How to bring BABIP down

[Syd Thrift]

I think what I would probably do is switch out that only slightly worse than average CF in in place of the horrible guy you're starting, and at shortstop... probably I would trade for someone TBH as neither guy looks that great for you. Adames at least will not blow up your starters' ERAs - it will be very clear to everyone that it's him who is the hole in the defense with all those errors - but both those guys are really, really bad. In CF, yeah, Frelick seems like he's at least passable but Josh Lowe is all kinds of terrible. I'm not sure exactly what the translation between ZR and wins is but those guys combined have probably cost you 2 or 3 games already this year.

You could *try* putting Lowe or Rodgers at easier defensive positions - chances are they wouldn't be complete suckholes and then on top of that the corner OF positions aren't nearly as impacting on BABIP as SS and CF, and while 2B can be, you can also get by with a 2B with a poor arm (unfortunately that doesn't describe Adames, who looks like he has decent range but bad hands - IME sometimes those guys *can* play passably at 2nd if it's more of a case where they have iffy hands and a not-great arm, but that guy's got a decent arm, he just boots the ball too much). So if you want to get those bats into the lineup, that would be how.

[LittleHurt81]

I was going to swap Lowe with Frelick and then the 2nd game I moved them around Frelick got hurt

This season is totally stupid. Look at my closer...

[LittleHurt81]

I'm being punked, right???

[TripLykely]

How are your catchers defensively?

[ezpkns34]

Able to tell what your "Pitching and Defense Stats & Rankings" were last year? If they were better, how much better? If they were better, what changes did you make this season?

[LittleHurt81]

2 catchers, one I just called up:

Pos Rating/C Ability/C Arm
Nunez (B:L) 50/50/55
Moreno (B: R) 55/60/50

[LittleHurt81]

Originally Posted by ezpkns34

Able to tell what your "Pitching and Defense Stats & Rankings" were last year? If they were better, how much better? If they were better, what changes did you make this season?

We have been dead last for 3 seasons, but this one has been the worst overall. Our pitching was slightly better last year than year one.

[TripLykely]

Originally Posted by LittleHurt81

2 catchers, one I just called up:

Pos Rating/C Ability/C Arm
Nunez (B:L) 50/50/55
Moreno (B: R) 55/60/50

Catchers impact every pitcher and given you're in Coors I'd say their value is even higher to you. Those guys don't cut the mustard, I would definitely forgo a bat entirely at the position if necessary to secure top tier defensive ability.

[LittleHurt81]

Good advice. Will definitely invest. Thanks!

[brotherblues]

Originally Posted by LittleHurt81

2 catchers, one I just called up:

Pos Rating/C Ability/C Arm
Nunez (B:L) 50/50/55
Moreno (B: R) 55/60/50

First order of business is dump these guys. Find someone with a blue number in Catcher
Ability.

[LittleHurt81]

Originally Posted by brotherblues

First order of business is dump these guys. Find someone with a blue number in Catcher
Ability.

I'm keeping Moreno. He's got a decent hit tool and only 23. I did just sign Tucker Barnhardt to a MiL deal and will try to trade Nunez to free up that roster spot.

[Syd Thrift]

Catcher ability is super, super important in OOTP so if you decide to keep that guy behind the plate, probably accept relatively poor performance by your pitchers. Does his bat translate to first base or, on the off chance that he's rated for the outfield, there? There are a decent number of players who converted off of catcher - Dale Murphy immediately comes to mind, Craig Biggio as well (although I think with Biggio it was more that the Astros didn't want him to lose his speed due to the rigors of catching) - so it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Also, LF in particular in the game is a decent-ish place you can hide a guy with poor range (probably to a greater extent than you can do the same in real-life Coors, in fact).

Also, just to be clear, I had made a point earlier that your original choices had cost your team 2-3 wins. I just wanted to clarify here that I didn't mean "there were probably 2 or 3 cases where one of those guys dropped a fly or misplayed a ball into a base hit that cost your team a game", I mean that those guys combined, just based on ZR, were likely worth -20 runs or less in the field compared to a league average fielder, just in the first third of the season (IIRC a +20 CF or SS can be worth 6 or more wins with their glove alone so, you know, do the math). That's massive, like the difference between starting a replacement level player fresh up from the minors and an MVP candidate. It's a little bit hidden in the game but again, probably much moreso than real life baseball, fielding can be a huge, huge deal in the game.

