Your personality shows. - Page 2

rem · 11-01-2003, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LivnLegend
I usually get attached to my players and prefer to build through the draft and free agency.

I’ll respond to trade talks with a yes or no and rarely counter

Me too.

scotto313 · 11-01-2003, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LivnLegend
In the USBA, I rarely trade and I don’t usually initiate the trade talks. I’ll respond to trade talks with a yes or no and rarely counter.

I may end up with this philosophy also.

Viva Los Expos · 11-01-2003, 05:36 PM

Quote:

We're talking about raping someone in a trade, not helping them run their team... it's really just common sense....

When I talk about "running their team," I mean to include things like trades, drafting, etc. -- basically all of the decisions an owner makes.

I hate to sound in this thread like the defender of lopsided trades. My position is pretty much the same as LivnLegend 's posted above, and the opposite of the unnamed Maelstrom owner he mentions. I assume the other owners are just as smart as me, and will -- like me -- stop talking to people who waste their time with insultingly bad offers. (Slightly off-topic -- this is why I won't join any leagues that require the use of any kind of instant messenger software other than for drafts or league meetings. I once was in such a league, and after only a day was already sick of being constantly interrupted by awful trade offers. Email is much less intrusive.)

In short, I don't make ripoff trade offers (can we maybe ease off on the "rape" terminology?) because it's just plain bad for business.

And of course, if I'm a commissioner in the league, it's my job to regulate trades. If I'm both commissioner and owner, there's a conflict of interest there that should always yield to the best interests of the league. But if I'm just an owner and someone offers me a sweet deal, I won't turn it down. (I won't kick up a fuss if it gets vetoed, though.)

pat · 11-01-2003, 05:41 PM

i just try to improve my team, thats my priority.. well, i try to think that other GM knows what they're doing so i dont think i can rip them at all..

kq76 · 11-01-2003, 08:21 PM

I think all this is just really silly. If it's that bad of an offer then the offeree will have very little patience for the offeror in the future, so the latter is just hurting himself with the insulting offer.

However, if someone does accept what to some people seems like a ludicrous trade and you're sure there's no cheating involved, then why should you be upset? I'm sure most of us have been hosed before and I'm sure most of us have ended up doing the hosing. This game, like most games, is about matching wits. What wit matching is going on if you have to say, "You know what, forget that offer you just accepted, you deserve more. Take my 2nd rd pick too.". That's just silly. For commishes I can see where there might be a problem as they most likely know the league better, but between simple GMs I don't see the problem. Trades are hard enough to come by that you don't need to make it even harder by questioning whether it's a good deal for your opponent as well.

Now if you're just complaining about getting insulting offers, then I can understand that as I've gotten my fair share. But in those circumstances you just say something like, "that's far less than what I was looking for". And if they want up their offer then fine, if not that's fine too. It's really not that big of a deal.

scotto313 · 11-01-2003, 08:30 PM

Thank you for your input. I obviously disagree with your belief that my opinions are "really silly".

jaxmagicman · 11-02-2003, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by scotto313
Thank you for your input. I obviously disagree with your belief that my opinions are "really silly".

Scoto just a question, what do you think of my Character in trading.

scotto313 · 11-02-2003, 11:33 AM

Jax, I have not been insulted by your offers. We have had many discussions and they have all been good. I do not believe you intend to rip me off when you try to strengthen your team. Your offers for the most part have been fair and balanced.

jaxmagicman · 11-03-2003, 08:55 AM

Well that is good, I thought maybe you were upset with the way Tyson turned into a stud.

Jason · 11-03-2003, 10:57 AM

I know when an owner sends me an offer that is an obvious rip off attempt I lose almost all respect for them and usually don't deal with them in the future. It immediately puts into my mind doubt that I can get a fair trade with that person.

I think there's a difference between trying to make an offer that is slanted a bit in your direction and insulting the intelligence of the other owner.

