Posted by Mr Big

Alright, now I'm intrigued. What did "The Hitman" have to say about so-called predetermined outcomes?

I'm guessing that he's referring to the Montreal Screwjob. I know there have been a couple of times things like that have happen before like with Wendi Richter and The Fabulous Moolah.

[Ric915]

Originally Posted by Romdawg88

I'm guessing that he's referring to the Montreal Screwjob. I know there have been a couple of times things like that have happen before like with Wendi Richter and The Fabulous Moolah.

Ohh Wendy Richter what an ass she had..ahh good times

[Bonedwarf]

Originally Posted by mh2365

Can we agree not to call it a sport? A sport, IMO, is where both sides has an equal shot at winning. Wrestling is a soap opera, not a sport.

Ballet is requires athletism also but it's not really a sport either.

I love wrestling. It's an athletic endeavour. Ain't a sport though. And Mayweather is supposedly getting $20 million for all this nonsense. I loathe WWE and mostly watch Japanese wrestling, with a bit of lucha and US indie thrown in from time to time. In short, I like actual "wrestling", not the BS that Vince pedals as "sports entertainment". I watch wrestling because I enjoy seeing wrestling, not stupid skits. Just like I don't watch "Lost" and expect a wrestling match to break out.

I get very very tired of the superior holier than thou attitude I see here (and elsewhere) about wrestling being fake etc... Yeah, it's fake. So what? Do you feel the urge to make snarky remarks to people who enjoy movies? After all they're "fake"? What about the doctors on ER. Do you believe anyone thinks they're really doctors? Do you make snide remarks at people who watch "House" and think Hugh Laurie is a real doctor? Of course not. So all the snark, you can shove it up your ass. I've never watched wrestling, even as a kid, without knowing it was pre-determined. A friend of the family was a wrestler and I knew from age 5 that it was all a setup. I also knew somebody who is paralysed from the waist down from injuries suffered in this "fake" stageshow.

And for those saying Big Show didn't legit break his nose, and it's all "acting", I guess it was all part of the show when Owen Hart fell to his death then. Or when Hayabusa broke his neck. Bad stuff happens. Wrestlers work with injuries that would have guys in professional sports benched for weeks. (Well just check the list of injuries on the back of Mick Foley's book.) Sadly in the wake of the Benoit thing, it's becoming evident now that all those abuses, especially the head trauma, can have effects far more devastating than was previously thought.

As for Mayweather/Big Show... *yawn* Vince attempting to spike a buyrate once again for Wrestlemania. Whatever. I'll stick to Dragon Gate thanks.

[beekman]

Originally Posted by Romdawg88

I'm guessing that he's referring to the Montreal Screwjob. I know there have been a couple of times things like that have happen before like with Wendi Richter and The Fabulous Moolah.

Bingo. While the Hart fiasco is the most famous recent example, it has happened for almost a century. Perhaps the most legendary was in 1925 when Stanislaus Zbyszko turned a worked match for the title w/ "Big" Wayne Munn into a shoot.

[Bronx Bomber 15]

Originally Posted by Bonedwarf

... Do you feel the urge to make snarky remarks to people who enjoy movies? After all they're "fake"?

Funny you say that, because that's my response when someone starts with the "it's all fake" rant. It's predetermined and scripted but far from "fake", unless those guys jumping from ladders and going through tables really isn't happening.

That being said, I still dislike the WWE and I don't feel Vince gives enough credit where credit is due, but takes it all for himself (his remarks about "training" fans to react a certain way is an example of this). I love the Indies and Japan, the old FMW stuff was great and of course the old ECW, XPW, CZW...it's like one big stunt show without the soap opera attached and these are the guys punishing themselves for pennies for the sake of their passion.

Even if you don't like it you can't deny those guys credit for what they do.

[mh2365]

I really don't have a problem with Wrestling as an entertainment property .. not my cup of tea but no problems with it. Only with the guys who think there is a legimate "fued" brewing or wow so and so was really mad ... or when they call it a sport.

It's acting, athletic acting, but acting none the less.

[Steeldogfan]

As a wrestling fan of 44 years (I am 45) I too know that pro wrestling is all a work. Boxing has been acused of it in the past, but what about PRIDE, UFC, IFL, and others of that ilk. Are they work, or are they real?

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Bronx Bomber 15

Funny you say that, because that's my response when someone starts with the "it's all fake" rant. It's predetermined and scripted but far from "fake", unless those guys jumping from ladders and going through tables really isn't happening.

That being said, I still dislike the WWE and I don't feel Vince gives enough credit where credit is due, but takes it all for himself (his remarks about "training" fans to react a certain way is an example of this). I love the Indies and Japan, the old FMW stuff was great and of course the old ECW, XPW, CZW...it's like one big stunt show without the soap opera attached and these are the guys punishing themselves for pennies for the sake of their passion.

