Bobby Cox gets 1800th win - Page 3

lynchjm24 · 09-22-2002, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Malleus Dei
Specs, keep that crap in Off Topic. That had no place here, was personally insulting, and was despicable and disgraceful to boot. Grow up.

Are you just mad because he spelled your name wrong?

Specs · 09-22-2002, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Malleus Dei
Specs, keep that crap in Off Topic. That had no place here, was personally insulting, and was despicable and disgraceful to boot. Grow up.

I forgot this was your forum :smacks self:

Seriously, though, sounds like someone needs a hug.

Malleus Dei · 09-22-2002, 08:54 PM

Relic, what debate? I have presented facts and the results of a quantified professional analysis. Cooley has presented nothing. All he has is a negative opinion, and has nothing except dislike, insults, and supporting gratuitous insults by Specs to back it up with, which equals zero. There is no debate: they have no argument to make whatsoever and so they insult instead.

Does Cooley and Spec's opinion even hold water? Let's do their work for them. Assume that Cox isn't a great manager and that his players have been carrying him for eleven straight years on the Braves. If that were the case, would a significant number of professional sports writers have consistently picked other teams to win the division based on the relative talent available? They wouldn't have, and yet they have consistently done so based on player talent levels. Why would the Braves, who have shown no hesitation at getting rid of people who underperform or embarass, keep a manager who wasn't benefitting the team? They wouldn't, and they've kept him. Would no one notice and comment on the fact that over eleven years that the team was carrying the manager? People would have, and they haven't. If the team was carrying the manager, the team would not consistently, season after season, win more games than they were mathematically expected to. They wouldn't do that - but they have. The assumption fails every reality test. (Now you see why there hasn't been an argument from the other side; they have nothing at all to argue with.)

Bill James' analysis, on the other hand, passes every reality test. The Braves win the division when picked not to, as they should. The Braves have kept Cox, and they would. The Braves' players praise their manager highly, and they would. They Braves consistenly win more games than they are expected to, and they would. If their manager was a great one, the Braves would consistently win division titles. They have won eleven in a row. Surprise, Bill James' analysis passes every reality test.

Malleus Dei · 09-22-2002, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Specs
I forgot this was your forum

This is the forum in which to talk baseball. If you want to post stupid, gratuitous, and uncalled-for insults then do it in Off Topic, where such things belong.

Malleus Dei · 09-22-2002, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lynchjm24
Are you just mad because he spelled your name wrong?

I'm disgusted with him, not mad at him.

You guys want to talk baseball, or do you want to keep on acting like children?

Cooleyvol · 09-22-2002, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Malleus Dei
Relic, what debate? I have presented facts and the results of a quantified professional analysis. Cooley has presented nothing. All he has is a negative opinion, and has nothing except dislike, insults, and supporting gratuitous insults by Specs to back it up with, which equals zero. There is no debate: they have no argument to make whatsoever and so they insult instead.

Does Cooley and Spec's opinion even hold water? Let's do their work for them. Assume that Cox isn't a great manager and that his players have been carrying him for eleven straight years on the Braves. If that were the case, would a significant number of professional sports writers have consistently picked other teams to win the division based on the relative talent available? They wouldn't have, and yet they have consistently done so based on player talent levels. Why would the Braves, who have shown no hesitation at getting rid of people who underperform or embarass, keep a manager who wasn't benefitting the team? They wouldn't, and they've kept him. Would no one notice and comment on the fact that over eleven years that the team was carrying the manager? People would have, and they haven't. If the team was carrying the manager, the team would not consistently, season after season, win more games than they were mathematically expected to. They wouldn't do that - but they have. The assumption fails every reality test. (Now you see why there hasn't been an argument from the other side; they have nothing at all to argue with.)

Bill James' analysis, on the other hand, passes every reality test. The Braves win the division when picked not to, as they should. The Braves have kept Cox, and they would. The Braves' players praise their manager highly, and they would. They Braves consistenly win more games than they are expected to, and they would. If their manager was a great one, the Braves would consistently win division titles. They have won eleven in a row. Surprise, Bill James' analysis passes every reality test.

What you fail to see is that I don't have to present ANY facts to back up an opinion.

I dont dislike you, I dislike the way you address people and your attitude.
You are the most pompous a$$ I've ever known.
You've caused more problems on this board than anyone, all the while crying about the posts on this board (of which I agree). When this forum was created, you announced it on every other forum on this board as if it was YOUR forum to announce. That's just you, I guess. It still doesnt give you the right to act as you have in the past.

