The 2023 NFL Season Thread

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by pilight

Didn't we get enough of that in the 1957 NFL Championship game?

I was living about 100 miles south of Detroit at the time. My father was a big Browns fan, and was pretty disappointed.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by pilight

Maybe we'll be spared the "Dak for MVP" talk for a week

Well, he was the frontrunner. Even now he's still in the mix with 3 games left. But I think we all knew it was going to come down to games against the Bills, Dolphins, and Lions. If he has two good games there, he'll be back in front.

There's really not a lot of stand out QBs for MVP. I think Hill would have got it had he reached 2000 yards. But that looks bleak now. Maybe the 49ers running back?

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by pilight

Dak gets extra attention because he's the Cowboys QB, just like everyone who preceded him in that job. If Dallas is .500 or better, and sometimes when they're not, their QB gets gushed over far beyond what's reasonable for their performance.

Clearly you haven't been to the Cowboyszone forum.

You're talking about either ESPN or the NFL network. There is no gushing anywhere else. And everyone has a bad game. Hell, the Bills lost to the Patriots, and almost lost to the Giants at home. Teams the Cowboys have flushed down the toilet 3 times.

Had the Bills been in Dallas, that game would be different.

[pilight]

The NFL fudges attendance numbers as bad as anyone. I'm sure you've seen the pictures from the Falcons-Panthers game, but if not start here:

https://www.outkick.com/panthers-fal...me-attendance/

The NFL claims there were over 70,000 people there, despite tickets being still available at heavy discounts right up to kickoff.

[Syd Thrift]

I mean, they're going off of paid attendance, right? I'd guess that the scalper-adjacent people selling their tickets on Stubhub took a bath, not so much the NFL itself.

I'm not about to say that the NFL isn't going to fudge attendance but here, given that it's late in the season and the Panthers apparently did so well with season ticket sales in 2022 that they increased prices heading into 2023 even with this horrific team (my cursory search didn't come up with a final number), I think it can be equally true that something close to 70k people bought tickets at some time or another and also that you could buy good seats for very, very cheap for this game.

[CONN CHRIS]

One of my recent-memory attendance favorites was this Florida Panthers pre-season game. Yeah, it's pre-season, it's split squad, it's hockey in Florida but man ... If you lace up professionals and push them onto the ice virtually anywhere in the US I would expect to see more than dozens in attendance.

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...3421--nhl.html

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

One of my recent-memory attendance favorites was this Florida Panthers pre-season game. Yeah, it's pre-season, it's split squad, it's hockey in Florida but man ... If you lace up professionals and push them onto the ice virtually anywhere in the US I would expect to see more than dozens in attendance.

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...3421--nhl.html

I lived near San Francisco from 1962 to about 1970. My dad was a huge baseball fan, and we went to several games a year.

I recall one game, at the Oakland Coliseum, where there could not have been more than 500 fans. Likely much fewer. At the beginning of the second inning, they announced that you could sit anywhere you wanted.

At that point, there was a little knot of fans behind the two dugouts. I walked way the hell down the first base line, almost all the way to the foul pole.

There wasn't a fan within two hundred feet of me, in any direction. Curt Blefary, of the Yankees, hit TWO foul balls. One I had to walk to, the other one landed just a few feet away.

Another game, against the Twins, I walked over to try to get an autograph from a player..ANY player. Rich Rollins told me to F*** off. Sure bud...that one hurt. I was about ten.

[Ragnar]

I would imagine most of the money comes from TV deals. But years ago they had some weird attendance rules when filling the stadium mattered most.

At first, games were blacked out anywhere near the stadium. Then they loosened up. If the game was sold out 72 hours before kickoff, the game wouldn't be blacked out.

[low]

Fire. Joe. Barry.

[pilight]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

I would imagine most of the money comes from TV deals. But years ago they had some weird attendance rules when filling the stadium mattered most.

Now that they sell almost all the tickets to ticket brokers owned by the teams there's no way to enforce that. That's how the Panthers can claim 70k paid attendance when hardly any actual people bought tickets.

[Cobra Mgr]

Panther fans are a unique fan base. I would say at least half of the "Panther nation" likes Carolina as their 2nd team. That group is really comprised of Cowboy, Washington, Steelers, New York fans. If the Panthers aren't winning, fans ain't gonna show. And if they are boring, you gotta shove them into the stadium.

[thehef]

Totally in favor of Kazee getting suspended for the rest of the year for this hit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9ub_FZMAJg

Not only is it unnecessary and extremely dangerous, but it's also the ultimate in being a cheap-shot pu#$y, displaying fake machismo. Rather than laying out a completely defenseless receiver/ball carrier, how about telling a lineman across the field that your coming for him. Then start charging him and launch yourself at him. And let's see how that ends up.

