Rate your GM - Page 2

KILLERBS24 · 03-05-2004, 05:07 AM

thats why I said Cashman was hard to rate, but alot of people will tell you that he is good, because of his situation its really hard to tell. As far Riccardi these ratings are so arguable who knows, but myself I would wait a few more years to see what Riccardi does before I said yeah he is one of the best, he may be. I'm a tough sell I guess. And I dont' think Cashmans are ridiculous they are above average ratings, nothing astronomical. And while you can say its easy to buy players I could name a few GM's and former GM's that would do a very good job screwing it up. Woody Williams when he was with Seattle, Duquette when he was in Boston, there are quite a few.

MannyTrillo · 03-05-2004, 05:09 AM

If you're going to go on the guy's actual record,

Theo Epstein: Hitting- 9. He brought in several cheap players who outperformed everyone else's expectations. Jeremy Giambi was the only bust, and he didn't cost very much. There's no flip side, he didn't commit serious resources to anyone who didn't pan out.

Pitching- 3. The starters were all already there, and the relief pitchers he brought in more or less stunk.

IMO Theo is a great GM who was very unlucky in terms of what happened to the pitchers he brought in, and a little bit lucky in terms of the hitters. But I think if you go by the actual results of the decisions he's made, 9 and 3 sounds about right.

Skipaway · 03-05-2004, 05:22 AM

• John Schuerholz, 1/1
• Terry Ryan, 1/1
• Walt Jocketty, 1/1
• Joe Garagiola Jr., 1/1
• Chuck LaMar, 1/1
• Gerry Hunsicker, 1/1
• Kevin Towers, 1/1
• Brian Sabean, 1/1
• Billy Beane, 10/10
• Ed Wade, 1/1
• Brian Cashman, 1/1
• Dan O'Dowd, 1/1
• Bill Stoneman, 1/1
• Allard Baird, 1/1
• Ken Williams, 1/1
• Dave Littlefield, 1/1
• John Hart, 1/1
• Mark Shapiro, 1/1
• David Dombrowski, 1/1
• J.P. Ricciardi, 3/3
• Larry Beinfest, 1/1
• Omar Minaya, 1/1
• Jim Hendry, 1/1
• Doug Melvin, 1/1
• Theo Epstein, 2/2
• Jim Beattie/Mike Flanagan, 1/1
• Jim Duquette, 1/1
• Dan O'Brien, 1/1
• Bill Bavasi, 1/1
• Paul DePodesta, 3/3

ctorg · 03-05-2004, 10:10 AM

I don't think Duquette's been GM of the Mets long enough to know how good he is. I guess I'd have to assume average.

TBDD · 03-05-2004, 11:04 AM

Atlanta GM: John Scherholz
Hitting: 6.5
Pitching: 9.5

ctorg · 03-05-2004, 12:23 PM

You know, I don't think you can really go with an overall rating for most GMs. I know the game limits us to that, but it seems to me that there are GMs who are situationally good. One might be good at dealing with a small payroll, another might be good at rebuilding a team, another might be good at putting a team together for a run at the playoffs. It would be cool to be able to hire based on specific skills like that. Hmmm. Maybe I should take this to Comments & Feedback.

Gastric ReFlux · 03-05-2004, 12:34 PM

What about clutch ability? You d00ds may knock on Ed Wade, but he's clutch when the season is on the line.

KurtBevacqua · 03-05-2004, 12:38 PM

Mark Shapiro, Cleveland

Hitting - 3.5
Pitching - 7

mlyons · 03-06-2004, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KILLERBS24
Expos GM: Omar Minaya
Hitting:5
Pitching:4

I'd have to give Minaya a little more credit than that. I can't imagine being in a worse situation as a GM, but's he seems to have done everything he could have conceivably done to keep his team somewhere close to competitive. How he manages to even get 25 guys to put on the field is beyond me, much less how they can actually win a couple games (even with two home fields). At least 6's, maybe 7's.

KILLERBS24 · 03-07-2004, 12:49 AM

The major part of the team was already there when Minaya arrived, Vazquez, Vidro, Guerrero, Cabrera. All the parts were there he didn't bring in any great talent. the only thing he's really done was Vazquez for Johnson and Rivera, which wasn't really a great deal but they were forced into it.