Mal,
You stated an opinion. I stated that my opinion differed.
That's when you began your tirade. I forgot that you arent allowed to disagree with you.
Give me all the facts you wish--yours and James'. It still won't change my opinion.

I didn't disagee on Cox b/c I dislike you. Everything doesnt revolve around you. I just happen to disagree with your opinion of him. I guess that was my first crime.
I didnt insult b/c I had nothing to offer. I don't really feel I insulted you. All I said was that maybe you could use some Paxil. I stand by that. You can be high strung.

Negative opinion = any opinion different from yours

You're the one making this personal. All I stated was a differing opinion. Notice I didnt berate you for thinking he was the best. I merely stated that I didnt think so.

I stand by my first statement: I could field a winner with that squad. Not a division winner, but a winner.

Now let's drop it.

Cooleyvol · 09-22-2002, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Malleus Dei

You guys want to talk baseball, or do you want to keep on acting like children?

[pot calling the kettle "black]

Modern Relic · 09-22-2002, 09:12 PM

Thanks for responding Mal. Mark, do you have me on ignore?

Cooleyvol · 09-22-2002, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Modern Relic
Thanks for responding Mal. Mark, do you have me on ignore?

Not ignoring you, Tony.

Just not really sure of my answer.

Mind you, I have NO statistical backup. These are merely opinions.

I think Tom Kelly did a really nice job during his career.
Lasorda was a good manager.

If I were to pick from active managers, and this has NOTHING to do with being a Cardinal fan. I think Tony LaRussa is a very smart manager.

Others that come to mind:
Jim Leland
Dusty Baker

I don't really have an answer for you. I may have left out someone who does a really great job. If so, I'm sure someone will point it out to me.

Modern Relic · 09-22-2002, 09:41 PM

Thanks for responding, Mark. All good managers. Although I hear more and more that Leland had a habit of abusing his young pitchers.

Here in Chicagoland, there are rumblings that the Cubs may pursue Baker after the season. I know he's done a great job in SF. The only thing that worries me is that many of the things said about Baker are exactly what was said about Don Baylor. And we all know how that worked out.

EDIT: Uncle Lou in Seattle has his fans as well.

vtbub · 09-22-2002, 10:02 PM

His post-season managing skills leave alot to be desired. Too many losses in the World Series.

Malleus Dei · 09-22-2002, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cooleyvol
What you fail to see is that I don't have to present ANY facts to back up an opinion.

So you admit that you have no argument?

Quote:

Originally posted by Cooleyvol
I dont dislike you, I dislike the way you address people and your attitude.

And I feel the same way about you and your attitude and, especially, your gratuitous personal insults.

Quote:

Originally posted by Cooleyvol
You are the most pompous a$$ I've ever known.

Wow, more gratuitous insults. Want some back? Sorry, I'm here to talk baseball.

Quote:

Originally posted by Cooleyvol
I forgot that you arent allowed to disagree with you.

I am still waiting to find out your reasons for disagreeing so strongly, but it appears that you have none.

Quote:

Originally posted by Cooleyvol
Give me all the facts you wish--yours and James'. It still won't change my opinion..

Do you realize what you just wrote? You just wrote that facts are irrelevant to your thoughts and opinions. If you aren't kidding with that statement, you should be.

Quote:

Originally posted by Cooleyvol
All I said was that maybe you could use some Paxil.

I have a friend who takes Paxil. She is mentally ill. If I tell someone that they need to take Prozac, or Paxil, or any other drug for the mentally ill, what am I saying to them? What did that say to me?

If you have some points to make about Bobby Cox, make them. If you want to express your dislike for me or post insults, then take it elsewhere. I'm trying to talk baseball.

Specs · 09-22-2002, 10:21 PM

Do you need it graphically?

Specs · 09-22-2002, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Malleus Dei
Does Cooley and Spec's opinion even hold water?

On Topic: Wait, who said I thought Cox was a bad manager?

Off Topic: I just think you don't know when to stop arguing, and thus almost anyone who disagrees with you ends up in a four-page argument. I backed it up with cold, hard data.

Red Blow · 09-22-2002, 10:38 PM

I tip my hat, to you Mr Specs... you are truly gifted.

No offense to anyone in the thread. I'm purely JAFO on this one.

I just have to appreciate talent when I see it.

Malleus Dei · 09-22-2002, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Specs
Do you need it graphically?

No, that kind of crap is not needed at all. Specs, you are contributing nothing except seemingly endless insults. Go away.

Andy · 09-22-2002, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Specs
You like Sabermetrics, correct Malleus?

