No good pitchers in Draft

[locuspc]

I believe this is a serious bug in pitcher generation causing them to be generated with ~half the stuff they should be generated with. This should be treated as a showstopping bug and I would not recommend continuing any long term saves.

[locuspc]

See bug report forum https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=337637

[andyhdz]

Originally Posted by locuspc

See bug report forum https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=337637

Very nice report. Very refreshing to see besides the usual "it doesn't work" bug reports

[Lukas Berger]

The low stuff ratings we're taking a look at what's going on there right now, and we'll have a fix for it in the next patch.

[sprague]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

The low stuff ratings we're taking a look at what's going on there right now, and we'll have a fix for it in the next patch.

Thanks Lukas for letting us know the devs are looking into this.
Like the post above, I have stopped playing any games in 23 except recalc historical until this gets sorted out.


As an aside, I have also noticed that the generated home run values for batters are also a bit low as to what would be expected. Not as low as pitcher Stuff, but low nonetheless. Mentioning it


Cheers

[uruguru]

Originally Posted by sprague

It is a Stuff problem. I have presented this to the developers but so far nothing has changed in the game.

Keep in mind that Stuff is one potential rating that naturally increases as a young player matures since it incorporates pitch velocity.

[Francoeurstein]

Originally Posted by coopsssi

So I ran the league into 2028 and filtered all players under 25 who have a potential rating of stuff greater then 50. This includes relievers. If its just starters it breaks down to 11. This is with scout that I made legendary with neutral bias at normal scouting.

Attachment 872763

If I then enable 100% accuracy, there are 385 players players with the same criteria.

Attachment 872764

Movement and control dont seem affected, but scouts do not seem to be able to show stuff correctly.

The top prospects up to 63 (first page essentially) looks like this with scouts,

Attachment 872765

and with 100% accuracy it looks like this

Attachment 872766

Obviously this affects draft but it affects trades as well.

It might be controversial to point this out, but I noticed a shift in the demographics for draftees this year. The majority of fictional draftees are Hispanic guys that are from the US. I don't have a problem with it, I just found it interesting because it is a major change from previous versions and it doesn't reflect the demographics of the US. I wonder if this is intentional?

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Francoeurstein

It might be controversial to point this out, but I noticed a shift in the demographics for draftees this year. The majority of fictional draftees are Hispanic guys that are from the US. I don't have a problem with it, I just found it interesting because it is a major change from previous versions and it doesn't reflect the demographics of the US. I wonder if this is intentional?

Not necessarily intentional, but in the switch to using the names.xml files it may be that some of the name distributions have either changed or may not always be correctly applied. We'll take a look and see if this is right or needs some tweaking.

[locuspc]

Originally Posted by Francoeurstein

It might be controversial to point this out, but I noticed a shift in the demographics for draftees this year. The majority of fictional draftees are Hispanic guys that are from the US. I don't have a problem with it, I just found it interesting because it is a major change from previous versions and it doesn't reflect the demographics of the US. I wonder if this is intentional?

I don't think it's controversial yet to point out that whites exist. This seems like a bug with the world database indexing, I've made a bug report https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/....php?p=4899114

[andyhdz]

Originally Posted by locuspc

I don't think it's controversial yet to point out that whites exist. This seems like a bug with the world database indexing, I've made a bug report https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/....php?p=4899114

It's even happening to imported saves from 22 I just compared my list and yep US modern is gone so not just new saves.

[Tiger Fan]

I had it happen with my current league but thought I just messed up. When I reset the ethnicity 0 back to 2500 or so it stuck just fine. Did not have it happen in several other leagues I ran so maybe just an occasional random problem which unfortunately likely makes the bug harder to track and squash.

[andyhdz]

Originally Posted by Tiger Fan

I had it happen with my current league but thought I just messed up. When I reset the ethnicity 0 back to 2500 or so it stuck just fine. Did not have it happen in several other leagues I ran so maybe just an occasional random problem which unfortunately likely makes the bug harder to track and squash.

apparently the problem comes back so check back once in a while until it's fixed.

[Ile]

Downloaded the patch as beta on Steam a few days ago, and still have the exact same issue even though the patch notes stated it would be fixed. No good created pitchers to be found, all have them have extremely low stuff compared to "real" SPs. Almost every pitcher have a potental ranging between 35-50 Stuff. I'm in 2027 and the best SP prospect is a 3,5 star potential 50/60/55. And I know they can develop their pitches over time etc., but this years OOTP is different. Not in a single draft so far, nor international amateur FA, has there been any SP with above 3* potential.

The 2027 draft has 4 starting pitchers with 3* potential (both by OSA and my scout), their Stuff potential is 45, 50, 45 and 50 with the 20-80 system. All of them are college players. The highest rated HS SPs have 2,5* with 35 and 40 stuff potential.

