Report: Steve Nash wins 2nd straight NBA MVP - Page 3

DamnYankees · 04-26-2006, 03:11 PM

Also, LeBron plays about 2 minutes per game more than Kobe...not sure how that helps his stats, but just pointing it out.

TonyJ · 04-26-2006, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamnYankees

Why do people say Kobe is just a gunner?

LeBron: 31/7/7
Kobe: 35/5/5

Yes, LeBron is a better passer than Kobe, but he gets more rebounds because he's a forward, and he scores less. There's a very good case that LeBron had a better year, but this argument that Kobe's an incredibly ball hog keeps pissing me off, since it just isn't true. WATCH HIM PLAY! Yes, he shoots alot, but he also passes and rebounds alot. He has the ball every freaking possession.

Yeah, he gets a bad rap. He's also a much better defensive player than people realize.

DamnYankees · 04-26-2006, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyJ

Yeah, he gets a bad rap. He's also a much better defensive player than people realize.

He was a great defender a few years ago - 1st team All-NBA. His defense isn't as good as it used to be, but he's still excellent at it. Outside of Jordan, you'd be hard pressed to find a better combo of scoring and defense.

TonyJ · 04-26-2006, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swampdragon

We're probably a year away from his coming out party, but I would love to see him do well against Detroit this year, even though the Cavs would have no chance and may not get by Washington.

Man, he's already averaging 30/7/7 and would be a junior in college right now. How freaking good is he going to be? I can't believe I am actually saying this about anyone, but he could well be better than Jordan once he peaks.

DamnYankees · 04-26-2006, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyJ

Man, he's already averaging 30/7/7 and would be a junior in college right now. How freaking good is he going to be? I can't believe I am actually saying this about anyone, but he could well be better than Jordan once he peaks.

It'll all depend on his desire to get better. Jordan, Kobe, Bird - they all got to their best and then turned it up a notch, practicing and training like never before to get even better. Does LeBron have that will, that desire? That'll be the key.

TonyJ · 04-26-2006, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamnYankees

It'll all depend on his desire to get better. Jordan, Kobe, Bird - they all got to their best and then turned it up a notch, practicing and training like never before to get even better. Does LeBron have that will, that desire? That'll be the key.

All the indications so far are that he does. Look at how he responded to the challenge of playing in the playoffs, for instance. Of course, its just projection at this point. We'll have to wait and see. One thing is certain, it will be fun to watch.

PerfectMisnomer · 04-26-2006, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobbuttons

LeBron: 6 Triple Doubles, 21 Double Doubles
Kobe: 0 Triple Doubles, 4 Double Doubles

'Nuff said.

I could vote for either one for MVP, but I don't think it's fair to use stats like these in making a case. Each player has a role on their respected team, and Lebron's role was more of a PG/Magic-esque role. Meanwhile, Kobe was relied on to put the points on the board when he wasn't triple teamed.

DamnYankees · 04-26-2006, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerfectMisnomer

I could vote for either one for MVP, but I don't think it's fair to use stats like these in making a case. Each player has a role on their respected team, and Lebron's role was more of a PG/Magic-esque role. Meanwhile, Kobe was relied on to put the points on the board when he wasn't triple teamed.

Also, if Kobe played SF and didn't shoot as much, he'd get alot more rebounds. I remember back when he was, like, 19, he played SF for a while and started racking up double doubles.

It's just not his role anymore.

PerfectMisnomer · 04-26-2006, 03:26 PM

MVP Awards:

Isaiah Thomas - 0
John Stockton - 0
Mark Jackson - 0
Gary Payton - 0
Jason Kidd - 0
Lenny Wilkens - 0
Tim Hardaway - 0

Steve Nash - 2

Hmm...

DamnYankees · 04-26-2006, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerfectMisnomer

MVP Awards:

Isaiah Thomas - 0
John Stockton - 0
Mark Jackson - 0
Gary Payton - 0
Jason Kidd - 0
Lenny Wilkens - 0
Tim Hardaway - 0

Steve Nash - 2

Hmm...

Absurd. Jason Kidd was, in his prime, 10 times the player Nash was. Isaiah - same. Stockton? You kiddin' me?

People just love watching the Suns. Someone mentioned earlier that its no coincidence that when Nash was on the Mavs, they were the highest scoring team, and now the Suns. You know what else isn't a coincidence? The Mavs used to be a total joke on defense, and thus never won - now they are pretty good at it.

The Suns? They give up so many points its a joke. Coincidence?

Dagrims · 04-26-2006, 03:31 PM

If the discussion revolves solely around value to his team, Dwight Howard deserves consideration. The Magic would have won 15 games at most without him.

Erik W. · 04-26-2006, 03:31 PM

Oh goodie. The old "they've gotten it wrong in the past, so they should keep getting it wrong" argument.