SoxWin · 03-07-2004, 05:52 PM

Bump

Teflon · 03-07-2004, 07:08 PM

Terry Ryan Hitting: 8 Pitching: 8

A lot of good players, both hitters and pitchers, have been developed through the farm system on Ryan's watch - Jacque Jones, Torii Hunter, David Ortiz, Corey Koskie, Doug Mientkiewicz, A.J. Pierzynski, Johan Santana, LaTroy Hawkins, Kyle Lohse. Unfortunately, the Twins can't afford to keep them very long. Ryan has also made timely and effective trades such as the Milton and Guzman for Chuck Knoblauch deal with the Yankees and the Bobby Kielty for Shannon Stewart trade last year. He has been able to plug a journeyman like Rick Reed or a Kenny Rogers into the rotation and have it work, as well. Given the constraints he works in, I'd say Terry Ryan does more with what he has than almost anyone in baseball - save a certain media darling in the bay area.

chrisj · 03-07-2004, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KILLERBS24

Toronto GM: JP Riccardi
Hitting:6
Pitching:5

Oakland GM: Billy Beane
Hitters:9
Pitchers:8

It's funny you write that... wasn't Riccardi the guy who suggested that the A's draft a couple of their Big 3?

LiftTheCurse · 03-07-2004, 08:04 PM

RedSox GM Theo Epstein

Hitting:9
Pitching:7

He brought in Millar/Ortiz/Mueller amoung others. They all had the best years of there careers, and were big parts in the redsox ALCS run last season.

I read in a post that epstein pitching that he brought in stunk. How is that? Since when does Scott Williamson/Curt Schilling/Kim suck? I know he had brought in more, those are just the ones on the top of my mind...Theo is one of the best GM's the redsox have ever had so far...

KILLERBS24 · 03-08-2004, 01:08 AM

Riccardi may have had some input but he by no means made the decisions in the A's draft. You cant give a guy credit for a pick he didn't make. We'll see how he does now that its his job on the line if things go wrong. Thats like saying Lee Mazzilli is gonna be a great coach because he worked with Torre and gave him input from time to time, it doesn't work like that.

mlyons · 03-08-2004, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LiftTheCurse
RedSox GM Theo Epstein

Hitting:9
Pitching:7

He brought in Millar/Ortiz/Mueller amoung others. They all had the best years of there careers, and were big parts in the redsox ALCS run last season.

I read in a post that epstein pitching that he brought in stunk. How is that? Since when does Scott Williamson/Curt Schilling/Kim suck? I know he had brought in more, those are just the ones on the top of my mind...Theo is one of the best GM's the redsox have ever had so far...

Scott Williamson had an ERA of 6.20 for the Red Sox last season; Kim had a good 3.12 ERA, but they still don't seem to have figured out what they want to do with him; Schilling (and Foulke) have yet to pitch for the Sox in a regular season game, so it seems like a good idea to reserve judgement on them. And those are the good ones.

Kezzek · 03-08-2004, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Teflon
Terry Ryan Hitting: 8 Pitching: 8

A lot of good players, both hitters and pitchers, have been developed through the farm system on Ryan's watch - Jacque Jones, Torii Hunter, David Ortiz, Corey Koskie, Doug Mientkiewicz, A.J. Pierzynski, Johan Santana, LaTroy Hawkins, Kyle Lohse. Unfortunately, the Twins can't afford to keep them very long. Ryan has also made timely and effective trades such as the Milton and Guzman for Chuck Knoblauch deal with the Yankees and the Bobby Kielty for Shannon Stewart trade last year. He has been able to plug a journeyman like Rick Reed or a Kenny Rogers into the rotation and have it work, as well. Given the constraints he works in, I'd say Terry Ryan does more with what he has than almost anyone in baseball - save a certain media darling in the bay area.

I'd have to agree with this.

draven085 · 03-08-2004, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mlyons
Scott Williamson had an ERA of 6.20 for the Red Sox last season; Kim had a good 3.12 ERA, but they still don't seem to have figured out what they want to do with him; Schilling (and Foulke) have yet to pitch for the Sox in a regular season game, so it seems like a good idea to reserve judgement on them. And those are the good ones.

