2003 OOTP5 Pay League with cash prizes starting in near future.. - Page 2

CommishJoe · 05-24-2003, 11:40 AM

Interesting idea. $20 might be a bit much (depends on how long each season takes) but it could be up to $80/year (TLB runs about 4 seasons a year). I, for one, wouldn't make that kind of investment.

Also, if you could have other prizes, it could keep teams interested. Having the OOTP rookie of league would get you $10, stuff like that.

Good luck with this!

NYM Jason Phillips 23 · 05-24-2003, 11:49 AM

I just dont see anyone that would join this, i dont think anyone would TRUST you (im not questioning your integity) but i doubt youll get anyone to join, how will they know that your not going to take all thier money and not start the league- or join as a team on a different name or something and cheat to win it all? like i said, im not AT ALL saying your gunna do this, but it is gunna run threw everyones mind's when they think about joining.

kq76 · 05-24-2003, 12:18 PM

A few comments..

I really don't think you should use the word "investing". I suspect you're using the word investing as it is much less threatening and risk sounding as gambling is. But what I'm hearing is approximately 30 people putting up 20$ each, that totals 600$ and only one gets 200$ of that 600$? Hmm.. Nice healthy profit for you. And a very _very_ bad "investment" for the 30 people. Why do I say it's bad? Well a 1 chance in 30 to either multiply your money by 10 or end up with nothing (and that's _if_ you don't screw them over!) is not a very good possible or likely return for the risk. "VERY likely" my ass.. And the whole dan4christ thing, as if that's not to get people trust you. Christian stewardship, mmhmm, gotta love those cathedrals they built with poor starving peasants money.. I apologize to those I may offend with this post and if you really want to join this league, by all means, go ahead, but just know that you were warned ahead of time.

EDIT: Steve or Scott, I really think you guys should check this guy out (if you haven't already) because I'm sure you can see how this could very well turn out really bad for .400's image.

Cole · 05-24-2003, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kq76
EDIT: Steve or Scott, I really think you guys should check this guy out (if you haven't already) because I'm sure you can see how this could very well turn out really bad for .400's image. [/B]

I really don't think this guys league reflects at all on .400 Software Studios.

Goody · 05-24-2003, 01:20 PM

Might have no deadbeat owners, but it sure does encourage cheating.

We always ask about the cheaters..."Why would anyone cheat in a game?"

Well when money is involved, they have a reason.

kq76 · 05-24-2003, 01:26 PM

If this guy does rip people off and .400 doesn't explicitly say, ".400 studios in no way supports any pay leagues, join them at your own risk" (or whatever legal lingo needed), I think it very well could get messy for .400. I think you have to look at in that this guy is using .400's message boards to advertise this league. If it does turn out to be a scam, it _could_ mean trouble for .400. Would most of us blame .400? No, of course not, but I'm sure someone out there would.

Besides, if any pay leagues for OOTP exist in the future, imo they should be run by .400 and how the $ is accounted for should be clearly displayed on that league's website. Why? 2 reasons. 1) Trust - I think most people here could trust .400 studios more than they could most members. 2) Profit off the game - if anyone should make the 400$ profit on the 600$ seasonal fee, it should be those who created the game.

JerseyPride · 05-24-2003, 01:27 PM

I believe the idea of this league, is a great one and could potentially work out for everyone. The league promises to be active and have dedicated owners. If the owners puts money into it, there going to want to try and get a profit out of it. This ensures activity. I do however believe 20$ is too much. 5$ per team would be a reasonable amount, and more people would be able to afford it, thus more people would join. As for some of the raised questions about Dan4Christ running away with the money or joining the league as another name, these problems can easily be fixed.

1.) I suggest that you have an outside respected person gather the managers. If the person is respected by the OOTP World, you know he won’t look to cheat. Also if he isn’t in the league, he would not look for managers, that would better himself. Having an outside person gather the managers eliminates the possibility of cheating owners.

2.) What if Scott or Markus owned the paypal account? Each team donates 5 bucks to the pot for their team. The account is owed by Steve or Markus this way you know they won’t run away with the money. Once the league is over, they release the money to the winner.

Goody · 05-24-2003, 01:31 PM

Why would Steve or Markus want to, in any capacity, participate in this?

treedom · 05-24-2003, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kq76

2) Profit off the game - if anyone should make the 400$ profit on the 600$ seasonal fee, it should be those who created the game.

very good point...the guy is trying to make a $400 profit here...this makes this league sound very shady...

JerseyPride · 05-24-2003, 01:34 PM

They wouldn’t have to participate in it. They just own the PayPal account. This way you know the money won’t be stolen, and you know the winner will actually get the money. Steve/Markus are much respected people, by everyone in the OOTP Community. Having them own the PayPal account would attract managers, because you would know your money would not be stolen.

