OOTP23 & MLB Lockout

[Braden]

Originally Posted by RchW

So if there is no MLB, then OOTP will reflect the rules and environment of the last played season.

That would make sense. Get those rules, environment, season accuracy & game play updated and fixed. If/when the season re-starts, then all they have to do is update teams/roster/schedules, etc.

[markprior22]

Would OOTP's licensing agreement with MLB come into play at all? Seems like owners are being very petty even with what content MLB.com can carry. If the season doesn't start on time and bargaining is still contentious, could MLB have a say in whether or when the game is released? Hope that scenario doesn't come to pass.

[Dave Stieb II]

Originally Posted by markprior22

Would OOTP's licensing agreement with MLB come into play at all? Seems like owners are being very petty even with what content MLB.com can carry. If the season doesn't start on time and bargaining is still contentious, could MLB have a say in whether or when the game is released? Hope that scenario doesn't come to pass.

Geez, now that's a scary thought. I'd like to think not but your point about MLB's pettiness cannot be ignored.
Which has led me to wonder which genuises inside MLB headquarters made the decision to remove any reference to current players from their website. Can't see that brilliant move having anything but a negative impact on fans, as it did with me.
Just really, really bad optics on a number of levels IMO.
They've taken their ball, turned out the lights and left the room, leaving the fans entirely in the dark, with nothing but a sour taste and really bad smell left behind.
Brilliance personified. I guess that's the end of baseball as we know it. There is no hope of reconciliation. We'll have to rely on nostalgia for our baseball fix. Is that what they're telling us?
They never learn. More self-inflicted negativity.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Braden

It would seem to me that this would be a good time to focus on game play, e.g. the historical exhibition, make it work better, correcting all the cosmetic issues with ballparks, e.g. balls and players going through OOTP ballpark walls and historical accuracy, e.g. ability to select helmet usage, historic logo, uniforms and caps accuracy, historic player photos and insuring that OOTP park are properly tested before publication and other stuff like all that.

You must be new here

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Dave Stieb II

Geez, now that's a scary thought. I'd like to think not but your point about MLB's pettiness cannot be ignored.
Which has led me to wonder which genuises inside MLB headquarters made the decision to remove any reference to current players from their website. Can't see that brilliant move having anything but a negative impact on fans, as it did with me.
Just really, really bad optics on a number of levels IMO.
They've taken their ball, turned out the lights and left the room, leaving the fans entirely in the dark, with nothing but a sour taste and really bad smell left behind.
Brilliance personified. I guess that's the end of baseball as we know it. There is no hope of reconciliation. We'll have to rely on nostalgia for our baseball fix. Is that what they're telling us?
They never learn. More self-inflicted negativity.

I don't know the specific legality behind it, but it wasn't a decision made by anyone. During a lockout, MLB cannot use the players' likeness in any product that MLB puts out there. That includes MLB.com. It has something to do with the contract/agreements between MLB and the MLBPA.

It should not affect OOTP in any way because OOTP is licensed by both MLB and MLB Players, Inc.

[Dave Stieb II]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I don't know the specific legality behind it, but it wasn't a decision made by anyone. During a lockout, MLB cannot use the players' likeness in any product that MLB puts out there. That includes MLB.com. It has something to do with the contract/agreements between MLB and the MLBPA.

It should not affect OOTP in any way because OOTP is licensed by both MLB and MLB Players, Inc.

Well they've taken it far beyond using likenesses or writing articles about current players. They've even cleared the rosters pages. And since players who were listed on those pages are still under contract to their organizations, I'm not quite sure how that would infringe upon their rights.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Dave Stieb II

Well they've taken it far beyond using likenesses or writing articles about current players. They've even cleared the rosters pages. And since players who were listed on those pages are still under contract to their organizations, I'm not quite sure how that would infringe upon their rights.

I wasn't aware of that as I don't often visit MLB.com. Again, I don't know the legal specifics behind it, but it likely has something to do with MLB profiting off page views on player bio pages. Are there ads on those pages normally?

[Syd Thrift]

I think there was a big, big aspect of MLB freaking out / doing little things to stick it to the players during the strike. The players' union website has lots and lots of video, images, and so on of MLB logos and uniforms (they're being worn by the players of course). I highly doubt that there's any real asymmetry in the licensing there.

[Pelican]

Remember, it’s a lockout by the oligarchs (I mean the owners) and not a players’ (none of whom are struggling workers, except in the minor leagues) strike. Not taking sides; but the owners struck first. They seem to think that gives them the high moral ground and some tactical advantage and control over the coming season. I don’t see it; but I’m an environmental lawyer; not a labor lawyer. Mostly I’m a fan who just wants this to be over by early March, when I will be in Florida and could see my beloved Phillies in Spring Training, ideally with a new LF and CF and SS and 2B and bullpen, too. The only sure thing is that the interests of the fans will not be considered for one stinking minute of the negotiations - if they ever negotiate.

[Braden]

It would seem to me that someone from the OOTP staff should make a comment regarding what their plan is regarding this situation. It doesn't have to be anything definite, but something about what they think are what their options might be regarding the situation for previous and/or the 2022 season(s). Lack of comment indicates a lack of plan.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Braden

It would seem to me that someone from the OOTP staff should make a comment regarding what their plan is regarding this situation. It doesn't have to be anything definite, but something about what they think are what their options might be regarding the situation for previous and/or the 2022 season(s). Lack of comment indicates a lack of plan.