Edit: actually i'm probably still in an era where the players aren't completely randomly generated? i'll try to power through a few more years and see if anything is different. maybe the problem now is just the created players for the first few drafts or something.

[credezcrew24]

Originally Posted by Ile

Downloaded the patch as beta on Steam a few days ago, and still have the exact same issue even though the patch notes stated it would be fixed. No good created pitchers to be found, all have them have extremely low stuff compared to "real" SPs. Almost every pitcher have a potental ranging between 35-50 Stuff. I'm in 2027 and the best SP prospect is a 3,5 star potential 50/60/55. And I know they can develop their pitches over time etc., but this years OOTP is different. Not in a single draft so far, nor international amateur FA, has there been any SP with above 3* potential.

The 2027 draft has 4 starting pitchers with 3* potential (both by OSA and my scout), their Stuff potential is 45, 50, 45 and 50 with the 20-80 system. All of them are college players. The highest rated HS SPs have 2,5* with 35 and 40 stuff potential.

Edit: actually i'm probably still in an era where the players aren't completely randomly generated? i'll try to power through a few more years and see if anything is different. maybe the problem now is just the created players for the first few drafts or something.

It hasn't been fixed. I just started a new 2022 game and the draft pool was released 90 days prior to the draft. Once it was, I deleted all players in the 2022 pool and future pools. Then I set the draft pool to be released 80 days prior to the draft which generated fictional players and all the pitchers are still terrible. Even on draft day.

[highandoutside]

Is this an issue with Quickstart leagues are all of them? I'm waiting to bring my long time fictional league over to '23 and won't do it until we get the all clear on this issue.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Ile

Downloaded the patch as beta on Steam a few days ago, and still have the exact same issue even though the patch notes stated it would be fixed. No good created pitchers to be found, all have them have extremely low stuff compared to "real" SPs. Almost every pitcher have a potental ranging between 35-50 Stuff. I'm in 2027 and the best SP prospect is a 3,5 star potential 50/60/55. And I know they can develop their pitches over time etc., but this years OOTP is different. Not in a single draft so far, nor international amateur FA, has there been any SP with above 3* potential.

The 2027 draft has 4 starting pitchers with 3* potential (both by OSA and my scout), their Stuff potential is 45, 50, 45 and 50 with the 20-80 system. All of them are college players. The highest rated HS SPs have 2,5* with 35 and 40 stuff potential.

Edit: actually i'm probably still in an era where the players aren't completely randomly generated? i'll try to power through a few more years and see if anything is different. maybe the problem now is just the created players for the first few drafts or something.

The bug that was causing the abnormally low stuff is definitely fixed.

If you're in an old save though, it will likely take a few years of the game generating new pitchers before you start to see the difference. And yeah, as you say you might still be seeing some holdover generated players at that point.

Originally Posted by credezcrew24

It hasn't been fixed. I just started a new 2022 game and the draft pool was released 90 days prior to the draft. Once it was, I deleted all players in the 2022 pool and future pools. Then I set the draft pool to be released 80 days prior to the draft which generated fictional players and all the pitchers are still terrible. Even on draft day.

What's happening here is that when you delete the initial draft pool, then game fills in the blank pool with some 'hidden' real players the next time it regenerates. But those hidden players are mostly lower quality.

So what you'd actually need to do here, is to delete the pool a second time after it regenerates. Then move the draft pool event date at least a day ahead and then sim to it. Then the game will fill the pool with generated players, and they'll have normal stuff ratings.

So basically, anytime in the first couple seasons you want to fill the pool with fictional players, you need to delete the draft pool twice, to get rid of all the real players.

[andyhdz]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

The bug that was causing the abnormally low stuff is definitely fixed.

If you're in an old save though, it will likely take a few years of the game generating new pitchers before you start to see the difference. And yeah, as you say you might still be seeing some holdover generated players at that point.



What's happening here is that when you delete the initial draft pool, then game fills in the blank pool with some 'hidden' real players the next time it regenerates. But those hidden players are mostly lower quality.

So what you'd actually need to do here, is to delete the pool a second time after it regenerates. Then move the draft pool event date at least a day ahead and then sim to it. Then the game will fill the pool with generated players, and they'll have normal stuff ratings.

So basically, anytime in the first couple seasons you want to fill the pool with fictional players, you need to delete the draft pool twice, to get rid of all the real players.

it's definitely fixed. I didn't realize I didn't have 100% accurate scouting on and I when switched my draft pool had several high tier pitchers.

[Cluboris]

Originally Posted by credezcrew24

It hasn't been fixed. I just started a new 2022 game and the draft pool was released 90 days prior to the draft. Once it was, I deleted all players in the 2022 pool and future pools. Then I set the draft pool to be released 80 days prior to the draft which generated fictional players and all the pitchers are still terrible. Even on draft day.