No mention of Williamson's dominance in the playoffs? A 1.13 ERA and 0.75 WHIP are pretty damn good. I wouldn't go about judging the acquisition of a player on 20 innings anyway. Kim is the #5 starter this year. I would be very surprised if he isn't the best #5 starter in the league, and quite possibly the Sox 3rd best starter by the end of the year.

matskralc · 03-08-2004, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by draven085
No mention of Williamson's dominance in the playoffs? A 1.13 ERA and 0.75 WHIP are pretty damn good.

Yeah, he was clutch!

Skipaway · 03-08-2004, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Teflon
Terry Ryan Hitting: 8 Pitching: 8

A lot of good players, both hitters and pitchers, have been developed through the farm system on Ryan's watch - Jacque Jones, Torii Hunter, David Ortiz, Corey Koskie, Doug Mientkiewicz, A.J. Pierzynski, Johan Santana, LaTroy Hawkins, Kyle Lohse. Unfortunately, the Twins can't afford to keep them very long. Ryan has also made timely and effective trades such as the Milton and Guzman for Chuck Knoblauch deal with the Yankees and the Bobby Kielty for Shannon Stewart trade last year. He has been able to plug a journeyman like Rick Reed or a Kenny Rogers into the rotation and have it work, as well. Given the constraints he works in, I'd say Terry Ryan does more with what he has than almost anyone in baseball - save a certain media darling in the bay area.

The Twins haven't developed a single super star recently, with Johan Santana the only potential one. And among all the players mentioned, David Ortiz got the best single season performance overall, and Ryan let him go.

03-05-2004, 05:09 AM	#22
MannyTrillo All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 664	If you're going to go on the guy's actual record, Theo Epstein: Hitting- 9. He brought in several cheap players who outperformed everyone else's expectations. Jeremy Giambi was the only bust, and he didn't cost very much. There's no flip side, he didn't commit serious resources to anyone who didn't pan out. Pitching- 3. The starters were all already there, and the relief pitchers he brought in more or less stunk. IMO Theo is a great GM who was very unlucky in terms of what happened to the pitchers he brought in, and a little bit lucky in terms of the hitters. But I think if you go by the actual results of the decisions he's made, 9 and 3 sounds about right. __________________ Poster emeritus "Not butchery, dining!!" obt sk cmh ct President, A-1 Aces OT Posting Club Click here to join

03-05-2004, 05:22 AM	#23
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	• John Schuerholz, 1/1 • Terry Ryan, 1/1 • Walt Jocketty, 1/1 • Joe Garagiola Jr., 1/1 • Chuck LaMar, 1/1 • Gerry Hunsicker, 1/1 • Kevin Towers, 1/1 • Brian Sabean, 1/1 • Billy Beane, 10/10 • Ed Wade, 1/1 • Brian Cashman, 1/1 • Dan O'Dowd, 1/1 • Bill Stoneman, 1/1 • Allard Baird, 1/1 • Ken Williams, 1/1 • Dave Littlefield, 1/1 • John Hart, 1/1 • Mark Shapiro, 1/1 • David Dombrowski, 1/1 • J.P. Ricciardi, 3/3 • Larry Beinfest, 1/1 • Omar Minaya, 1/1 • Jim Hendry, 1/1 • Doug Melvin, 1/1 • Theo Epstein, 2/2 • Jim Beattie/Mike Flanagan, 1/1 • Jim Duquette, 1/1 • Dan O'Brien, 1/1 • Bill Bavasi, 1/1 • Paul DePodesta, 3/3 __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.

03-05-2004, 10:10 AM	#24
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	I don't think Duquette's been GM of the Mets long enough to know how good he is. I guess I'd have to assume average. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

03-05-2004, 11:04 AM	#25
TBDD Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Northeast USA Posts: 21	Atlanta GM: John Scherholz Hitting: 6.5 Pitching: 9.5 __________________ "Esther, everytime I look at you, it makes me wish that birth control was retroactive!" - Fred Sanford

03-05-2004, 12:23 PM	#26
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	You know, I don't think you can really go with an overall rating for most GMs. I know the game limits us to that, but it seems to me that there are GMs who are situationally good. One might be good at dealing with a small payroll, another might be good at rebuilding a team, another might be good at putting a team together for a run at the playoffs. It would be cool to be able to hire based on specific skills like that. Hmmm. Maybe I should take this to Comments & Feedback. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