[LittleHurt81]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Catcher ability is super, super important in OOTP so if you decide to keep that guy behind the plate, probably accept relatively poor performance by your pitchers. Does his bat translate to first base or, on the off chance that he's rated for the outfield, there? There are a decent number of players who converted off of catcher - Dale Murphy immediately comes to mind, Craig Biggio as well (although I think with Biggio it was more that the Astros didn't want him to lose his speed due to the rigors of catching) - so it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Also, LF in particular in the game is a decent-ish place you can hide a guy with poor range (probably to a greater extent than you can do the same in real-life Coors, in fact).

Also, just to be clear, I had made a point earlier that your original choices had cost your team 2-3 wins. I just wanted to clarify here that I didn't mean "there were probably 2 or 3 cases where one of those guys dropped a fly or misplayed a ball into a base hit that cost your team a game", I mean that those guys combined, just based on ZR, were likely worth -20 runs or less in the field compared to a league average fielder, just in the first third of the season (IIRC a +20 CF or SS can be worth 6 or more wins with their glove alone so, you know, do the math). That's massive, like the difference between starting a replacement level player fresh up from the minors and an MVP candidate. It's a little bit hidden in the game but again, probably much moreso than real life baseball, fielding can be a huge, huge deal in the game.

Your comments make sense relative to my pitchers' performance over the past 3 seasons for sure. My new closer is Edwin Diaz and he has been abysmal and the only factor I can figure is the C ability of my players. Barnhardt was on my squad last year - along with Zunino for part of the year - and we were a much better picthing team (still near the bottom of the league, see defense)

It is a bit frustrating that defense is weighed so heavily when some of my guys have above average defensive tools at those key positions and good hit tools. Wish it was more balanced/realistic.

[Dave Stieb II]

Originally Posted by LittleHurt81

Your comments make sense relative to my pitchers' performance over the past 3 seasons for sure. My new closer is Edwin Diaz and he has been abysmal and the only factor I can figure is the C ability of my players. Barnhardt was on my squad last year - along with Zunino for part of the year - and we were a much better picthing team (still near the bottom of the league, see defense)

It is a bit frustrating that defense is weighed so heavily when some of my guys have above average defensive tools at those key positions and good hit tools. Wish it was more balanced/realistic.

Yes, it makes sense that a combo of Zunino and Barnhardt behind the plate would result in better pitching results than the guys you are using this year, given how ootp heavily favors defence and especially catchers.
And I would guess Zunino probably hit some homers for you but tanked in the BA department.
I try a lot of different standard start ups with a lot of different teams in each version. It's just something I like to do - assessing the rosters and finances, making what *should be* upgrades and building a plan for moving forward.
Then I get bored about 40 games into the first season and it's on to the next team. LOL
I only mention that because I got to tell you, Colorado has always been frustrating for me. The combination of real life factors to weigh and balance is difficult enough but ootp seems to go to an extreme, even when you think you've acquired the appropriate talent.
My advice:
If you're a true blue Rockies fan, hang in there, best of luck trying to figure out the best recipe/combination and hopefully things will come together for you moving forward.
If you're not a diehard Rockies fan......get out as fast as you can and start a new save with a team in a normal environment.

[brotherblues]

This is all making me want to do a Rockies franchise.

[Dave Stieb II]

Originally Posted by brotherblues

This is all making me want to do a Rockies franchise.

Well then, go for it!
And good luck.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by Dave Stieb II

Colorado has always been frustrating for me. The combination of real life factors to weigh and balance is difficult enough but ootp seems to go to an extreme, even when you think you've acquired the appropriate talent.

For defense, especially at Coors Field, I would focus on the "range" rating above all else. My centerfielder would have a minimum of 70 range, even if he was just a marginal hitter. A lot of people get too focused on the overall defensive rating (which is important), but "range" is more important than "error". I'd much rather have a guy with super range and average error than the other way around. Why? Because the average "error" guy might make a few more errors, but he's going to get to a ton of more balls that would be base hits for the guy with average range. So "range" is extremely important at CF and RF. Not so much at LF, but I would still want to have a guy with decent range there if possible.

[Dave Stieb II]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

For defense, especially at Coors Field, I would focus on the "range" rating above all else. My centerfielder would have a minimum of 70 range, even if he was just a marginal hitter. A lot of people get too focused on the overall defensive rating (which is important), but "range" is more important than "error". I'd much rather have a guy with super range and average error than the other way around. Why? Because the average "error" guy might make a few more errors, but he's going to get to a ton of more balls that would be base hits for the guy with average range. So "range" is extremely important at CF and RF. Not so much at LF, but I would still want to have a guy with decent range there if possible.