JerseyPride · 05-24-2003, 01:36 PM

The price per team should be less. As far as a profit for him, a 200$ profit is way too much. Maybe he should make some profit, but no where near that much.

treedom · 05-24-2003, 01:38 PM

jersey...i just don't see why playing ootp for money is so integral and important that the .400 staff would have to get involved...as if they don't already have enough headaches with the whole league web space thing...

JerseyPride · 05-24-2003, 01:42 PM

Treedom, you may have a point. I am not very familiar with PayPal, so I don’t know how much of a headache it could be. I just figured if there was anyway to eliminate the problem of the money being stolen; it would be to get Steve/Markus involved somehow, since their respected guys of the OOTP Community. And you know they wouldn’t try and run away with the cash.

Goody · 05-24-2003, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JerseyPride
They wouldn’t have to participate in it. They just own the PayPal account. This way you know the money won’t be stolen, and you know the winner will actually get the money. Steve/Markus are much respected people, by everyone in the OOTP Community. Having them own the PayPal account would attract managers, because you would know your money would not be stolen.

Yeah, they'd be sure they got their $200 and the commissioner would be sure he'd get his $400.

Sounds like a good investment of .400 software studios time.

{/sarcasm}

Goody · 05-24-2003, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JerseyPride
The price per team should be less. As far as a profit for him, a 200$ profit is way too much. Maybe he should make some profit, but no where near that much.

I don't think he should make a profit. There are plently of commissioners that do it for fun and don't mind paying for a webspace out of their own pocket to practice a hobby.

Heck, there's commissioners now that run 2 or 3 leagues without asking for a cent. Why should one be paid?

TC Dale · 05-24-2003, 02:03 PM

I would think that .400 would not want to be involved with an online pay league. Too many questions would pop up, and I am not a great supporter myself of Paypal.

Why create extra headaches when you don't need to? The proposal that the original thread starter made is a viable one, but, I do not see a full roster of owners when the sliding scale for payment doesn't go to the last place team as well.

Plus I really believe what Cooleyvol said. It has been done and didn't work. I hope that he rethinks his position of starting a new pay league. A new league would be interesting enough, given the right premise.

PurdueBrad · 05-24-2003, 02:10 PM

I personally like and support the idea of a pay league as I've been in several pay leagues in the past for fantasy baseball and football. I do think the money issue needs to be re-visited though so that perhaps the payouts are a little different, such as:

Division winner: $40 (6 divisions=$240 total payout)
Wild Card: $30 (2 wild cards=$60 total payout)
AL/NL Champion: additional $50 (2 champions=$100 total payout)
League Champion: addition $100 (1 champ=$100 total payout)

That leaves $100 for any league expenses that may incur (NOTE: Not for a profit necessarily). With several payouts like that, I know that I would be much more inclined to join such a league because essentially 8 teams out of the 30 will receive $$$ payouts and the World Series winner will still receive up to $190. This makes the league a much more attractive offer for potential owners.

The other issue that needs to be defined much better is the roster setup. I agree with many of the previous posts that an open initial player draft is required (as well as the serpantine method of picking) so that everyone has a "fair" shot at drafting their team.

Personally I think this is an interesting concept and given a dedicated commissioner who has the authority to make unbiased rulings, this could and should definitely be successful. $20 a season isn't an outlandish layout either but the issue you run into is owners who play for one year and then bail. I don't think you can run this like a keeper league. I believe that every season you would have to release all players and again draft because I don't think retention would be incredibly high, especially for the owners who finish in the worst positions.

But hey, thats just my cent and a half.

treedom · 05-24-2003, 02:23 PM

you're right that this type of league couldn't be a keeper league...if the last place guy drops, who are you gonna get to pay $20 for that team next season?

But that leads me to wonder...what's the point in playing ootp without having a keeper league? Half the features of the game would be rendered meaningless. Why care about prospects or the ammy draft? Why make any trades, because most trades involve sacrificing either long term or short term for the other (depending on your goals)...there would be no long term goals though if you start fresh next season. How about free agents? There would never be any. Financials? Again...you'd have to start fresh here too...cause a new guy wouldn't pay $20 for a team in a 2,000,000 hole.

In other words...why bother? Join a free league, and go to the casino or the horse races if you want to throw your money away...err...i mean gamble...

Eckstein 4 Prez · 05-24-2003, 04:11 PM

I think his idea is perfectly acceptable. I for one wouldn't join, but I don't understand why everyone is in such a tizzy about it. Don't join the league if you don't like its policies.

JWay · 05-24-2003, 04:19 PM

I started a league like this and only got 5 paying owners its really tough...

