OOTPB Staff: Why no Graphics or Logos Forum?

[kq76]

Originally posted by Cuss16
Steve has already said that there will not be a sub forum.

Link?

If there is no link, what was his reason? Unless all the posts were costing them a whole lot of money (if that were a reason tho, I don't think we'd have reason for the OT or sports boards), or a new board would, then I don't see it as being a wise decision at all. Even if it does cost extra money for another board, isn't all the interest it generates for the game worth that cost? Maybe, maybe not, but I think you at least have to look at that. Think about it, the OOTP community would lose a lot of members if we didn't have the sports or OT boards and by losing members they'd likely be losing customers. If a graphics board does the opposite, isn't that a good thing?? Steve or Markus might not be big into graphics, but if there's a subgroup of OOTP people that find this to be one of the more interesting aspects of the game or community, then maybe S&M just aren't seeing the value that you guys do bring. Again, maybe they need to rethink their decision.

[couriers]

Originally posted by Cuss16
Why should graphics get one more forum but not cato, or bosi or any other databases.

They already do, it's called the MODs Forum and up until recently the graphics were included in this forum. Why should they need to be removed and taken to a general graphics forum? People wanted organization among the OOTP boards and were not calling for a new and seperate board to have to visit. Your site is great but for those of us that are not interest in generalized graphics for many different games it becomes more than what we want to deal with.

As far as my comments about OOTP having to make the decisions and not people like yourself, well it seems that the comments were taken a bit too personally and way out of context. They were not meant that way.

[couriers]

Whether or not the graphics are a main feature of OOTP is irrelevant. The customers seem to enjoy that particular aspect of the game and therefore deserve to have their thoughts and ideas heard regardless of how unimportant someone else might consider the whole issue.

I personally don’t believe that dynasty reports or online leagues are that important in regards to how I enjoy the game but they have their own subforums simply because the need was there. It’s a simply process of supply and demand. The demand for graphics at one point dictated the supply of a separate forum. The solution that had transpired was an off site board but to many of us that only made this board that less appealing to visit as often as we had.

[kq76]

Here's a thought..

Merge the "Season Ticket Baseball" boards (2) into the "Previous OOTP Versions" board. It's the same as OOTP4, right? They're not affiliated with that publisher anymore.

Merge the "Cards & Memorabilia Trading Post" into the OT board. Very few people ever use it and it's not vital this community.

Get rid of the "Announcements" board. 1 post? Oh yeah, that's useful. You can add links to any announcements in the latest news section at the top of this forum.

Finally, since there's a few games here, create a "Graphics" board in the general section, so it's for all the games, not just OOTP.

And while we're at it, move the FAQ to the top of OOTP section and add more to it.

[Andy]

Yeah, I think you guys were reading too much into couriers' comment. He was just saying that Steve should take the responsibility and make a new forum, rather than you guys doing it on your own site. I also think, and I'm sure couriers agrees with me, that you guys have a helluva site and of course do great work.

[Andy]

Originally posted by kq76
Here's a thought..

Merge the "Season Ticket Baseball" boards (2) into the "Previous OOTP Versions" board. It's the same as OOTP4, right? They're not affiliated with that publisher anymore.

Merge the "Cards & Memorabilia Trading Post" into the OT board. Very few people ever use it and it's not vital this community.

Get rid of the "Announcements" board. 1 post? Oh yeah, that's useful. You can add links to any announcements in the latest news section at the top of this forum.

Finally, since there's a few games here, create a "Graphics" board in the general section, so it's for all the games, not just OOTP.

And while we're at it, move the FAQ to the top of OOTP section and add more to it.

Perfect.

[couriers]

I am with them ^^^^

[couriers]

Originally posted by Andy
Yeah, I think you guys were reading too much into couriers' comment. He was just saying that Steve should take the responsibility and make a new forum, rather than you guys doing it on your own site. I also think, and I'm sure couriers agrees with me, that you guys have a helluva site and of course do great work.

Thank you. I agree completely that they have a great site and do excellent work. There should be no doubt about my appreciation and respect for the high quality graphics and hard work that these designers bring to our community. I would just like to see our community grow stronger here instead of being divided and would love to see those in charge going the extra mile instead of relying on cuss and dbacks to do it for them.

[Cuss16]

I don't get the part about "doing it for them", for who? For us you mean? This is a hobby forum for ppl who like to do graphics logos, not a ootp forum. Can't you guys get that?

[Cuss16]

It's suppose to be fun doing this, if there was no fun in this than there will be no forum.

And sorry kq i dont have a link it was from a PM.

[couriers]

Originally posted by Cuss16
I don't get the part about "doing it for them", for who? For us you mean? This is a hobby forum for ppl who like to do graphics logos, not a ootp forum. Can't you guys get that?