Karen Lutz · 11-04-2003, 05:48 AM

it's amazing what some people think is an insult though..... I guess in OOL we don't worry much about trading do we? I make ALL the trades there! LOL

This thread is sort of amusing to me, because there is no way everyone will ever agree to one philosophy. I guess in all honesty, I am one of those people who would take the $100 and turn in just the wallet, say i found it like that......why? because I am poor and the wallets contents are usually more valuable than the cash, I dunno what that says about me, lol, finders keepers?

Irrelivant point because I know I am a good person who goes out of my way to help others, but since almost no one has ever helped me, I take what I can get, including that lost $100.

scotto313 · 11-04-2003, 12:33 PM

Your Avitar says alot.

Deft · 11-04-2003, 03:38 PM

Scott, I think you shouldn't read so much into idle chit chat about a game. Granted you find out a lot about how people view others, but most people interact much differently in real life when struck with the same circumstances.

Me personally, when it comes to trading I almost always give my best offer right off the bat. Haggling sometimes but usually only on the finer points of the deal. I figure if I play fair upfront, the other party will do likewise.

clarnzz · 11-04-2003, 04:22 PM

I usually make a good offer up front, if the owner doesn't have the sense to accept, I try to get them fired in hopes the new owner will have a little more sense.

scotto313 · 11-04-2003, 04:32 PM

I read too much into everything, but that is just my nature.

Karen Lutz · 11-04-2003, 05:39 PM

I also think this is the best new thread going....... I love these sorts of debates, you will always learn something in these, lol.

I often want a player so bad in trades that I end up giving up too much....I don't often get the better of any deal, but it somehow works out for the best usually.

holyroller · 11-05-2003, 07:31 AM

Of course, this also begs the question, what makes an trade one sided?

Let's say that owner A has a pitcher rated 9 in avoiding runs, has put up three straight seasons of 200+ IP and sub-3.00 ERA's. Owner B offers a 23 year old OF playing in AA who is is rated good in hitting for average, average in home runs, and good in drawing walks. Owner A accepts the offer. Is this trade one sided? It is easy to jump out and say YES! but what if the pitcher is in the last year of his deal, wants an extension worth 15 million a year, and owner A is barely going to be under the salary cap for the next season as it is. He has offered the pitcher around the league but everyone knows what a tight spot owner A is in and is lowballing him. The team is out of contention so holding on to him does him no good. Now would you say it is one sided?

This is really not as cut and dried as it seems at first glance. What is a lopsided deal to one person is fair to another. I am always suspicious of people who are quick to judge the moves of another owner.

imation · 11-05-2003, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by holyroller
Of course, this also begs the question, what makes an trade one sided?

Let's say that owner A has a pitcher rated 9 in avoiding runs, has put up three straight seasons of 200+ IP and sub-3.00 ERA's. Owner B offers a 23 year old OF playing in AA who is is rated good in hitting for average, average in home runs, and good in drawing walks. Owner A accepts the offer. Is this trade one sided? It is easy to jump out and say YES! but what if the pitcher is in the last year of his deal, wants an extension worth 15 million a year, and owner A is barely going to be under the salary cap for the next season as it is. He has offered the pitcher around the league but everyone knows what a tight spot owner A is in and is lowballing him. The team is out of contention so holding on to him does him no good. Now would you say it is one sided?

This is really not as cut and dried as it seems at first glance. What is a lopsided deal to one person is fair to another. I am always suspicious of people who are quick to judge the moves of another owner.

I have to agree with this post. There are many reasons a person is making a trade and the only people that know the reasons are the owner making the trade and the owner accepting the trade, and even they don't know each others intentions. I dropped out of one league once because a trade I made got vetoed because the Commish said it was unfair to me. I sent a 5 star pitching prospect to a guy for a Second Baseman and a Shortstop who had A's in defense and speed and nothing else, (IE. Couldn't hit or draw walks) The commish thought I was giving up too much, or I was tanking. The real reason I made the traded was because they could play D and their contracts were up at the end of the year and I would have big money for two players I had always wanted that were going into free agency, but I wasn't going to tell my Commish that. I told him it was for their D and he said that is not enough. Why would he care? I was far out of first, I was trying to get my team back in contention. The pitching prospect wasn't helping me win. There is no way he could say I was tanking. I was really peeved that he questioned why I made the trade. He also told me I didn't have enough pitching. Now when the commish tries to run your team. It is time to get out, I see it all the time when a commish blocks a trade he thinks is unfair. There is a fine-line between doing it for the sake of the league and doing it because you don't understand the move. That is why I applaud the commishes that do it right.