05-24-2003, 11:40 AM	#21
CommishJoe Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 5,238	Interesting idea. $20 might be a bit much (depends on how long each season takes) but it could be up to $80/year (TLB runs about 4 seasons a year). I, for one, wouldn't make that kind of investment. Also, if you could have other prizes, it could keep teams interested. Having the OOTP rookie of league would get you $10, stuff like that. Good luck with this! __________________ Joe Success isn’t owned. It’s leased. And rent is due every day.

05-24-2003, 11:49 AM	#22
NYM Jason Phillips 23 Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 58	I just dont see anyone that would join this, i dont think anyone would TRUST you (im not questioning your integity) but i doubt youll get anyone to join, how will they know that your not going to take all thier money and not start the league- or join as a team on a different name or something and cheat to win it all? like i said, im not AT ALL saying your gunna do this, but it is gunna run threw everyones mind's when they think about joining. __________________ HOCKEY RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Ny Ranger fan)

05-24-2003, 12:18 PM	#23
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 12,037	A few comments.. I really don't think you should use the word "investing". I suspect you're using the word investing as it is much less threatening and risk sounding as gambling is. But what I'm hearing is approximately 30 people putting up 20$ each, that totals 600$ and only one gets 200$ of that 600$? Hmm.. Nice healthy profit for you. And a very _very_ bad "investment" for the 30 people. Why do I say it's bad? Well a 1 chance in 30 to either multiply your money by 10 or end up with nothing (and that's _if_ you don't screw them over!) is not a very good possible or likely return for the risk. "VERY likely" my ass.. And the whole dan4christ thing, as if that's not to get people trust you. Christian stewardship, mmhmm, gotta love those cathedrals they built with poor starving peasants money.. I apologize to those I may offend with this post and if you really want to join this league, by all means, go ahead, but just know that you were warned ahead of time. EDIT: Steve or Scott, I really think you guys should check this guy out (if you haven't already) because I'm sure you can see how this could very well turn out really bad for .400's image. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) For Beta/Devs: Full screen (1920x1080) Last edited by kq76; 05-24-2003 at 12:26 PM.

05-24-2003, 01:20 PM	#25
Goody Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: South Korea Posts: 3,530	Might have no deadbeat owners, but it sure does encourage cheating. We always ask about the cheaters..."Why would anyone cheat in a game?" Well when money is involved, they have a reason. __________________ In the past: Laseron Baseball Association creator. Present: I am Rezulm on PT and OOTP Discord. Future: I wish it was the past.

05-24-2003, 01:26 PM	#26
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 12,037	If this guy does rip people off and .400 doesn't explicitly say, ".400 studios in no way supports any pay leagues, join them at your own risk" (or whatever legal lingo needed), I think it very well could get messy for .400. I think you have to look at in that this guy is using .400's message boards to advertise this league. If it does turn out to be a scam, it _could_ mean trouble for .400. Would most of us blame .400? No, of course not, but I'm sure someone out there would. Besides, if any pay leagues for OOTP exist in the future, imo they should be run by .400 and how the $ is accounted for should be clearly displayed on that league's website. Why? 2 reasons. 1) Trust - I think most people here could trust .400 studios more than they could most members. 2) Profit off the game - if anyone should make the 400$ profit on the 600$ seasonal fee, it should be those who created the game. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) For Beta/Devs: Full screen (1920x1080)

05-24-2003, 01:27 PM	#27
JerseyPride All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dirtay Jerzey Posts: 951	I believe the idea of this league, is a great one and could potentially work out for everyone. The league promises to be active and have dedicated owners. If the owners puts money into it, there going to want to try and get a profit out of it. This ensures activity. I do however believe 20$ is too much. 5$ per team would be a reasonable amount, and more people would be able to afford it, thus more people would join. As for some of the raised questions about Dan4Christ running away with the money or joining the league as another name, these problems can easily be fixed. 1.) I suggest that you have an outside respected person gather the managers. If the person is respected by the OOTP World, you know he won’t look to cheat. Also if he isn’t in the league, he would not look for managers, that would better himself. Having an outside person gather the managers eliminates the possibility of cheating owners. 2.) What if Scott or Markus owned the paypal account? Each team donates 5 bucks to the pot for their team. The account is owed by Steve or Markus this way you know they won’t run away with the money. Once the league is over, they release the money to the winner. __________________ "I guess you could call the Yanks my daddys." -Pedro Martinez

05-24-2003, 01:31 PM	#28
Goody Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: South Korea Posts: 3,530	Why would Steve or Markus want to, in any capacity, participate in this? __________________ In the past: Laseron Baseball Association creator. Present: I am Rezulm on PT and OOTP Discord. Future: I wish it was the past.