Didn't you start a poll asking us if your separate forum would be a good solution to the graphics situation on this board back before you actually made your forum?

"I came up with kinda a solution, I set up a forum for my up and coming modified site. And you can post up requests there for logos and other graphical stuff for your league. So we wont mess up the forum here and can keep it more organized."

It came across to me right from the beginning that you were attempting to resolve some issues that some members had with this board. Sorry if this was misinterpreted.

I understand that your board is about having fun and doing what you love to do in the sense of a hobby but there is no need to keep taking our simple statements about this issue so personally and negatively. This isn't about being against you or anything that you do and I never meant for it to come across that way.

[Cuss16]

Of course my enjopyment is the number one reason for doing this. Why else would i do something i don't enjoy for a company that isn't paying me. Sorry if i didnt' make it clear, when i made the forum i just wanted to get rid of all of the controvercial and just focus on making logos and have fun. That's why i made an extra forum so no one will be able to complain since the logos will still be there for viewing at any time, ad nothing will need to be organized here. It seemed like a perfect solution.

[TC Dale]

The Season Ticket Baseball Forum won't be moved into previous versions of OOTP, since it isn't technically a part of OOTP. The game was published by Infogrames and they used the OOTP engine to make the game.

Infogrames was bought out by another organization, and their board support was rather bleak to say the least.

For those fans that still have the game, we leave it open to let them have a place to ask technical support questions, and gameplay questions, and to possibly get new fans of OOTP. You can't merge that forum into previous versions, because the fans that bought Season Ticket Baseball would not know where to go for help or to ask questions.

For the ongoing discussion about mods and graphics, I would say that each particular third party mod from GForce's database, to Cuss' graphics, Cato's fine work, and Henry's great stadia packs all deserve EQUAL time.

Now, let's see if you guys can remember this:
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...threadid=38900

Or this:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...threadid=38901


That was an attempt to organize it to 2 different threads so folks could get offers requested and mod creators to check in one location for possible jobs.

It has set there since July. And no one used it since. If you can't keep it organized to two threads in a forum, then how can Steve take you guys seriously for a subforum?

Put your money where your mouth is fellows.

If you really want a place of your own, that is a start. If folks would get on the same page, and work together INSTEAD of arguing about ticky tacky POV's, you might be able to get their attention.

I believe you guys could do more by actions than words...I know I would take more credence in what you want if you guys were organized.

If Steve can't allow subfora for it, then this is your best bet for the meantime. Use those two threads, abuse them but don't crosspost between them, or post on the main mods forum, because you want to be "noticed".

Use what you have and work towards getting something that would be easier.

I love Ran's site, and Cuss' sites, and Highly recommend them. Henry has an awesome site, and Tiger Fan can help you as well. GForce has many things to offer as well as Cato, Pierre has things as well...

So many things, so many opportunities. You guys are the greatest. But let's try it where everyone uses the same thing, or process instead of carping about "they won't let us do this, or that.."

Create change by making a concerted effort to doing the organized single-minded approach. I offer those two threads for folks to use, but, if you decide not to, and make your own, that is fine.


JUST DO IT. Make it easier for folks to find what they want, or need. Ask your Mod creators what is easier for them. Pull together , not against each other.

[couriers]

I already commented on your individual thread ideas in a few posts above and I still don't think that they would work for the same reasons that I have already stated. If we are going to give every mod its equal share then why force the graphics into 1 or 2 threads while the others get a whole forum? Are we going to make sure that all Cato and all BOSI information gets posted into one thread?

And as I have already stated as well, it shouldn't be our responsibility to get organized. It should be done via the board management to better help and to better serve their customers. Putting this on our shoulders is just not reasonable nor fair to begin with.

[kq76]

No disrespect TC Dale, but I think you're being a bit unrealistic on some points.

Originally posted by TC Dale
The Season Ticket Baseball Forum won't be moved into previous versions of OOTP, since it isn't technically a part of OOTP. The game was published by Infogrames and they used the OOTP engine to make the game.

Infogrames was bought out by another organization, and their board support was rather bleak to say the least.

For those fans that still have the game, we leave it open to let them have a place to ask technical support questions, and gameplay questions, and to possibly get new fans of OOTP. You can't merge that forum into previous versions, because the fans that bought Season Ticket Baseball would not know where to go for help or to ask questions.

Good points all. I didn't realize that STB wasn't an exact copy of OOTP. I figured your point about STBers not knowing where to go would be brought up. But I thought that if they were the same, that you could post somewhere that they were the same, and all questions pertaining to one would be applicable to the other. But that's not the case, so ok.