I've said it before but I think all levels of football need to eliminate leading with the head; instant ejection, followed by some level of suspension... Too many times there's no penalty because there wasn't helmet-to-helmet contact. Typically, though, whether or not helmets make contact is a) out of the control of defender; he's simply leading with the head and may or may not make h2h contact depending upon whatever variables occur, and b) is besides the point because leading with the head is dangerous, regardless.

[mytreds]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

Well, he was the frontrunner. Even now he's still in the mix with 3 games left. But I think we all knew it was going to come down to games against the Bills, Dolphins, and Lions. If he has two good games there, he'll be back in front.

There's really not a lot of stand out QBs for MVP. I think Hill would have got it had he reached 2000 yards. But that looks bleak now. Maybe the 49ers running back?

Brock Purdy isn’t a standout QB? Jeez the East Coast bias is still strong I see.

[Cobra Mgr]

Purdy is currently 2nd in yds & comp %, 1st in TD's & yds per att & has a better than 4:1 TD:INT ratio.

Those #'s stand out to me. But not enough for me to say he's MVP.

Because of the nature of the game, I think it is very hard for me to call anyone "MVP". "MOP"? yeah I can get behind that. But I'm not so sure the Niners MVP on offense isn't Purdy or CMC but Trent Williams.

[pilight]

Purdy has been great. So have Jackson and Tagovailoa. All three have been better than Prescott.

[damientheomen3]

Originally Posted by cobra mgr

because of the nature of the game, i think it is very hard for me to call anyone "mvp". "mop"? Yeah i can get behind that. but i'm not so sure the niners mvp on offense isn't purdy or cmc but trent williams.

+1

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by pilight

Purdy has been great. So have Jackson and Tagovailoa. All three have been better than Prescott.

I guess they go by statistics for this stuff. Tua, Purdy, and Dak are very similar in that regard. Jackson, not so much.

I'd be quicker to give Tyreek Hill MVP over Tua. Unless they're playing the Jets, Tua and the Dolphins are a different team when Hill isn't out there.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by thehef

Totally in favor of Kazee getting suspended for the rest of the year for this hit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9ub_FZMAJg

Not only is it unnecessary and extremely dangerous, but it's also the ultimate in being a cheap-shot pu#$y, displaying fake machismo. Rather than laying out a completely defenseless receiver/ball carrier, how about telling a lineman across the field that your coming for him. Then start charging him and launch yourself at him. And let's see how that ends up.

I've said it before but I think all levels of football need to eliminate leading with the head; instant ejection, followed by some level of suspension... Too many times there's no penalty because there wasn't helmet-to-helmet contact. Typically, though, whether or not helmets make contact is a) out of the control of defender; he's simply leading with the head and may or may not make h2h contact depending upon whatever variables occur, and b) is besides the point because leading with the head is dangerous, regardless.

He led with his shoulder.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/SgrFv3FPQRU

I'm all for penalizing a malicious hit. I'm just not sure it was. It could be just the natural instinct of the defender. You see it a lot when QBs slide late. The defender goes to the ground with him, often getting flagged for it.

Minshew should be suspended for trying to injure his WR with that throw.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

He led with his shoulder.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/SgrFv3FPQRU

I'm all for penalizing a malicious hit. I'm just not sure it was. It could be just the natural instinct of the defender. You see it a lot when QBs slide late. The defender goes to the ground with him, often getting flagged for it.

Minshew should be suspended for trying to injure his WR with that throw.

It's a fine-line, I'll admit. His head was in the lead if it were a horserace, and that's what I was basing it on, even though it was primarily his shoulder that impacted Pittman. This is one of those examples that I was referring to, though: The defender is leading with his head - even if his intent was to contact with the shoulder - and then it's mostly out of his control where the impact - both his body and the receiver's - occurs. From the time the defender launches to the time impact occurs, the trajectory and other factors can alter the expected points of impact... But ya, I'll admit that there may not be an easy solution.

In the Kazee hit, there's no question that - head impact or no - "creaming a defenseless player" - which is different that leading with the head - was what occurred. So at least there's that. Meaning, IMO, suspension = earned & very much deserved. And now that I know that Kazee is repeat offender, I'd say a longer suspension is warranted.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

Clearly you haven't been to the Cowboyszone forum.

You're talking about either ESPN or the NFL network. There is no gushing anywhere else. And everyone has a bad game. Hell, the Bills lost to the Patriots, and almost lost to the Giants at home. Teams the Cowboys have flushed down the toilet 3 times.

Had the Bills been in Dallas, that game would be different.

Everyone has a bad game? The bigger the game, the worse Dak plays.

115 yards of offense, TOTAL, until the last drive of the game, when they're down by 28 points.