05-24-2003, 01:34 PM	#30
JerseyPride All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dirtay Jerzey Posts: 951	They wouldn’t have to participate in it. They just own the PayPal account. This way you know the money won’t be stolen, and you know the winner will actually get the money. Steve/Markus are much respected people, by everyone in the OOTP Community. Having them own the PayPal account would attract managers, because you would know your money would not be stolen. __________________ "I guess you could call the Yanks my daddys." -Pedro Martinez

05-24-2003, 01:36 PM	#31
JerseyPride All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dirtay Jerzey Posts: 951	The price per team should be less. As far as a profit for him, a 200$ profit is way too much. Maybe he should make some profit, but no where near that much. __________________ "I guess you could call the Yanks my daddys." -Pedro Martinez

05-24-2003, 01:38 PM	#32
treedom Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Transylvania Posts: 2,900	jersey...i just don't see why playing ootp for money is so integral and important that the .400 staff would have to get involved...as if they don't already have enough headaches with the whole league web space thing... __________________ A rake and a roustabout.

05-24-2003, 01:42 PM	#33
JerseyPride All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dirtay Jerzey Posts: 951	Treedom, you may have a point. I am not very familiar with PayPal, so I don’t know how much of a headache it could be. I just figured if there was anyway to eliminate the problem of the money being stolen; it would be to get Steve/Markus involved somehow, since their respected guys of the OOTP Community. And you know they wouldn’t try and run away with the cash. __________________ "I guess you could call the Yanks my daddys." -Pedro Martinez

05-24-2003, 02:03 PM	#36
TC Dale Global Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,983	I would think that .400 would not want to be involved with an online pay league. Too many questions would pop up, and I am not a great supporter myself of Paypal. Why create extra headaches when you don't need to? The proposal that the original thread starter made is a viable one, but, I do not see a full roster of owners when the sliding scale for payment doesn't go to the last place team as well. Plus I really believe what Cooleyvol said. It has been done and didn't work. I hope that he rethinks his position of starting a new pay league. A new league would be interesting enough, given the right premise. __________________ ----------------------------------

05-24-2003, 02:10 PM	#37
PurdueBrad All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 871	I personally like and support the idea of a pay league as I've been in several pay leagues in the past for fantasy baseball and football. I do think the money issue needs to be re-visited though so that perhaps the payouts are a little different, such as: Division winner: $40 (6 divisions=$240 total payout) Wild Card: $30 (2 wild cards=$60 total payout) AL/NL Champion: additional $50 (2 champions=$100 total payout) League Champion: addition $100 (1 champ=$100 total payout) That leaves $100 for any league expenses that may incur (NOTE: Not for a profit necessarily). With several payouts like that, I know that I would be much more inclined to join such a league because essentially 8 teams out of the 30 will receive $$$ payouts and the World Series winner will still receive up to $190. This makes the league a much more attractive offer for potential owners. The other issue that needs to be defined much better is the roster setup. I agree with many of the previous posts that an open initial player draft is required (as well as the serpantine method of picking) so that everyone has a "fair" shot at drafting their team. Personally I think this is an interesting concept and given a dedicated commissioner who has the authority to make unbiased rulings, this could and should definitely be successful. $20 a season isn't an outlandish layout either but the issue you run into is owners who play for one year and then bail. I don't think you can run this like a keeper league. I believe that every season you would have to release all players and again draft because I don't think retention would be incredibly high, especially for the owners who finish in the worst positions. But hey, thats just my cent and a half. __________________

05-24-2003, 02:23 PM	#38
treedom Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Transylvania Posts: 2,900	you're right that this type of league couldn't be a keeper league...if the last place guy drops, who are you gonna get to pay $20 for that team next season? But that leads me to wonder...what's the point in playing ootp without having a keeper league? Half the features of the game would be rendered meaningless. Why care about prospects or the ammy draft? Why make any trades, because most trades involve sacrificing either long term or short term for the other (depending on your goals)...there would be no long term goals though if you start fresh next season. How about free agents? There would never be any. Financials? Again...you'd have to start fresh here too...cause a new guy wouldn't pay $20 for a team in a 2,000,000 hole. In other words...why bother? Join a free league, and go to the casino or the horse races if you want to throw your money away...err...i mean gamble... __________________ A rake and a roustabout.

05-24-2003, 04:11 PM	#39
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,358	I think his idea is perfectly acceptable. I for one wouldn't join, but I don't understand why everyone is in such a tizzy about it. Don't join the league if you don't like its policies. __________________ Looking for an insomnia cure? Check out my dynasty thread, The Dawn of American Professional Base Ball, 1871.

05-24-2003, 04:19 PM	#40
JWay Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Posts: 5,031	I started a league like this and only got 5 paying owners its really tough...