It appears it's more of a scouting issue. Scouting is showing stuff rating as unusually low, resulting in almost all pitching prospects to be max 3 1/2 star guys. Most aren't even that good, according to your scout.

When you crank scouting to 100 percent accuracy, you can see that the prospect is actually going to be great. You can verify that in the editor.

This doesn't appear to be happening to hitting prospects. Normal scouting accuracy is more reflective of what those guys may turn out to be.

Of course this is only one example, but in my testing this appears to be happening across the board. It makes it much harder to determine which pitcher is going to develop and which one isn't. I see it especially when international amateurs are announced. I have yet to see any 3-5 star pitching prospects on July 1, but there are a ton of 5 star hitters.

You can test it further by creating some fictional players. I deleted all free agents, then added 10 RF and 10 SP. All legend talent, 18-21 yrs old, 50 percent development. As you can see, the batters show up as legit 5 star prospects. The pitchers do not.

Of course, I'm comparing things to what it was like for me in previous versions. If something changed in the way stuff is reflected in scouting in OOTP 23, that would account for it. It might be that pitchers are just harder to scout so this is by design.

[Ile]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

The bug that was causing the abnormally low stuff is definitely fixed.

If you're in an old save though, it will likely take a few years of the game generating new pitchers before you start to see the difference. And yeah, as you say you might still be seeing some holdover generated players at that point.

Not an old save, I started a new one specifically because this fix was in the latest version as I considered this issue too big to be able to play with. I activated the beta thing on Steam to get it early, because I wanna play. Maybe the stuff thing is fixed, but in that case there is a new issue as Cluboris is saying instead.

I'm in 2028, and high stuff pitchers are slowly going extinct. All but 1 SP with 50+ Stuff in the league are real players, there might be 1 that is created but I'm not sure. The highest rated SP prospect by OSA at #7 has potential rating 50/50/50. The highest Stuff Potential on the entire Pitcher Prospect List has 60, he's the only one with potential stuff above 55. Most are ranging between 40-50.

Here's 4 print screens that show:

1. The 2028 top SP prospects sorted by Stuff Potential where Age < 23 rated by OSA. My Legendary/Outstanding Minors/Amateurs Scout with 24M$ is not much more impressed by them.


2. The same, but for current stuff.


3. Same as 2, but where Age < 26 instead. It appears as though "real prospects" work better, but not created?


4. All SPs where Age < 23 by potential


Not sure why the 5* guy is rated as a 5* SP guy. Most likely because he's a massive batting prospect? Because his pitching potential is really low. My scout has him at 35/50/40, and still gives him 3*. Idk, it all feels really weird to me.

Or maybe it is as Cluboris says. I'm comparing this year's game to all the previous ones I've played, and pitching prospects are very different this year. Maybe it's by design?

[Ile]

Just used part of my lunch break to start a new game without challenge mode. I quickly simmed 10 seasons to see what would happen.

It is definitely as Cluboris says; the stuff thing may be fixed, but the scouts need to be notified about it

In 2031, according to OSA, the highest stuff potential of all Starting Pitchers below the age of 23 is 60 and those are quite rare (5). There's a few with 55 and the rest are 50 and below. Everything basically looks the same as before the patch.

But, when turning on 100% Scout Accuracy, it looks much better. Several SP prospects with 80, and almost the entire list has 60 stuff potential or above.


For me personally, this makes the game unplayable still, and I'll wait another patch (again). Playing with 100% scouting accuracy is a no for me.


Edit: Just to further underline the issue; With 100% accuracy, the Player List shows 138 Starting Pitchers at Age < 23 with at least 3 star potential. When turning Scouting Accuracy back to Normal, that list goes down from 138 to 7. The only 2 5 star potential pitchers then, are actually massive batting prospects which is (I assume) why they're graded as 5*. No actual pitching prospect is graded as a 5* and the 2 that are there now shouldn't even be graded as 3* (pitching) prospects.

Edit2: Lunch break over, managed to sim another 5 seasons for a total of 15 seasons. The list of Age < 23 Starting Pitchers with at least 3* potential is now 135 with 100% accuracy, and 7 with Normal Accuracy with 1 of them being a batting prospect that will never be an SP. Highest actual Starting Pitcher prospect at this point is a 3,5* guy with 60/50/75 potentials. The remaining 5 SPs on the list are all 3* prospect, with only one of them having Stuff Potential above 50 (55).

However, it is obvious that the original Stuff issue is fixed. These players get graded correctly once they develop. Out of all current top 10 Starting Pitchers in 2037, none were graded higher than a potential 2,5* SP when created. And only one of them actually got 2,5* back then. Rest of them all started out scouted as 0,5-2* prospects and then got correctly graded as they reached ~AAA. I get that there will be some of those sensational careers where no scout saw it coming, but it can't be right that all of them have the same story.