Let's also completely ignore the fact that many of the listed PG's, like Stockton and Isiah, were in their primes at the same time that guys named Magic, Bird, Jordan, Robinson, etc were around.

DamnYankees · 04-26-2006, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagrims

If the discussion revolves solely around value to his team, Dwight Howard deserves consideration. The Magic would have won 15 games at most without him.

If the Magic had made the playoffs, I'd agree. But I think we all would agree there's a minimal level of success required to be eligable, and in the NBA where 16 teams make the playoffs, that's gotta be a requirement.

DamnYankees · 04-26-2006, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azamien

Oh goodie. The old "they've gotten it wrong in the past, so they should keep getting it wrong" argument.

Let's also completely ignore the fact that many of the listed PG's, like Stockton and Isiah, were in their primes at the same time that guys named Magic, Bird, Jordan, Robinson, etc were around.

I don't think we're saying those guys should have won MVPs, just that we don't get the hooplah over Nash.

You're right, Magic, Bird, Jordan and Robinson took MVPs award away from other guys, deservedly so. But they also should now! Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Nowitzki and others deserve these awards much more than Nash, and for the life of me I can't understand why people seem to give Nash so much credit.

Dagrims · 04-26-2006, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamnYankees

Absurd. Jason Kidd was, in his prime, 10 times the player Nash was. Isaiah - same. Stockton? You kiddin' me?

Almost impossible to believe that a guy didn't win an MVP averaging 105 assists and 189 points per game.

Hammer755 · 04-26-2006, 03:36 PM

The biggest problem I'll have with the NBA awards this year is watching Yao Ming being named to the All-NBA Third Team. While I live in Houston, I am by no means a Rocket homer or fan even, but Yao had the best season of any center in the NBA this year, and every list I've seen had him behind Shaq & Wallace.

DamnYankees · 04-26-2006, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagrims

Almost impossible to believe that a guy didn't win an MVP averaging 105 assists and 189 points per game.

I can't tell if you're just joking, or if you think absolutism makes you smarter...some of us understand hyperbole and don't feel it's really necessary to mock. It's the refuge of 3rd graders and gravediggers.

PerfectMisnomer · 04-26-2006, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azamien

Oh goodie. The old "they've gotten it wrong in the past, so they should keep getting it wrong" argument.

Let's also completely ignore the fact that many of the listed PG's, like Stockton and Isiah, were in their primes at the same time that guys named Magic, Bird, Jordan, Robinson, etc were around.

Kind of like how the PG's of now are around while Kobe and Lebron are in their prime?

Hammer755 · 04-26-2006, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamnYankees

I can't tell if you're just joking, or if you think absolutism makes you smarter...some of us understand hyperbole and don't feel it's really necessary to mock. It's the refuge of 3rd graders and gravediggers.

I thought it was funny. :toocents:

DamnYankees · 04-26-2006, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer755

I thought it was funny. :toocents:

I'd think so too if such statistical absolutism didn't run rampant on these boards...I hope he was joking, but I just wasn't sure.

04-26-2006, 03:26 PM	#49
PerfectMisnomer All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,221	MVP Awards: Isaiah Thomas - 0 John Stockton - 0 Mark Jackson - 0 Gary Payton - 0 Jason Kidd - 0 Lenny Wilkens - 0 Tim Hardaway - 0 Steve Nash - 2 Hmm... __________________ PCBL -- Commissioner, Troy Heroes GM Current Avatar: SP Keith Ellison 20-8, 2.59 ERA and CL All-Star Game Starter

04-26-2006, 03:31 PM	#51
Dagrims Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 3,827	If the discussion revolves solely around value to his team, Dwight Howard deserves consideration. The Magic would have won 15 games at most without him. __________________ "Read books, get brain."

04-26-2006, 03:11 PM	#41
DamnYankees All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,644	Also, LeBron plays about 2 minutes per game more than Kobe...not sure how that helps his stats, but just pointing it out.

04-26-2006, 03:31 PM	#52
Erik W. Global Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rivière-du-Loup, Qc Posts: 4,615	Oh goodie. The old "they've gotten it wrong in the past, so they should keep getting it wrong" argument. Let's also completely ignore the fact that many of the listed PG's, like Stockton and Isiah, were in their primes at the same time that guys named Magic, Bird, Jordan, Robinson, etc were around.

04-26-2006, 03:36 PM	#56
Hammer755 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,348	The biggest problem I'll have with the NBA awards this year is watching Yao Ming being named to the All-NBA Third Team. While I live in Houston, I am by no means a Rocket homer or fan even, but Yao had the best season of any center in the NBA this year, and every list I've seen had him behind Shaq & Wallace.