Even if you don't like it you can't deny those guys credit for what they do.

So are Jackie Chan movies real then?

[Ric915]

My only problem with this is wrestlers have been doing this a long time and are experienced in how to take falls and such and it wouldn't take alot for Mayweather to get hurt if he lands the wrong way or even with his brittle hands if he hit's the guy harder then intended. I can see Floyd saying oh this will be easy I can do this and if he did take a cheap shot Big Show will get even and maybe drop Floyd a little harder then intended.

[Steeldogfan]

All of the wrestling sites I go to says that the "elbow injury" Mayweather suffered at the hands of Big Show last night on RAW is a part of the storyline, and he is not really injured. One site noted that this was a better spot than the Muhammad Ali/Gorilla Monsoon spot years ago. And yes, Ali did indeed take on a Japanese wrestler, Antonio Inoki, in the 70s.

[Calis]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

So are Jackie Chan movies real then?

I don't think he was arguing it was unscripted, the point is that some of those guys are extremely talented athletes and yeah Jackie Chan is as well.

It's really a matter of semantics I think, I mean you can argue that what Jackie Chan does is very much real. It ain't CGI, so yeah it's real. I imagine that's not what you mean though.

I'm not a wrestling fan, but I was as a kid and read a fair bit about it and those guys get my respect for the amount of work they do. It might be "fake" but man that has to be tough on your body and these guys, even moreso in the old days were doing this 300+ days a year, and sometimes multiple times in a day. I think that's where the people arguing it's "real" are coming from. While they're not really trying to maim each other(although sometimes that line gets blurred," they're still taking some punishment and doing some very athletic things.


I don't watch but I have read about the Floyd thing and from what I gather it doesn't appear to be going over well. I think I heard some people saying that he was getting a lot of boos and such, but it wasn't for being a bad guy, it was more like "get away from wrestling".

Seems like these crossover things usually end up being terrible in the end, and I wonder how much they actually help the people involved out.

[Bronx Bomber 15]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

So are Jackie Chan movies real then?

Since you ask...the "movie" is a fictional story, just like the story lines in wrestling as I stated in my post (read: the "predetermined and scripted" part). If you can find a way to show me how the stunt aspect of wrestling is fake then please do. I'm sure those silly old pros who have been injuring themselves for years would like to know how as well.

Please read my posts before replying or attempting to build an argument where there is none. I never stated that pro wrestling is real nor did I state that movies were real so I don't know where that came from.

Pretty simple, if you don't like wrestling, then don't watch it.

[Bronx Bomber 15]

On a similar note, since we're talking wrestling: I noticed ESPN Classic is showing 80's AWA reruns at 1am. Surfed passed it last night, funny seeing those guys when they were so young and some of them are still around.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Bronx Bomber 15

Since you ask...the "movie" is a fictional story, just like the story lines in wrestling as I stated in my post (read: the "predetermined and scripted" part). If you can find a way to show me how the stunt aspect of wrestling is fake then please do. I'm sure those silly old pros who have been injuring themselves for years would like to know how as well.

Please read my posts before replying or attempting to build an argument where there is none. I never stated that pro wrestling is real nor did I state that movies were real so I don't know where that came from.

Pretty simple, if you don't like wrestling, then don't watch it.

Actually, I have watched wrestling and I no longer do because it was getting too corny for me. It seems like it vacillates between really stupid soap opera-y periods, periods where they are trying to pretend that it is ALL REAL OMG THEY R PLAYING 4 KEEPS NOW and then occasional points where the whole industry is basically joshing itself. There was a point right around the time Al Snow was popular where I thought it was funny enough. Now IMO it's back to dumb again. I may well start watching in another few years.

That being said... here's an idea. There was a whole argument represented by my wacky quip. Have you watched a Jackie Chan movie? All the stunts he performs are real. If he jumps from one building to another over a 50-foot deep alley, that jump really happened. Jackie Chan has broken lots of bones doing his stunts and as such there is a certain element to his movies that you don't get with your average Hollywood blockbuster.

That being said, Jackie Chan movies aren't "real" in the sense that a baseball game is real. The outcome is predetermined in a Jackie Chan movie. It's like wrestling in that regard: I'll watch it as entertainment, but sports is something else entirely. Just because Vic Morrow died during the making of "The Twilight Zone: The Movie" doesn't mean that Stephen Spielberg films documentaries. There is a not so fine line between reality and narrative. Don't get me wrong; as a man with a BA in English, I often prefer the narrative form. But don't ever call it "real" in my presence because it's not.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Calis

I don't think he was arguing it was unscripted, the point is that some of those guys are extremely talented athletes and yeah Jackie Chan is as well.