I concur 100%.
I wasn't all that committed to my Rockies start ups. I fiddle with almost every team at one point or another each version just to see what I *would* do with the rosters/finances available. I usually abort when the next team piques my interest more. Like a smorgasbord.
Then about this time of year, maybe a little earlier, I start 2 or 3 'keeper' saves, the last one being the Blue Jays.
But with the Rockies, in admittedly very small sample sizes, the more I improved the defence - especially up the middle - the less the team hit. Then a visitor would come in with 3 statues in the OF and a 40-rated C and another statue at 1B and mash HR's for 3-4 games at Coors Field
while suffering no consequences for their inability to actually move, let alone show range or handle a pitching staff.
Meanwhile our GB pitchers couldn't keep the ball out of the thin air. I think they wanted to show off the range of their new teammates in the OF, who couldn't hit a lick. But those guys kept running into the wall while the ball sailed over it.
That's the extent of my couple of Rockies attempts over the past 5 versions.

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by LittleHurt81

From that table on FG I feel better about getting rid of flyball pitchers whenever possible. Seems Coors' FB/HR rate is insanely high.

What I need to really pull out is what pitch mix has success in our park.

I signed Marcus Stroman in 21/22 offseason (extreme groundball pitcher in the game) and that has turned out to mostly be a disaster... Looking at his pitch ratings I can see why now. Nothing about a 55 in any of his 5 pitches

changeups are notorious flyball pitches, if not mistaken... maybe pitches that often 'hang' and get crushed? bad cb and chup get smoked harder than other pitches, i'd assume.

So, quality likely factor too... good enough 'flyball' pitch and it'll play well anywhere. I wouldn't worry about the >max guys' repertoire as much, for example.

real world data on this stuff is likely to translate. my above inferences are not from sound sources, lol... top of my head guesstimations.

when in doubt, get a staff of Knuckleballers, LOL.


Range is going to vary by position... bigger piece of puzzle to CF than RF.... LF more than RF etc... SS more than other infielders. you can see this by playing with editory and comissioner mode on. turn on 100% accurte scouting and see resulting defense, if you don't want to convert from 1-200 to your scale.

a SS with great range and 1/2 scale error may not be best, but i typically weigh range more highly... but for SS i have a minimum error rating goal too. At 1b, probably more important to avoid errors...RF my be better to value arm str and avoid erors... gonna need some trial and error and data collection beyond the human eye's capability to know.

A groundball pitcher with meh pitches is going to get hammered. it's a smaller piece of pie thn the primary pitcher ratings. use that within a tier of quality when choosing between more thn one option, but don't pick a lower tier talent just cause they have a higher GB% rate.

look for a dominant pitch and highest overall stuff rating.. 50-60mov minimum... ~50 control minimum... if a vet shows these things don't cause problems with a history of results proving it, no problem to make exceptions.

start looking at babip ranking of pitchers at end of a season.. see if you find any correlation to pitches thrown or highest rated pitch etc... What pitches do well consistently in your league... wht pitches or overall stuff with seemingly lower ratings do well in your league -- more than 1 year flash in pans. Make some inferences. See if it works out.


I still think you rleagues BABip might be elevated... start checking result at end of year. May need to adjust some LTM. Up above .332 is 15th in league... that's relly high for middle of the pack. of couse, i didn't look at how many games were played.

[LittleHurt81]

Originally Posted by Dave Stieb II

I try a lot of different standard start ups with a lot of different teams in each version. It's just something I like to do - assessing the rosters and finances, making what *should be* upgrades and building a plan for moving forward.
Then I get bored about 40 games into the first season and it's on to the next team. LOL
I only mention that because I got to tell you, Colorado has always been frustrating for me. The combination of real life factors to weigh and balance is difficult enough but ootp seems to go to an extreme, even when you think you've acquired the appropriate talent.
My advice:
If you're a true blue Rockies fan, hang in there, best of luck trying to figure out the best recipe/combination and hopefully things will come together for you moving forward.
If you're not a diehard Rockies fan......get out as fast as you can and start a new save with a team in a normal environment.

I decided on the Rockies because I live in Denver Area and hate their whole front office setup... Seeing if I could do better. AND no.

But you're right there are some real life factors and it seems the game being tipped too heavily towards defense that really makes it hard to win consistently. I am going to start at catcher and then work my way through the middle of the diamond. I think I have found a solution in Frelick (my '21 first rounder) in CF. Adames is just having a bad year at short, his ZR/Def Eff were much better in '21 & '22

Overall I view this as a challenge, but there are many days I want to cut and run...