VOTE: Time Warp HOF Ballot 1952 - Page 2

rogmax11 · 02-10-2005, 11:43 AM

I will echo the sentiment that this is the most difficult election year yet. My prelim list alone had thirteen names on it and I felt queasy over some of the players I left off of that culling. Anyhow, here goes:

Oscar Vancini is a no-doubter.
Dave Wickersham, best of the pitching candidates.
Terry Schukraft
Bussell and Liao are essentially the same player, both deserving.
McAuliffe
Arkless
Greisbach
Finley, stellar defense and unnatural stolen base totals for the position.
Misisca, for the same reasons posted by Fearless Leader.

I feel crummy leaving Kinnear, Booth, Ponfick, et al, off the ballot, but whats a boy to do?

scprideandms · 02-10-2005, 12:10 PM

Wickersham
Griesbach
Vancini
Bussell
Liao

Dagrims · 02-10-2005, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tward13

Personally, I feel this is very unfair. The other guys either are or aren't HoFers. Voting to give someone a "special" vote isn't fair to other worthy players. Especially if you fully intend to vote for a few of them next year. (or voted for some of them in the past)

I agree 100% with your sentiment, and I simply don't understand the "one vote" rationale given the caliber of a number of the other candidates. This has always been present in the real-life HOF, however - someone votes Cobb and only Cobb so Ruth gets left off a ballot (or vice versa).

My votes:

Schwarz
Kinnear
Greisbach
Vancini
Bussell
Misisca
Riley
Booth
Wickersham
Schukraft

Easily another few that I might vote for in another year, but can't now with the limit imposed.

fhomess · 02-10-2005, 02:53 PM

LF Oscar Vancini
3B Troy Kinnear
1B Quentin Misisca
SP David Wickersham
SP Luke Riley

BPS · 02-10-2005, 04:10 PM

Vancini
Riley
McAuliffe
Ponfick
Wickersham
Misisca
Kinnear
Bussell

Vris · 02-10-2005, 05:03 PM

Damn, you have 10 votes people! Use them!

I still don't understand that.

DamnYankees · 02-10-2005, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vris

Damn, you have 10 votes people! Use them!

I still don't understand that.

I truly believe that this year did not merit 10 Hall of Famers. I voted for the 6 I thought merited it.

ifspuds · 02-10-2005, 05:24 PM

Lots of great players. I can't shake the feeling that some really deserving players are going to start slipping through the cracks, and the Veteran's Committee is going to have a tough job ahead.

Kinnear
Misisca
Greisbach
Vancini
Bussell
Liao
Riley
Booth
Wickersham
Ponfick

woody5254 · 02-10-2005, 05:36 PM

Wickersham
Ponfick
Schukraft
Vancini
Bowden
Griesbach
McAuliffe
Russell
Minzey
Kinnear

Vris · 02-10-2005, 06:03 PM

I hate these people that have "very high standards". Damn. These are the people that have to lighten up a little bit.

cknox0723 · 02-10-2005, 06:33 PM

Wickersham
Riley
Fargo
Schwarz
Vancini
Greisbach

MogulChamp · 02-10-2005, 06:50 PM

Minzey
Bowden
Mcauliffe
Vancini
Greisbach
Bussell
Liao
Shukraft
Ponfick
Wickersham

metsgeek · 02-10-2005, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vris

I hate these people that have "very high standards". Damn. These are the people that have to lighten up a little bit.

I agree. Frankly, it's elitist

DamnYankees · 02-10-2005, 07:03 PM

Come on. The HOF is a special place. If I had my way, I would put a cap of 120 players in the HOF, forever. If someone is voted in, the lowest person is booted out.

I've been to Cooperstown. I hope some of you have also. It's a religious experience, an amazing place. I hold it in incredibly high regard. I won't apologize for having high standards for the HOF.

ifspuds · 02-10-2005, 07:09 PM

I'm in the same camp with Vris and metsgeek. If a player is a Hall of Famer, he's a Hall of Famer. Doesn't matter how many other people are in, or how many other deserving people are on the ballot at once.