Deft · 11-06-2003, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by imation
I dropped out of one league once because a trade I made got vetoed because the Commish said it was unfair to me. I sent a 5 star pitching prospect to a guy for a Second Baseman and a Shortstop who had A's in defense and speed and nothing else, (IE. Couldn't hit or draw walks) The commish thought I was giving up too much, or I was tanking. The real reason I made the traded was because they could play D and their contracts were up at the end of the year and I would have big money for two players I had always wanted that were going into free agency, but I wasn't going to tell my Commish that.

What your saying is you wanted to free up your payroll so you'd have cash at the end of the year. So you traded a top prospect making no money for two weak hitting middle infielders who have salaries? There's not a lot of logic in that move and I can easily see how that would get dinged.

imation · 11-06-2003, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Deft
What your saying is you wanted to free up your payroll so you'd have cash at the end of the year. So you traded a top prospect making no money for two weak hitting middle infielders who have salaries? There's not a lot of logic in that move and I can easily see how that would get dinged.

I had a taker for my starting Shortstop and Second Baseman, and I had told the commish that, and since my SS and 2B had better ratings than the ones I traded my Prospect for, the commish said that was even more prove that I was tanking. First off the SS and 2B I had on my team were good hitters but had D's and E's in range. They also had no speed. I like Defense and Speed. I am not a big fan of Hitting. I will take it if I can get it, but I would always rather go for speed and D over the bat. The point was the commish had no right to tell me I was tanking before giving me a chance to manage my team, my way. Just because he valued hitting over defense and speed did not give him the right to try to force me to value hitting over speed and defense.

11-01-2003, 05:41 PM	#24
pat Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Quezon City, Philippines Posts: 2,748	i just try to improve my team, thats my priority.. well, i try to think that other GM knows what they're doing so i dont think i can rip them at all.. __________________ Co-Founder & Technical Director at ExaWeb Corporation, an SEO company in the Philippines. Previous Leagues - Time Warp Baseball / International Federation of Baseball / Professional Baseball Replay League / No Pepper Baseball League / MLB Pro Current OOTP 24 Leagues - Sim Sports Gaming - (2016-Present) Washington Nationals (2016-2022) *2017 Champions Oakland Athletics (2023-Present)

11-01-2003, 08:21 PM	#25
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 12,041	I think all this is just really silly. If it's that bad of an offer then the offeree will have very little patience for the offeror in the future, so the latter is just hurting himself with the insulting offer. However, if someone does accept what to some people seems like a ludicrous trade and you're sure there's no cheating involved, then why should you be upset? I'm sure most of us have been hosed before and I'm sure most of us have ended up doing the hosing. This game, like most games, is about matching wits. What wit matching is going on if you have to say, "You know what, forget that offer you just accepted, you deserve more. Take my 2nd rd pick too.". That's just silly. For commishes I can see where there might be a problem as they most likely know the league better, but between simple GMs I don't see the problem. Trades are hard enough to come by that you don't need to make it even harder by questioning whether it's a good deal for your opponent as well. Now if you're just complaining about getting insulting offers, then I can understand that as I've gotten my fair share. But in those circumstances you just say something like, "that's far less than what I was looking for". And if they want up their offer then fine, if not that's fine too. It's really not that big of a deal. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) For Beta/Devs: Full screen (1920x1080)

11-03-2003, 08:55 AM	#29
jaxmagicman Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Retired defloration-maker living in Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 7,801	Well that is good, I thought maybe you were upset with the way Tyson turned into a stud. __________________ See ID Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