It's really a matter of semantics I think, I mean you can argue that what Jackie Chan does is very much real. It ain't CGI, so yeah it's real. I imagine that's not what you mean though.

I'm not a wrestling fan, but I was as a kid and read a fair bit about it and those guys get my respect for the amount of work they do. It might be "fake" but man that has to be tough on your body and these guys, even moreso in the old days were doing this 300+ days a year, and sometimes multiple times in a day. I think that's where the people arguing it's "real" are coming from. While they're not really trying to maim each other(although sometimes that line gets blurred," they're still taking some punishment and doing some very athletic things.


I don't watch but I have read about the Floyd thing and from what I gather it doesn't appear to be going over well. I think I heard some people saying that he was getting a lot of boos and such, but it wasn't for being a bad guy, it was more like "get away from wrestling".

Seems like these crossover things usually end up being terrible in the end, and I wonder how much they actually help the people involved out.

Brief aside: I was watching the Joe Louis episode of Ringside over the weekend and they, of course, made a big to-do about how Louis prostituted himself out to professional wrestling (which was, of course, much smaller then than it is now) and to demonstrate they showed a match. Guess who the ref was? None other than Jersey Joe Walcott. I guess it's okay to "whore yourself out" when you're a. the ref and b. when you aren't as aWesome as Joe Louis.

[Bronx Bomber 15]

My Friend,
I don't want to argue with you, we seem to be running in circles on this so lets just say we have different opinions on the issue and call it a draw shall we?
I will say however, I no longer watch wrestling for the same reasons as you though I enjoy the old replays because they bring back some good memories.
Cheers

[Mr Big]

Fun times at the Big Show-PBF weigh-in!

YouTube - The Big Hurt!

[natedog7182]

lol as a 12 year jeet kune do and filipino expert...i know that a boxer is just a boxer no matter how you look at it a normal streetfighter can take out a boxer...paul wight dont need to know boxing....to beat him....how do we know that paul has no fighting experience......he probably was a bouncer..or a street fighter...ill tell you why i say that a normal streetfighter can take out a boxer..1 you can stay out in kicking range take out his legs...with your longest weapons 2 you can get in close provided that you can bridge the gap hence cadences..fakes..etc...get in close a boxer cant do nothing...and 3 when your talking size and wieght difference...hence is why they have heavywieghts lightwieghts and middlewieghts thus is why they never mix them cause the heavy wieghts will take out light wieghts middle wieghts etc...so you see one all paul wight has to do is stick his hand out and floyd couldnt even reach him with his leg..or better yet...charge him sure paul might eat a few shots getting in...but we all know he can eat a shot...so once he gets in he will snap him in half..so on boxers you can take him out 3 ways since you as a streetfighter may not as good at boxing is kicking range trapping range and grappling..hence a boxer is very vunerable.... so you got far range close range and ground range hence at boxer cant box you if your far out of his reach he cant box you if you close quarters and he sure the hell cant box you when hes on the ground...so my money is paul wight if they really fight

[natedog7182]

as a 12 year jeet kune do and filipino martial art expert...i know that a average street fighter can take out a boxer any day of the week cause they cant kick box they cant trap fight and they cant grapple all they got is boxing...and to say paul wight has no fighting experience is crap i bet everyone in here wouldnt say that **** to him...i know for a fact paul wight can take floyd why do i say this its because the hieght and wieght difference you dont send a lightwieght to fight a heavywieght do ya?why not cause the heavywieght out wieghs him and its no even a fair fight....so to say floyd could rock him in the real world is bull**** cause a paid boxer cant go toe to toe with a streetfighter...

all they got is boxing nothing else...all paul would have to do is to get past a boxer is 1...stay out of his range which is easy for a big man...pauls arms are longer then floyds legs...2 get in close...you get passed floyds boxing to trap fighting and guess what he cant box you from close quarters and finally 2 take him down to the ground....now i know a boxer cant box from the ground...how does he bridge this gap one may ask...very simple...its called cadences and fakes....or you can charge eat a few shots get in close take him down and smash him...that my friend is ground and pound and ill bet paul wight can ground and pound him to a bloody pulp...now.....

why do i say that...its cause we already know that paul wight can eat mayweathers shots..he done did and if you noticed..when he hit paul.....he ran like a little bitch....cause he knew he done ****ed up...

no man eats shots like that even if its an accident...and we know that was no accident...floyd hit him with all that he got...how do i know this...cause as a martial artist..i know how to box..and i know to get the max effort into your punches you put your hip in to it....and floyd put his hip into it..if he ment it to be fake he would have never put his hip into it...so ill put all my money down that paul wight would destroy him even if paul eats a few mayweather punches hence if de la hoya can eat his punches so can paul wight

[Lee]

Again, it is just Rasslin....

But did anybody watch this?