03-05-2004, 05:07 AM	#21
KILLERBS24 All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 938	thats why I said Cashman was hard to rate, but alot of people will tell you that he is good, because of his situation its really hard to tell. As far Riccardi these ratings are so arguable who knows, but myself I would wait a few more years to see what Riccardi does before I said yeah he is one of the best, he may be. I'm a tough sell I guess. And I dont' think Cashmans are ridiculous they are above average ratings, nothing astronomical. And while you can say its easy to buy players I could name a few GM's and former GM's that would do a very good job screwing it up. Woody Williams when he was with Seattle, Duquette when he was in Boston, there are quite a few.

03-05-2004, 12:34 PM	#27
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	What about clutch ability? You d00ds may knock on Ed Wade, but he's clutch when the season is on the line.

03-05-2004, 12:38 PM	#28
KurtBevacqua Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2,968	Mark Shapiro, Cleveland Hitting - 3.5 Pitching - 7 __________________ "The type and formula of most schemes of philanthropy or humanitarianism is this: A and B put their heads together to decide what C shall be made to do for D. The radical vice of all these schemes, from a sociological point of view, is that C is not allowed a voice in the matter, and his position, character, and interests, as well as the ultimate effects on society through C's interests, are entirely overlooked. I call C the Forgotten Man" - William Graham Sumner

03-07-2004, 12:49 AM	#30
KILLERBS24 All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 938	The major part of the team was already there when Minaya arrived, Vazquez, Vidro, Guerrero, Cabrera. All the parts were there he didn't bring in any great talent. the only thing he's really done was Vazquez for Johnson and Rivera, which wasn't really a great deal but they were forced into it.

03-07-2004, 05:52 PM	#31
SoxWin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Blissful ignorance Posts: 3,315	Bump __________________ It's called partying. When you do a lot of it, you're bound to be places where the police show up. I smoke a lot of pot and drink a lot of beer. I also graduated Suma Cum Laude. ****ing sue me. - Luis Rivera

03-07-2004, 07:08 PM	#32
Teflon Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 154	Terry Ryan Hitting: 8 Pitching: 8 A lot of good players, both hitters and pitchers, have been developed through the farm system on Ryan's watch - Jacque Jones, Torii Hunter, David Ortiz, Corey Koskie, Doug Mientkiewicz, A.J. Pierzynski, Johan Santana, LaTroy Hawkins, Kyle Lohse. Unfortunately, the Twins can't afford to keep them very long. Ryan has also made timely and effective trades such as the Milton and Guzman for Chuck Knoblauch deal with the Yankees and the Bobby Kielty for Shannon Stewart trade last year. He has been able to plug a journeyman like Rick Reed or a Kenny Rogers into the rotation and have it work, as well. Given the constraints he works in, I'd say Terry Ryan does more with what he has than almost anyone in baseball - save a certain media darling in the bay area.

03-07-2004, 08:04 PM	#34
LiftTheCurse Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 633	RedSox GM Theo Epstein Hitting:9 Pitching:7 He brought in Millar/Ortiz/Mueller amoung others. They all had the best years of there careers, and were big parts in the redsox ALCS run last season. I read in a post that epstein pitching that he brought in stunk. How is that? Since when does Scott Williamson/Curt Schilling/Kim suck? I know he had brought in more, those are just the ones on the top of my mind...Theo is one of the best GM's the redsox have ever had so far... __________________ http://lotg.christianbaseball.com Philadelphia Phillies/ NL President(1901)23-16 Best Record in the League http://www.ulb.simleaguecentral.com Baltimore Orioles 2004 AL EAST CHAMPION 2005:13-5:1st in AL East

03-08-2004, 01:08 AM	#35
KILLERBS24 All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 938	Riccardi may have had some input but he by no means made the decisions in the A's draft. You cant give a guy credit for a pick he didn't make. We'll see how he does now that its his job on the line if things go wrong. Thats like saying Lee Mazzilli is gonna be a great coach because he worked with Torre and gave him input from time to time, it doesn't work like that.