It's patently ridiculous to limit the Hall of Fame (the real one, as suggested by DamnYankees) to 120 players. It's commemorating the greatest players of the game (granted, some probably don't belong there) and there's no limit on how many great players there can be as baseball continues on through this century. Besides, who gets to decide who the "worst of the best" are? How do you *accurately* compare eras? If you can do those things, you're way smarter than a whole lot of really smart baseball analysts.

But the whole point of my long-winded post is to say that I think it's amazing that we're having this discussion for a league that only exists in a computer and in our minds. It really speaks to the power of the game, the league, and imagination.

metsgeek · 02-10-2005, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamnYankees

Come on. The HOF is a special place. If I had my way, I would put a cap of 120 players in the HOF, forever. If someone is voted in, the lowest person is booted out.

I've been to Cooperstown. I hope some of you have also. It's a religious experience, an amazing place. I hold it in incredibly high regard. I won't apologize for having high standards for the HOF.

....and I won't apologize for thinking otherwise. That 120 cap idea is just ridiculous. How do you rank them? "Oops, sorry, you were good enough to get in in 1940, but you simply mediocre now."

Not to mention different eras, steroids, deadballs, different game styles. If you vote for someone one year and they don't get in, I don't see any logic whatsoever in not voting for them the next year, unless there are 10 players better than them on the new ballot.

I've been to Cooperstown 7 times, by the way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifspuds

It really speaks to the power of the game, the league, and imagination.

...or it's a sad comment on our social lives

DamnYankees · 02-10-2005, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metsgeek

....and I won't apologize for thinking otherwise. That 120 cap idea is just ridiculous. How do you rank them? "Oops, sorry, you were good enough to get in in 1940, but you simply mediocre now."

Not to mention different eras, steroids, deadballs, different game styles. If you vote for someone one year and they don't get in, I don't see any logic whatsoever in not voting for them the next year, unless there are 10 players better than them on the new ballot.

I've been to Cooperstown 7 times, by the way.

Ok, well, now I'm jealous of you a bit. I'll get back there some day...

I think the Hall of Fame is reserved for the best of the best. This is, of course, a relative term. As the Hall of Fame gets bigger and bigger, the meaning of it all dilutes. We all have our limits as to how big the HOF should be. Pete, I doubt you would like a HOF with 2,000 members. It would render the accomplishment rather meaningless.

So we don't disagree on this point. We simply have different levels of acceptability for HOF merit. And that's fine.

BTW: My 120 idea is obviously not the best solution, and in realith I would never implement it. I just hate seeing the HOF letting in people like Bid McFee, Ralph Kiner and the like. They simply don't deserve it. This doesn't mean they weren't good/great players. They're just not Hall of Famers in my book.

And that is why we vote, so all our opinions come together and create a standard of 75%.

rogmax11 · 02-10-2005, 08:13 PM

Yo! Dont be dissin' Bid McFee, the d00d could rake!

haggis007 · 02-10-2005, 08:17 PM

This was really difficult. Some good players are likely going to fall off the ballot due to the depth here.

Vancini
Kinnear
Misisca
Schwarz
Bussell
Greisbach
Wickersham
Riley
Ponfick
Booth

Vris · 02-10-2005, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cknox0723

Wickersham
Riley
Fargo
Schwarz
Vancini
Greisbach

Quote:

I hate these people that have "very high standards". Damn. These are the people that have to lighten up a little bit.

That goes for you too Craig!

Damn elitists!

I've been to Cooperstown, once. Summer of '03. Incredible place. I've also been to Springfield a couple times and I'd love to visit Canton.
The Hall of Fame may mean different things to different people, but that doesn't mean there are only "120" Hall of Famers.

02-10-2005, 12:10 PM	#22
scprideandms All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: N KY, 25 miles from Cincy Posts: 1,314	Wickersham Griesbach Vancini Bussell Liao __________________ Change your playground + change your playfriends + change your playtoys + change your playtime = Change your life. If you keep on doing what you've always done you'll keep on gitting what you've always gotten.

02-10-2005, 02:53 PM	#24
fhomess Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,638	LF Oscar Vancini 3B Troy Kinnear 1B Quentin Misisca SP David Wickersham SP Luke Riley __________________ StatsLab- PHP/MySQL based utilities for Online Leagues Baseball Cards - Full list of known templates and documentation on card development.