Relax. There will be a typical release with all of the information available at that time. If the lockout hasn't ended, we'll get a patch with any updated CBA rules, updated rosters, etc.

[Dave Stieb II]

Originally Posted by Braden

It would seem to me that someone from the OOTP staff should make a comment regarding what their plan is regarding this situation. It doesn't have to be anything definite, but something about what they think are what their options might be regarding the situation for previous and/or the 2022 season(s). Lack of comment indicates a lack of plan.

Or maybe there ARE issues regarding licencing if the lockout persists.
Who knows?
But the four things I feel reasonably assured about are:
1) OOTP is on top of the situation and has a plan(s) as things move forward even if they are 'hostage' to the situation right now. Or, should I say IF things ever start moving forward....
2) The programmers are busy working away at upgrades and tweaks as they are every year at this time.
3) When OOTP is eventually released, the rules and rosters will be as up to date as possible at that time.
4) Patches will follow with the new CBA rules (as much as they can implement) and updated rosters (as they always do).

In summary, I'm sure OOTP 'has a plan' insofar as they can have one.
If I was going to sweat anyone not 'having a plan' and not communicating with its public, I would focus my attention on the billionaires and mega millionaires moreso than the game manufacturers. They are the ones who control the situation.

[Bobbyraz49]

I'd bet OOTPBB23 would lose some income IF this isn't settled prior to exhibition games at their usual starting times.
Any rumors as to what each side wants ? Perhaps FA at an earlier age ?

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Bobbyraz49

I'd bet OOTPBB23 would lose some income IF this isn't settled prior to exhibition games at their usual starting times.
Any rumors as to what each side wants ? Perhaps FA at an earlier age ?

To the first point, I think in the short term what COVID indicated was that if anything OOTP has a (small, short term) benefit from the season not starting on time. All the baseball nerds want to get their fix absent real baseball and then if BBRef does the same thing they did in 2020 - simulate the season day-to-day through OOTP - then that's a ton of free advertising that's sure to bring in even more baseball nerds.

If it's as small as earlier free agency, OOTP can implement that just by changing some existing settings. I *suspect* that we might see stuff like allowing for more sweeping changes in the lower minors (which I guess now is just low and high A ball?) like testing moving the mound back or using larger/squishier baseballs (that is, that are easier to hit but don't carry as far), neither of which the game has a good way to implement anyway until we see what the results look like. Otherwise, the biggest implementable change that's happened in recent years was the putting the ghost runner on at second base in extra innings thing, which had some interesting complications (how do you score that run? Is it earned? If the first pitcher comes out before he scores, does it still count against him?), but at the end of the day was a pretty straightforward business rule that they could implement on top of existing code.

I haven't really seen what else they're debating... I mean, so far the owners haven't even tried to talk to the union since locking the players out, so right now I don't think they're talking about anything other than the standard "we're all losing money! Trust us! No, you can't look at our books the way the other major American sports leagues do with their union!" thing they always do when work stoppages happen. I would stop and wait for proposals to actually be made before worrying whether or not OOTP can mirror them.

[Dave Stieb II]

Originally Posted by Bobbyraz49

I'd bet OOTPBB23 would lose some income IF this isn't settled prior to exhibition games at their usual starting times.
Any rumors as to what each side wants ? Perhaps FA at an earlier age ?

I haven't really read too much about the 'issues' since late November since, well, nothing seems to be happening.
But as I recall, the players wanted a reduction in arbitration eligibility from three years to two years and in free agency eligibility from six years to five. They also wanted a substantial increase in the salary tax threshold or have it done away with completely.
To the surprise of no one, I'm sure, the first two were 'non starters' for the owners and they wanted the salary tax threshold reduced (and I'd love to hear their supporting logic for that) but were willing to generously consider a salary 'floor' (of about $100 million I believe). You know.... to prod all those teams that have gone into 'scorched earth' rebuild mode (Baltimore Orioles, PIttsburgh Pirates, etc.) and annually have payrolls of around $50 million....while pocketing generous amounts of revenue sharing. Or building new Dominican complexes as Baltimore did, etc.
But there was much more to it than that, including issues such as FA compensation (or should it be done away with altogether), the arbitration system (the owners suggested doing away with it and awarding salaries in these cases stricly on WAR - seriously).
I'm missing a lot of things but, to summarize, the gulf between them was so vast that I hold little hope of a settlement anytime soon. Of course, I guess you actually have to meet, discuss and negotiate in order for their to be progress.
Frankly, I found the proposals from both sides extreme, absurd and well beyond reasonable. The players trying to make up for being asleep for 25+ years all in one swoop.....and the owners who've taken advantage of every loophole in the system for those 25+ years throwing dried out bones on the table.
We are going to need OOTP!!!!

[mytreds]

Omg! What will I do if I can’t play the latest roster update to a simulator that has multiple versions before this year? Oh nooooooooo

[fredbeene]

gives thems extra time to add sortable stats

[Bobbyraz49]

I miss the "Like" button.
So many great statements here.

[andyhdz]

The historical replayers and fictional league players like me are like, "who cares about the lockout, when is '23 coming out?"

[andyhdz]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Great time to work on a much better spring training model…grapefruit and cactus leagues, ballparks, schedule, etc

this seems like low hanging fruit too. An easy win. Hell even a simple team spring training dashboard page where you can track your players and make quick changes would be a huge win.