Now, let's see if you guys can remember this:
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...threadid=38900

Or this:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...threadid=38901


That was an attempt to organize it to 2 different threads so folks could get offers requested and mod creators to check in one location for possible jobs.

It has set there since July. And no one used it since. If you can't keep it organized to two threads in a forum, then how can Steve take you guys seriously for a subforum?

Put your money where your mouth is fellows.

If you really want a place of your own, that is a start. If folks would get on the same page, and work together INSTEAD of arguing about ticky tacky POV's, you might be able to get their attention.

I believe you guys could do more by actions than words...I know I would take more credence in what you want if you guys were organized.

If Steve can't allow subfora for it, then this is your best bet for the meantime. Use those two threads, abuse them but don't crosspost between them, or post on the main mods forum, because you want to be "noticed".

Use what you have and work towards getting something that would be easier.

I love Ran's site, and Cuss' sites, and Highly recommend them. Henry has an awesome site, and Tiger Fan can help you as well. GForce has many things to offer as well as Cato, Pierre has things as well...

So many things, so many opportunities. You guys are the greatest. But let's try it where everyone uses the same thing, or process instead of carping about "they won't let us do this, or that.."

Create change by making a concerted effort to doing the organized single-minded approach. I offer those two threads for folks to use, but, if you decide not to, and make your own, that is fine.


JUST DO IT. Make it easier for folks to find what they want, or need. Ask your Mod creators what is easier for them. Pull together , not against each other.

Ok, those threads, though a decent idea, just are not a practical alternative. Let me explain way. Let's assume that you were successful in getting people to use them on an ongoing basis. Just imagine how chaotic it would have been to follow all the different conversations about all the different requests and produced graphics in one thread. I'm sorry, but there's just no way in hell that would work.

As for there being all these different sites out there, let's be realistic, it's a joke. I don't mean they are jokes (seriously, all you guys should be commended for all your hard work), I mean the system is. And for ootpd to say (I'm considering you a spokesperson for ootpd) that this highly unorganized system (of all these different sites carrying some things and not others, carrying thing others carry, here today gone tomorrow, no uniformity) is acceptable (correct me if you feel I'm putting words in your mouth), is a plain cop out.

You want an "organized single-minded approach"? Well guess what, so does most everyone here. But unless the company that is the center of this community and has the most at stake of this being a successful community steps up to the plate and makes a concerted effort to organize things better, things are going to be the same bungled mess that they have apparently been for years. It'd be great if some member stepped up to the plate, spent their own money and almost all of their free time putting together this utopian system, but I think it's completely unrealistic to expect someone who is not paid by the company to do that. And for it not to be part of the company and its website is wrong too as there's no expectation at all for uniformity or continuity. Don't tell us to put our money where our mouth is, you have our money. I guess the question becomes, do you want more of it, or not?

[Cuss16]

Not trying to be a jackass and take the company's side but i dont know if ootp is suppose to be focused heavily on the graphics part. I mean, most of the logos that i have done are for online leagues (web pages) and pretty much unrelated to the game directly...

[kq76]

Originally posted by Cuss16
Not trying to be a jackass and take the company's side but i dont know if ootp is suppose to be focused heavily on the graphics part. I mean, most of the logos that i have done are for online leagues and pretty much unrelated to the game directly...

Cuss, if it weren't for the game, there wouldn't be requests for the graphics and you guys wouldn't get whatever you get out creating them. And similarly, if it weren't for the interest of the fans in whatever aspect of the game, there wouldn't be a game, there wouldn't be an OOTP developments, and Steve and Markus and whoever else would probably be doing a job that they'd like much less than they do this one. Are the graphics a focus for S&M? Probably not. Should the sizeable community that is interested in that aspect at least have an organized system in place for it? Sure they should!

[Cuss16]

I dont think there was a huge demand for fictinal logos before dbacks, Shub and myself got here. I can pretty much be safe to say that we created the demand. Before we got here there wasn't even a mod forum.

[Cuss16]

so in a way, this is our fault. We gave too much to the people and now they can't be satisfied. I remember when i first came to the boards the largest source of fictional logo was Henry's fictional packs. There was no such thing as a request and someone will make a logo for you.

[kq76]

Originally posted by Cuss16
I dont think there was a huge demand for fictinal logos before dbacks, Shub and myself got here. I can pretty much be safe to say that we created the demand. Before we got here there wasn't even a mod forum.

And is this huge demand still here? No, not really. Are you guys still here? Yes. Do producers create demand? No, not really. Marketers and customers do.

I'm not going to argue the chicken and the egg with you Cuss. It really doesn't matter who came first. What matters is things being as successful as they can be, and they just aren't right now.