02-10-2005, 05:03 PM	#26
Vris Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: somewhere where I don't know where I am Posts: 3,251	Damn, you have 10 votes people! Use them! I still don't understand that. __________________ None Blog it.

02-10-2005, 05:24 PM	#28
ifspuds Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 2,117	Lots of great players. I can't shake the feeling that some really deserving players are going to start slipping through the cracks, and the Veteran's Committee is going to have a tough job ahead. Kinnear Misisca Greisbach Vancini Bussell Liao Riley Booth Wickersham Ponfick __________________ Jeff Watson Former dynasty writer and online league player, now mostly retired

02-10-2005, 05:36 PM	#29
woody5254 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hector, NY Posts: 6,130	Wickersham Ponfick Schukraft Vancini Bowden Griesbach McAuliffe Russell Minzey Kinnear __________________ Check out: You Pick Tourney Version 2.0 Standings Thread You Pick The Teams Tourney: Main Thread The Colossal 20th Century Tourney:Main Thread Chicago White Sox(Original Owner:2001-) Baseball Maelstrom -2001,2011,2013 World Series Champions -2002,2010 Maelstrom Tourney Champs Arizona Diamondbacks(2003-) NAHHBL Indianapolis Racers(Expansion Team:1993-)ABC

02-10-2005, 11:43 AM	#21
rogmax11 All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,320	I will echo the sentiment that this is the most difficult election year yet. My prelim list alone had thirteen names on it and I felt queasy over some of the players I left off of that culling. Anyhow, here goes: Oscar Vancini is a no-doubter. Dave Wickersham, best of the pitching candidates. Terry Schukraft Bussell and Liao are essentially the same player, both deserving. McAuliffe Arkless Greisbach Finley, stellar defense and unnatural stolen base totals for the position. Misisca, for the same reasons posted by Fearless Leader. I feel crummy leaving Kinnear, Booth, Ponfick, et al, off the ballot, but whats a boy to do?

02-10-2005, 04:10 PM	#25
BPS All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 717	Vancini Riley McAuliffe Ponfick Wickersham Misisca Kinnear Bussell

02-10-2005, 06:03 PM	#30
Vris Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: somewhere where I don't know where I am Posts: 3,251	I hate these people that have "very high standards". Damn. These are the people that have to lighten up a little bit. __________________ None Blog it.

02-10-2005, 06:50 PM	#32
MogulChamp All Star Reserve Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 656	Minzey Bowden Mcauliffe Vancini Greisbach Bussell Liao Shukraft Ponfick Wickersham

02-10-2005, 07:03 PM	#34
DamnYankees All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,644	Come on. The HOF is a special place. If I had my way, I would put a cap of 120 players in the HOF, forever. If someone is voted in, the lowest person is booted out. I've been to Cooperstown. I hope some of you have also. It's a religious experience, an amazing place. I hold it in incredibly high regard. I won't apologize for having high standards for the HOF.

02-10-2005, 07:09 PM	#35
ifspuds Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 2,117	I'm in the same camp with Vris and metsgeek. If a player is a Hall of Famer, he's a Hall of Famer. Doesn't matter how many other people are in, or how many other deserving people are on the ballot at once. It's patently ridiculous to limit the Hall of Fame (the real one, as suggested by DamnYankees) to 120 players. It's commemorating the greatest players of the game (granted, some probably don't belong there) and there's no limit on how many great players there can be as baseball continues on through this century. Besides, who gets to decide who the "worst of the best" are? How do you accurately compare eras? If you can do those things, you're way smarter than a whole lot of really smart baseball analysts. But the whole point of my long-winded post is to say that I think it's amazing that we're having this discussion for a league that only exists in a computer and in our minds. It really speaks to the power of the game, the league, and imagination. __________________ Jeff Watson Former dynasty writer and online league player, now mostly retired

02-10-2005, 08:13 PM	#38
rogmax11 All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,320	Yo! Dont be dissin' Bid McFee, the d00d could rake!

02-10-2005, 08:17 PM	#39
haggis007 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 115	This was really difficult. Some good players are likely going to fall off the ballot due to the depth here. Vancini Kinnear Misisca Schwarz Bussell Greisbach Wickersham Riley Ponfick Booth