Here are a few stats I devised:

NKWTSU-index*
Career Leaders
99.9 Malleaus Dei
99.8 aec4 -- you don't know him, but trust me
99.7 HornsManiac (t)
99.7 RWBL Kevin (t)
91.3 jblaze03fuel
81.2 jor31
74.3 YankeePride
...
65.4 twins15
51.6 Rizon
43.2 Big Johnston (DNA?)
...
23.1 Draft Dodger
19.6 AnotherAlias
...
14.1 LivnLegend
...
10.0 ScottVib

TSTTIBAADIPIOSOOBTSOCP**
2002 Season Leaders
100.0% HornsManiac
93.1% Malleus Dei
49.4% jblaze03fuel
13.2% Dokken
13.1% Dxgarnett
11.2% YankeePride

*Not Knowing When To Shut Up Index
**Threads Started That Turned Into Big Arguments And Devolved Into Personal Insults Or Showing Off Of Beta Testing Since OOTP1 Credentials Percentage

I usually make all the lists but I am glad I am not on these.

Cooley, you should know better than to have a different opinion than Malleus.

BTW, off topic has been much better now that Mal has his "own" forum where he can have "intelligent" discussions.

Old Man · 09-22-2002, 11:05 PM

Since an opinion needs no proof, just a belief.

Cox (Atl) is a good manager, with a very good team to work with.

I have always liked that manager in Seattle...

So Lou Pinella is my choice for the best.

twins15 · 09-22-2002, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Specs
You like Sabermetrics, correct Malleus?

Here are a few stats I devised:

NKWTSU-index*
Career Leaders
99.9 Malleaus Dei
99.8 aec4 -- you don't know him, but trust me
99.7 HornsManiac (t)
99.7 RWBL Kevin (t)
91.3 jblaze03fuel
81.2 jor31
74.3 YankeePride
...
65.4 twins15
51.6 Rizon
43.2 Big Johnston (DNA?)
...
23.1 Draft Dodger
19.6 AnotherAlias
...
14.1 LivnLegend
...
10.0 ScottVib

TSTTIBAADIPIOSOOBTSOCP**
2002 Season Leaders
100.0% HornsManiac
93.1% Malleus Dei
49.4% jblaze03fuel
13.2% Dokken
13.1% Dxgarnett
11.2% YankeePride

*Not Knowing When To Shut Up Index
**Threads Started That Turned Into Big Arguments And Devolved Into Personal Insults Or Showing Off Of Beta Testing Since OOTP1 Credentials Percentage

That's funny. I searched and searched, but I couldn't find your name on this list.

Specs · 09-22-2002, 11:21 PM

Yeah, chicks can't find anything can they?

On a more serious note, I left myself off because my threads, while long, are more than often comical in nature. Rarely will you see an argument started in a Specs thread that doesn't have to do with people accusing the Patriots of buying off the refs in the wildcard game against a 6th seed they were _supposed to beat_ as the #2 seed. honestly, people.

09-22-2002, 09:12 PM	#48
Modern Relic All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,266	Thanks for responding Mal. Mark, do you have me on ignore? __________________ American Folklore Baseball League (closed): Commissioner/GM - Mudville Nine (ruled!) Former member of Boys of Summer: GM - St. Louis Browns (doormats!) Former member of the OTBL: GM - Gashouse Gorillas (also ruled!) "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby

09-22-2002, 09:41 PM	#50
Modern Relic All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,266	Thanks for responding, Mark. All good managers. Although I hear more and more that Leland had a habit of abusing his young pitchers. Here in Chicagoland, there are rumblings that the Cubs may pursue Baker after the season. I know he's done a great job in SF. The only thing that worries me is that many of the things said about Baker are exactly what was said about Don Baylor. And we all know how that worked out. EDIT: Uncle Lou in Seattle has his fans as well. __________________ American Folklore Baseball League (closed): Commissioner/GM - Mudville Nine (ruled!) Former member of Boys of Summer: GM - St. Louis Browns (doormats!) Former member of the OTBL: GM - Gashouse Gorillas (also ruled!) "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby

09-22-2002, 10:38 PM	#55
Red Blow Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 404	I tip my hat, to you Mr Specs... you are truly gifted. No offense to anyone in the thread. I'm purely JAFO on this one. I just have to appreciate talent when I see it. __________________ http://www.nobl.net This is your father's league.

09-22-2002, 10:02 PM	#51
vtbub Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Burlington, VT Posts: 143	His post-season managing skills leave alot to be desired. Too many losses in the World Series.

09-22-2002, 11:05 PM	#58
Old Man Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 464	Since an opinion needs no proof, just a belief. Cox (Atl) is a good manager, with a very good team to work with. I have always liked that manager in Seattle... So Lou Pinella is my choice for the best.