11-04-2003, 03:38 PM	#33
Deft All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,113	Scott, I think you shouldn't read so much into idle chit chat about a game. Granted you find out a lot about how people view others, but most people interact much differently in real life when struck with the same circumstances. Me personally, when it comes to trading I almost always give my best offer right off the bat. Haggling sometimes but usually only on the finer points of the deal. I figure if I play fair upfront, the other party will do likewise. __________________ ATHL Louisville Jockeys (2001-present) 2002, 2007, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2020 World Champions Uniform Template 1.2

11-05-2003, 07:31 AM	#37
holyroller Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: OTBL Forums Posts: 3,532	Of course, this also begs the question, what makes an trade one sided? Let's say that owner A has a pitcher rated 9 in avoiding runs, has put up three straight seasons of 200+ IP and sub-3.00 ERA's. Owner B offers a 23 year old OF playing in AA who is is rated good in hitting for average, average in home runs, and good in drawing walks. Owner A accepts the offer. Is this trade one sided? It is easy to jump out and say YES! but what if the pitcher is in the last year of his deal, wants an extension worth 15 million a year, and owner A is barely going to be under the salary cap for the next season as it is. He has offered the pitcher around the league but everyone knows what a tight spot owner A is in and is lowballing him. The team is out of contention so holding on to him does him no good. Now would you say it is one sided? This is really not as cut and dried as it seems at first glance. What is a lopsided deal to one person is fair to another. I am always suspicious of people who are quick to judge the moves of another owner. __________________ Back to work, but not drawing a paycheck. TonyJ et. al.'s alias “I confused it with the chicken’s neck,” Mocanu, who was admitted to the emergency hospital in Galati, was quoted as saying. “I cut it ... and the dog rushed and ate it.”

11-01-2003, 08:30 PM	#26
scotto313 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,220	Thank you for your input. I obviously disagree with your belief that my opinions are "really silly".

11-02-2003, 11:33 AM	#28
scotto313 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,220	Jax, I have not been insulted by your offers. We have had many discussions and they have all been good. I do not believe you intend to rip me off when you try to strengthen your team. Your offers for the most part have been fair and balanced.

11-03-2003, 10:57 AM	#30
Jason Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,855	I know when an owner sends me an offer that is an obvious rip off attempt I lose almost all respect for them and usually don't deal with them in the future. It immediately puts into my mind doubt that I can get a fair trade with that person. I think there's a difference between trying to make an offer that is slanted a bit in your direction and insulting the intelligence of the other owner.

11-04-2003, 05:48 AM	#31
Karen Lutz Ball Breaker Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canada OOTPChampionships: 5 Posts: 898	it's amazing what some people think is an insult though..... I guess in OOL we don't worry much about trading do we? I make ALL the trades there! LOL This thread is sort of amusing to me, because there is no way everyone will ever agree to one philosophy. I guess in all honesty, I am one of those people who would take the $100 and turn in just the wallet, say i found it like that......why? because I am poor and the wallets contents are usually more valuable than the cash, I dunno what that says about me, lol, finders keepers? Irrelivant point because I know I am a good person who goes out of my way to help others, but since almost no one has ever helped me, I take what I can get, including that lost $100.

11-04-2003, 12:33 PM	#32
scotto313 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,220	Your Avitar says alot.

11-04-2003, 04:22 PM	#34
clarnzz All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Following everyone off a cliff. Posts: 1,522	I usually make a good offer up front, if the owner doesn't have the sense to accept, I try to get them fired in hopes the new owner will have a little more sense.

11-04-2003, 04:32 PM	#35
scotto313 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,220	I read too much into everything, but that is just my nature.

11-04-2003, 05:39 PM	#36
Karen Lutz Ball Breaker Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canada OOTPChampionships: 5 Posts: 898	I also think this is the best new thread going....... I love these sorts of debates, you will always learn something in these, lol. I often want a player so bad in trades that I end up giving up too much....I don't often get the better of any deal, but it somehow works out for the best usually.